Raacerx's (Max@034) 034 Tuned GT28R Elims to Single PT6262 Turbo

[Tarmac]

I know this is not a TiAL thread (just a quick one) someone told me the TiAL S605 is old technology with the old journal bearings & consequently outdated. You guys know if this is true or not? I noted 034 must have just put the TiAL S605 on there website.

[gearhead1186]

I know this is not a TiAL thread (just a quick one) someone told me the TiAL S605 is old technology with the old journal bearings & consequently outdated. You guys know if this is true or not?

yea i remember somebody flamed on journal bearings for being outdated. it was a pretty ignorant statement. yes, it is an older and more simple technology but I feel if a turbo is run in its efficiency range, a turbo being ball bearing should not be a deciding factor. I remember reading somewhere that a import company's full frame journal turbos out spooled comparable BB competitors. this is obviously out of the norm but just goes to show you that journal bearings are not "outdated." its also a hell of a lot cheaper to rebuild a journal bearing turbo.

back on topic... can you give us any hints on ur turbo choice?

[Raacerx]

yea i remember somebody flamed on journal bearings for being outdated. it was a pretty ignorant statement. yes, it is an older and more simple technology but I feel if a turbo is run in its efficiency range, a turbo being ball bearing should not be a deciding factor. I remember reading somewhere that a import company's full frame journal turbos out spooled comparable BB competitors. this is obviously out of the norm but just goes to show you that journal bearings are not "outdated." its also a hell of a lot cheaper to rebuild a journal bearing turbo.

back on topic... can you give us any hints on ur turbo choice?

I updated the 1st page of the thread with the turbos I will be running. I'm no good at keeping secrets.

As far as the whole Journal Vs. Ball Bearing, I agree with gearhead. The 605 is a journal bearing... but calling the 605 old technology is pretty ignorant indeed. It has billet wheels, far nicer oil/boost/coolant lines, and a high level of detail in the housing. I don't call that old technology, and they spool faster the a comparable GT turbo (but this is probably due to the wheels, not the CHRA).

Journal bearings are also easier to rebuild, and like gearhead said, as long as the turbo is run in its efficiency range and treated well, it should last just as long. You run a K04 @ 24psi, or an RS6 at 25+psi, and you will eventually have problems. The Tial 605 is designed to run to 30psi, so I don't think there is going to be any premature wear problems like the other associated journal bearing turbos.

People have been using journal bearings for years, without issues. Ball bearing theoretically offers smoother operation and a bit better reliability; I've yet to see it on a comparable turbo. Ball bearing to me isn't new technology; ceramic bearing is though, like that which Precision Turbo uses.

Remember... a K04 is designed to run between 8-16 psi depending on the particular model. An RS6 runs under 10psi under normal operating. A GT or Tial is designed to withstand much higher performance, regardless of what the CHRA is made from.

[Tarmac]

Max, looking a your list of goodies I see you have the adjustable rear sway bar links.
I’ve been hunting around for ages. Can you point me to a supplier for the CPP adjustable sway bar links? I did a cut & past but no luck.
Cheers;-)

[gearhead1186]

28R huh? nice. when u getting them? internal WGs with custom manifold or external WGs?

[Raacerx]

28R huh? nice. when u getting them? internal WGs with custom manifold or external WGs?

2560 Eliminators, ported stock manifolds, internal WG. They'll be here in the next few weeks if things go well.


I got the CPP end links from a buddy. CPP is dead. Sorry.

[gearhead1186]

2560 Eliminators, ported stock manifolds, internal WG. They'll be here in the next few weeks if things go well.


I got the CPP end links from a buddy. CPP is dead. Sorry.

nice congrats man. light at the end of the tunnel. ill be waiting for pics.

[Raacerx]

nice congrats man. light at the end of the tunnel. ill be waiting for pics.

congratulate me when they are in my possession LOL!

[97B518TQM]

I hope the turbo lag is not too bad, Max. One thing I hate is turbo lag, the reason I sold my A4 with the Gt2871R on it, I hated waiting for it to spool at 3600 rpm. It shouldn't be too bad with the GT25s though but it will be noticeable I bet.

