Cold Startup Ringing/Rattling Noise - Sticky!

[tdimaxima]

Hey guys, Im still confused what problem if any I have. When I start the car, even if its in the garage, it makes a whining noise as long as the RPM's are above normal warm idle. Soon as the RPM's drop, its quiet. It will always last the duration of the RPMS above idle. Definately not a rattle. Any thoughts?

[jhmotard]

the whining noise could just be the straight cut gearset to drive the a/c compressor, this is a normal noise with any straight cut gears.

OR

could be your serpentine belt tensioner/idler pulley going bad. this requires you to remove the bumper but since its off you should replace the belt/tensioner/idler pulley and you could also replace the snub mount($30) and possibly the lightened flywheel from JHM

could you post a video???

[tdimaxima]

It sounds exactly like that youtube video of the guy complaining about the rattle (which I heard briefly) I assume he is complaining about rattle and not the whine.

[tdimaxima]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=xAR4CeXjDTg

I dont have rattle, just the whine you hear.... I guess she normal. Thanks.

[jhmotard]

Yup normal.

[c13h18n2]

I just bought an '04. It makes the noise. 85k miles.

Just in this thread, I've noticed people mentioning that the noise went away after adding lucas or just changing the oil. I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and guess that perhaps the level of viscosity of the new oil and especially those engine saver additives results in a much slower flow back down after the engine is shut off (See: definition of viscosity). Therefore, during the brief period of time when the oil is being broken in, it remains in the motor longer and the oil pump doesn't have to make a racket working over time to pump oil up as Audi essentially described it. Also, the nature of the noise (being that it's coming from the oil pump (assuming that's true)) kinda reminds me of a motor running without a prime or whatever. Like a motor that requires a work load to keep it running smoothly and from over revving. Does oil drain from the pump?

F.Y.I. The concept of a break in period for motor oil which I previously insinuated is based on nothing except my own imagination and speculation. Also, I only read the first three pages of this thread. If someone else already posted this same hypothesis; I am sorry for being redundant.

[SquiddyB6S4]

I just bought an '04. It makes the noise. 85k miles.

Just in this thread, I've noticed people mentioning that the noise went away after adding lucas or just changing the oil. I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and guess that perhaps the level of viscosity of the new oil and especially those engine saver additives results in a much slower flow back down after the engine is shut off (See: definition of viscosity). Therefore, during the brief period of time when the oil is being broken in, it remains in the motor longer and the oil pump doesn't have to make a racket working over time to pump oil up as Audi essentially described it. Also, the nature of the noise (being that it's coming from the oil pump (assuming that's true)) kinda reminds me of a motor running without a prime or whatever. Like a motor that requires a work load to keep it running smoothly and from over revving. Does oil drain from the pump?

F.Y.I. The concept of a break in period for motor oil which I previously insinuated is based on nothing except my own imagination and speculation. Also, I only read the first three pages of this thread. If someone else already posted this same hypothesis; I am sorry for being redundant.

I'm surprised that in the first three pages, nobody said that the real culprit here is the cam adjusters and cam chain tensioners requiring oil pressure to operate, and so the engine has to run for a few seconds to build the pressure they need and drive out the air in them.

Also, PLEASE do not add Lucas or any other "engine saver additives" (read: sarcastic as all hell) to your engine. The big oil companies spend BILLIONS of dollars on R&D. If it was really better, they'd have that stuff in their oil already. It's not better.

[c13h18n2]

I'm surprised that in the first three pages, nobody said that the real culprit here is the cam adjusters and cam chain tensioners requiring oil pressure to operate, and so the engine has to run for a few seconds to build the pressure they need and drive out the air in them.

Isn't that basically Audi's explanation?

Also, PLEASE do not add Lucas or any other "engine saver additives" (read: sarcastic as all hell) to your engine. The big oil companies spend BILLIONS of dollars on R&D. If it was really better, they'd have that stuff in their oil already. It's not better.

I pretty much completely agree. Same with tire siping imo. If it was better, tires would just come siped already from the manufacturer. I believe it could improve traction but not that it improves tire life by reducing heat. In fact, I bet it reduces tire life.

[SquiddyB6S4]

Isn't that basically Audi's explanation?

I don't think Audi has an official explanation other than "it's normal". But I can't imagine anything else; at least, nothing else that I can think of makes any sense.

[mimalik]

Hi Guys,
Please look at the video and suggest possible solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBxoPelQC9w

Car: Audi A4 B6 with Engine code ALT
Milage: 88k
History: Rattle noise started happening after I got 90K service from Audi, new oil Castrol SLXiii 5W30 was put in the car and software was updated at the time of service.
Cam Chain and Tensioner already replaced but it doesn't make any difference. I changed the oil again from 5W30 to 5W40 but still the noise is there.

I've been told that it may be because Oil Pick up screen is blocked - but I am not convinced because car is not indicating any low Oil Pressure situation. I was also told that it could be because of Cam Adjuster but following TSB is saying otherwise:

Technical Service Bulletin Transaction No.: 2010294/5
Rattle/knocking noise from camshaft adjuster at engine start
Release date: Nov 21, 2008
....
Service
Do not replace the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) for a noise concern as described above.
Replacing the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) will not eliminate this noise.

Can anybody suggest potential solution to this problem? I read something about doing something with the software to sort out the issue, does anybody had any success with that?

[Kenji]

2004 S4 with 89,450 miles.

Recently it has been having a stumble or miss without engine codes. I am not sure what it is yet, but will repost with details, I think it is related to the above mentioned. Last night on a slightly higher than speed limit drive for about 20 mins, the car begun to stumble for the duration of the night and has excessive carbon build up one the drivers side tail pipe only...