[GarbatyA4]

I hope the turbo lag is not too bad, Max. One thing I hate is turbo lag, the reason I sold my A4 with the Gt2871R on it, I hated waiting for it to spool at 3600 rpm. It shouldn't be too bad with the GT25s though but it will be noticeable I bet.

I had a GT2871R on my A4. I know what you mean. Sucks balls.

My buddy is doing the Agtronic GT2554's right now. I'll let you know the difference. aka. when the fun starts.

[Smitherines]

2560 Eliminators, ported stock manifolds, internal WG. They'll be here in the next few weeks if things go well.


I got the CPP end links from a buddy. CPP is dead. Sorry.

Awesome bro, keep us updated on the progress. Keep your spirits up!

[Smitherines]

2560 Eliminators, ported stock manifolds, internal WG. They'll be here in the next few weeks if things go well.


I got the CPP end links from a buddy. CPP is dead. Sorry.

Awesome bro, keep us updated on the progress. Keep your spirits up!

[awd2ks4]

I hope the turbo lag is not too bad, Max. One thing I hate is turbo lag, the reason I sold my A4 with the Gt2871R on it, I hated waiting for it to spool at 3600 rpm. It shouldn't be too bad with the GT25s though but it will be noticeable I bet.

yeah you better watch out doing low 2k rpm pulls with ko3 cars lol

[Tarmac]

2560 Eliminators, ported stock manifolds, internal WG. They'll be here in the next few weeks if things go well.


I got the CPP end links from a buddy. CPP is dead. Sorry.

Got in touch with your buddy for the CPP rear sway bar links, Cheers!!

At one point I was seriously looking at the Tial 605 Kit but now you got me think about the 2560r Eliminators........Interesting set up, will need to research about this lag everyone’s chatting on about and it's true they are a direct fit to stock exhaust manifold & 034 3"Dp's?

[Raacerx]

Got in touch with your buddy for the CPP rear sway bar links, Cheers!!

At one point I was seriously looking at the Tial 605 Kit but now you got me think about the 2560r Eliminators........Interesting set up, will need to research about this lag everyone’s chatting on about and it's true they are a direct fit to stock exhaust manifold & 034 3"Dp's?

The only reason I went with the Eliminators is because I am not willing to wait months indefinitely for Tial to get their shit together. I'd rather have 605, as they spool faster and can flow more. It is a turbo designed specifically for maxing out a stock motor, and still having some left over for when you build it. The Eliminators are more expensive and the oil lines/hardware is not as nice.

I've just waited too long to let Tial dick me around. ATP ain't the fastest company either, but supposedly the turbos will be done next week. We will see.

[Raacerx]

There is rumor that the turbos might be done early this coming week. Good god do I have my fingers crossed. This should coincide nicely with the heads finishing.

Picked up a JHM solid shifter this week, along with this...

[Tarmac]

The only reason I went with the Eliminators is because I am not willing to wait months indefinitely for Tial to get their shit together. I'd rather have 605, as they spool faster and can flow more. It is a turbo designed specifically for maxing out a stock motor, and still having some left over for when you build it. The Eliminators are more expensive and the oil lines/hardware is not as nice.

I've just waited too long to let Tial dick me around. ATP ain't the fastest company either, but supposedly the turbos will be done next week. We will see.

What about EPL I suppose they have the TiAL 605 in stock, I think or maybe not?

[awd2ks4]

Its pretty rare for someone to stock a turbo kit on the shelf for this car. Seems like they dont want the extra overhead in case it doesnt sell. Unless someone just ordered a kit and backed out last second and you luck out on it. Plus they are just getting it direct, thats why its always good to go to the source and cut out the middle man.

[michael66899]

Looks good buddy where'd you get that carbon hood at? I'm going to pick one up in the next couple weeks as well and get it painted as theres a nice big dent in mine from the previous owner.