[Renga]

Rattle noise gone after oilchange.

S4 -06 80000 km

From the 4.2-Liter V8-5V Engine Deisign and Function Self study .pdf
http://152.66.93.29/audi/download/vw...V%20Design.pdf

"Engine Start
The adjusting piston is locked until
sufficient oil pressure has built up. This
prevents vibrations in the chain drive and,
therefore, noise generation."

[mlittleton]

Great thread. I'm calling my Audi dealer to check into TSB 2017369/3 tomorrow.

[maskinut]

2004 b6 made rattling noise since 45k range, probably even before. Dealership kept telling me it was normal. Car is at 110k now and I have been having a hard time selling it as no one wants to buy a car that makes that noise. Now, i am getting a blinking CEL and dealer is suggesting cam adjuster replacement to the tune of 3500. Not sure if they are related but this noise is basically a resale KILLER and is going to prevent me from getting anything remotely close to blue book.

crazy to think that my best option is to trade it in on a new S4, something I can't believe I would consider after listening to the b6 engine slap around for the last 6 years. Meh. Best part was when the dealer once tried to charge me $100 box to diagnose the noise as normal. The car was in for an oil change anyway and I said, did you need to start the car to drive it in for the change? A: yes. great then you didn't need to diagnose anything to tell me it sounded normal on startup.


Aside form this major problem, it's been a great car. Just wish I could sell if for even half bluebook so I could get a new one. Decisions.... to fix or not to fix.

[SquiddyB6S4]

Hey, you got 100k miles out of her. $3500 sounds low, honestly (they should be doing a full timing set change, since other parts may fail soon, like chain tensioners). But for probably $6k-$8k, you'll likely have another 100k miles out of her. Or you could spend $50k on a new S4 and get another 100k miles, and sell yours for what, $10k?. The new S4 isn't $32k better than the one you have. ($50k-$10k-$8k=$32k) Most of the rest of the car is pretty good at going the distance. I say keep it and love it some more. Big engines in small, practical, non-flashy cars with six-speed manuals were rare in 2004, and seem to be going extinct.

[mlittleton]

Ok so a few days ago I heard for the first time the rattling noise during cold start. This also coincided with a low oil warning. I added about 1/2 a quart then started her back up, still got the rattle/clank etc. Added the rest of the quart, checked dipstick and level was good. Started the next day and still got the rattle/clank. Concern rises a bit. Started it about 5 or 6 more times before heading to the dealer today to get an oil change and ECU flash from TSB 2017369/3. None of these starts produced the rattle/clank that they had before giving me the impression my issue may have just been that the engine is VERY picky about being even a little low on oil (not much of a surprise here).

After discussing at length with my service advisor and mechanic at Jim Ellis Audi in Marietta, they said this TSB does not apply to my ECU/Engine Model. I asked if there were any ECU updates for my model S4 and they said no. Interesting. No noises yet after my oil change and I confirmed they use manufacturer recommended Castrol 5W-40 Synthetic. I'll report back if I start to hear the noise again.

p.s. It was also pure torture while sitting in the waiting room right next to the showroom seeing all the beautiful new Audi's while waiting. I love the A3's, love the Q5's, Love the S5's, Love the new S4's and I won't even mention the 170k R8 that just made me drool with it's v10 and CF trim abound. Mmmmm.... Even so, I got quite a few compliments from the service guys on my ol' 2006. They still love the v8!

[maskinut]

I expect a bit more out of a 55k car. That next 100k will cost 30k to keep running if the first 100k maintenance and repair history is any guide. On the positive, 70-110k had been pretty uneventful)

[b spot]

Hi Guys,
Please look at the video and suggest possible solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBxoPelQC9w

Car: Audi A4 B6 with Engine code ALT
Milage: 88k
History: Rattle noise started happening after I got 90K service from Audi, new oil Castrol SLXiii 5W30 was put in the car and software was updated at the time of service.
Cam Chain and Tensioner already replaced but it doesn't make any difference. I changed the oil again from 5W30 to 5W40 but still the noise is there.

I've been told that it may be because Oil Pick up screen is blocked - but I am not convinced because car is not indicating any low Oil Pressure situation. I was also told that it could be because of Cam Adjuster but following TSB is saying otherwise:

Technical Service Bulletin Transaction No.: 2010294/5
Rattle/knocking noise from camshaft adjuster at engine start
Release date: Nov 21, 2008
....
Service
Do not replace the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) for a noise concern as described above.
Replacing the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) will not eliminate this noise.

Can anybody suggest potential solution to this problem? I read something about doing something with the software to sort out the issue, does anybody had any success with that?

Anyone had any luck with this? Before I drop $156 trying it I'm curious if there is any odds of this helping.

PS I hate dealers:

"$156 for diagnosis and one hour of labor"
"well can't I just get the flash and see if it works?"
"We need to diagnose first to see if you need it"
"well how about we just flash it and find out after"
"Ok if that's what you want"

[atticus183]

Well, I had this issue too with my 2005 Audi S4. The dealership put in M1 0W-40 which made it worse over time. I did some research and found some people saying Motul fixed this problem. I was a little skeptical that just using a different oil could cure this problem. I bought some Motul Specific 5W-40 and changed my oil. The sound was gone the next day and hasnt reoccured yet. Amazing! So relieved!!!

[S4fun]

08 S4, 42.9K miles, no rattle