[awd2ks4]

Looks good buddy where'd you get that carbon hood at? I'm going to pick one up in the next couple weeks as well and get it painted as theres a nice big dent in mine from the previous owner.

he got it from a friend i have the same hood also and i love it

[Raacerx]

EPL doesn't have any Tial 605, just like no one else has any 605 in stock. 770's are ready to go.

Some pics from last weekend. H-sport rear sway, CPP end links, 034Motorsport Billet Diff Crossmember, Track Density bushings for the crossmember, and brake ducts. Forgot to take pics of Bosch 044 install.





Brake Ducts

[Tarmac]

I’ve got the same Brake Duct Plates from PMS. Appreciate if you can, will be interesting to see how you route the ducting hose, I haven’t had time to install mine yet.

[Raacerx]

I’ve got the same Brake Duct Plates from PMS. Appreciate if you can, will be interesting to see how you route the ducting hose, I haven’t had time to install mine yet.

Easiest way I see if you keep the side mount intercoolers, is to modify an aluminum skidplate with airpickups.



Update: There is a slim possibility I will have everything (turbos and heads) ready to install this weekend. Fingers are freakin crossed, I can assure that! I have every little nut, bolt, gasket, etc and I am just itching to get everything back together.

[97B518TQM]

Oh damn, Max. Even I am excited about this, I can only imagine your excitement. Don't forget to stock up on oil and other fluids before the weekend, they are hard to find on weekends, except the oil :)
I have prefred pricing for Amsoil oil for about $8 per quart for the 5w-40 European formula oil if you ever need some.

[joe@vwvortex]

Easiest way I see if you keep the side mount intercoolers, is to modify an aluminum skidplate with airpickups.

I have the same brake duct plates and spent about an hour or so last week trying different hose routing. My plan would be to come in through the inside part of the wheel well - through the bottom part of the liner and then add a 2.5" diameter hose NACA duct on the bottom of the belly pan. I THINK that tire clearance on full lock won't be an issue and it results in a very short amount of hose ducting. That all being said - i'm open to other ideas as well.

[awd2ks4]

You guys want the pickups on the bottom of the car? seems alot harder to do then run a duct to the lower grille area

[joe@vwvortex]

You guys want the pickups on the bottom of the car? seems alot harder to do then run a duct to the lower grille area

If you can show me how it is possible with SMIC's - i'd do it in a heartbeat. There is no room at all to get the 2.5" hose through past the SMIC to the front grill area and I only have RS4 SMIC's. There are what I believe to be AC hoses and a canister below the bottom of and behind the SMIC on the passenger side. If they were removed you might have a shot. Might be able to get them through on the inside top of the SMIC closer to the radiator - but I would have had to remove my SMIC shroud to even try it, but from looking at it - it wasn't going to fit.

[dla79]

EPL doesn't have any Tial 605, just like no one else has any 605 in stock. 770's are ready to go.

Some pics from last weekend. H-sport rear sway, CPP end links, 034Motorsport Billet Diff Crossmember, Track Density bushings for the crossmember, and brake ducts. Forgot to take pics of Bosch 044 install.





Brake Ducts

Wouldn't this design just be better if you made it like a scoop that would grab air coming from those wheel well vents??? It seems like this is not really the best design and this is how I have seen them do it on race cars with a simple scoop...... Getting that hose through their will be a PITA with the SMICS as Joe said.

[joe@vwvortex]

Wouldn't this design just be better if you made it like a scoop that would grab air coming from those wheel well vents??? It seems like this is not really the best design and this is how I have seen them do it on race cars with a simple scoop...... Getting that hose through their will be a PITA with the SMICS as Joe said.

You can retrofit the Phaeton or A8 brake cooling ducts which are just that, a big scoop. However - these types of ducts generally concentrate more colder air onto the brake disc and are more effective in cooling. This is why I wanted to give this a shot.

[awd2ks4]

If you can show me how it is possible with SMIC's - i'd do it in a heartbeat. There is no room at all to get the 2.5" hose through past the SMIC to the front grill area and I only have RS4 SMIC's. There are what I believe to be AC hoses and a canister below the bottom of and behind the SMIC on the passenger side. If they were removed you might have a shot. Might be able to get them through on the inside top of the SMIC closer to the radiator - but I would have had to remove my SMIC shroud to even try it, but from looking at it - it wasn't going to fit.

HAHAHAHA guess im glad i went with my front mount

[awd2ks4]

Wouldn't this design just be better if you made it like a scoop that would grab air coming from those wheel well vents??? It seems like this is not really the best design and this is how I have seen them do it on race cars with a simple scoop...... Getting that hose through their will be a PITA with the SMICS as Joe said.

Ive seen multiple race cars and thats how they do it too, over course others will do differently. But i think this design is great it will not only cool the rotor but it will also cool the caliper as well and the fluid in it. And if you have cross drilled rotors the air will be pushing through the vent holes on the rotor which will cool your brakes ALOT.

[joe@vwvortex]

Ive seen multiple race cars and thats how they do it too, over course others will do differently. But i think this design is great it will not only cool the rotor but it will also cool the caliper as well and the fluid in it. And if you have cross drilled rotors the air will be pushing through the vent holes on the rotor which will cool your brakes ALOT.

Here's a couple pics of the Phaeton/A8 setup on an A6 - same as an S4. If I can't find a suitable routing for the hoses - I may just opt for this.

[Raacerx]

Wouldn't this design just be better if you made it like a scoop that would grab air coming from those wheel well vents??? It seems like this is not really the best design and this is how I have seen them do it on race cars with a simple scoop...... Getting that hose through their will be a PITA with the SMICS as Joe said.

You see vents like you describe primarily on open wheel cars... On normal GT class and below production body style cars, you see many many many many cars with hose fed systems. People often use (which was new info to me) brake duct cooler fans to help draw air onto the brakes even when speeds are low. What you describe is also more expensive. I am fully willing to modify an aluminum under-body pan in order to channel in air. I believe this will work far better then a simple air catch at the inside of the wheel. This setup cost me $75, and won't cost me anything to modify. If you look at the Stasis race car's and other B5 S4 Champion car, you see they take the air from the belly pan as well, except they can run a splitter which allows more space. This is just a modification of that principle.


Anyways, I could care less about my brake ducts. My ATP GT2560R Eliminators are in my official possession, along with my rebuilt 2.8L heads with Supertech inconel exhaust valves. The heads look great, the turbos look great. I am putting together as much as I can this weekend.

Never thought I'd see this day. Next step? First start...

[97B518TQM]

I wouldn't be surprised if you get it all done this weekend, Max. You probably won't sleep until you start the car :). Give me a call if you need a hand.

[dla79]

You see vents like you describe primarily on open wheel cars... On normal GT class and below production body style cars, you see many many many many cars with hose fed systems. People often use (which was new info to me) brake duct cooler fans to help draw air onto the brakes even when speeds are low. What you describe is also more expensive. I am fully willing to modify an aluminum under-body pan in order to channel in air. I believe this will work far better then a simple air catch at the inside of the wheel. This setup cost me $75, and won't cost me anything to modify. If you look at the Stasis race car's and other B5 S4 Champion car, you see they take the air from the belly pan as well, except they can run a splitter which allows more space. This is just a modification of that principle.


Anyways, I could care less about my brake ducts. My ATP GT2560R Eliminators are in my official possession, along with my rebuilt 2.8L heads with Supertech inconel exhaust valves. The heads look great, the turbos look great. I am putting together as much as I can this weekend.

Never thought I'd see this day. Next step? First start...

Just make sure you get a base tune on there before you go starting it up and putzing around ;-)

[joe@vwvortex]

Didn't mean to hijack your thread - but I'm still interested in where you put the brake ducts :-)

[Raacerx]

[Spooled1.8]

Nice, all your stuff is here. get to work and keep us updated

[97B518TQM]

Wow, that actuator is actually welded onto the housing. Interesting.

Looking good, Max. I hope you are halfway done by now. You didn't sleep last night instead of putting it together, right? :)

[awd2ks4]

Wow, that actuator is actually welded onto the housing. Interesting.

The actuator isnt welded on, its bolted to the bracket. Saw these last night cant wait to see them under some high boost