GURU's official LS/B5 Quattro Swap for under 5k

[skele4door]

Will speak to mike R about this, for sure it's going to be fuctionnal, the only bug I have is the Rpm...

LSX have a 4 cylinder signal and looking through HPTuners I don't see any easy way to add a modifier and fool it into outputting a 6 cylinder signal. You might look into Dakota Digital's SGI-8. I don't think our gauges use a CAN bus, so it should be what you'll need.

BTW, I forgot to mention that you might want to swap some upgraded rod bolts and oil pump into your engine before you drop it in. The stock oil pumps have been known to randomly fail and the rod bolts are pretty marginal when you start making some decent power.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd127.htm

[GURUMAN]

LSX have a 4 cylinder signal and looking through HPTuners I don't see any easy way to add a modifier and fool it into outputting a 6 cylinder signal. You might look into Dakota Digital's SGI-8. I don't think our gauges use a CAN bus, so it should be what you'll need.

BTW, I forgot to mention that you might want to swap some upgraded rod bolts and oil pump into your engine before you drop it in. The stock oil pumps have been known to randomly fail and the rod bolts are pretty marginal when you start making some decent power.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd127.htm

I'm putting Mahle pistons and scat rods for not even 1000$

Prices for the Ls is ridiculous...

[gearhead1186]

I vouch for mike, he grew up on American muscle, and he has built and is currently building some pretty sick Domestic cars/motors. Dude has a pretty impressive stable IMHO.

thanks for the kinda words!!

getting a parts car is a pretty good idea. somebody might always buy it to build a dragster or as a cheaper alternative to repairing a wrecked car.

good call picking up picking up rods. american stuff is cheap.

+1 on the oil pump. picking up a new or used ls7 oil pump is a cheap solution.

[TravS4]

Will speak to mike R about this, for sure it's going to be fuctionnal, the only bug I have is the Rpm...

Sweet... Even if everything else works it wouldn't be a huge deal to use an aftermarket tach. There are some pretty sweet ones out there and they'd be even sweeter if they matched the S4 cluster lighting

[wdbdy2000s4]

LSX have a 4 cylinder signal and looking through HPTuners I don't see any easy way to add a modifier and fool it into outputting a 6 cylinder signal. You might look into Dakota Digital's SGI-8. I don't think our gauges use a CAN bus, so it should be what you'll need.

You can recode the cluster to run off a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder signal so you don't need to fux with it in HP tuners.

and I'm pretty sure it's not using CAN bus like the later model cars either.

[Storx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ru4ybNpJ1g

these guys just took the old ecu and used it as the dash operator.. and used the new engines ecu for controlling the engine.. so they have 2 ecu's

[Storx]

Another site has the specs you may want - http://www.audiworld.com/model/

[O2VW1.8T]

Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....

[GURUMAN]

Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....

Kool man, I wanna see as much as this swap as possible...

[O2VW1.8T]

Kool man, I wanna see as much as this swap as possible...

Are you going to use drive by cable or drive by wire..

[GURUMAN]

Are you going to use drive by cable or drive by wire..

By cable because I was already converted with the 034 system...

[Caddy7]

By cable because I was already converted with the 034 system...

Do you know what it takes to convert if you don't have the 034?

[GURUMAN]

Do you know what it takes to convert if you don't have the 034?

Ya just buy a 96-97 Audi A4 pedal and cable, it will fit any regular TB

[Storx]

Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....

Welcome to the light man.. i am sure your pockets will love you for it..

But i really want a Lq4 or lq9

not trying to step on your toes man.. just wandering what you are planning for in the end result???
I have been doing a lot of studying and this is what i have come down to for ideas for the different motors...

LQ4= is nice stock setup if you plan on boosting (9.4:1 300hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap. Common swap on these is to run LQ9 heads with magic cam 4.
Issues: crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LQ9= is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 345hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap before 2003. After 2003-2004 it was switched to an 23gram stronger forged rod w/forged crank so this is the desired year which has been proven to hold over 1000+hp.
Issues: Pre 03 crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LS1= Is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 350hp ALUMINUM 305hp Iron). both are good up to about 500-550hp easily stock without any internal failure. Common swaps are Magic cam 4, LS6 heads and PPE 249.95 set of 8 ebay forged rods. Seen more then 10 built engines running these dirt cheap rods pushing at or over 1000HP at the wheels..on the forums when asking around for info.
Issues: rod bolt failure is common after 550hp on stock internals.

If you want to throw in more stuff go ahead.. this is just a collection of everything i was told by people who built these engines on the forums.. and through threads i read.
Oh ya the difference in weight between the Iron ls1 vs Aluminum ls1 is 73pds when stripped down to block, head, and intake manifold.

[Storx]

Here is my list of mods and engine choice i think i will go with:

LS1 Aluminum 2001-2007 version
PPE Forged Rods w/arp bolts $295.95
Stock 10:1 pistons due to 2001+ have
Texas Speed Magic Stick 4 Camshaft 374.99
LS2 cylinder heads 325.00 pair from GM dealership re-manufactured
EFIlive 549.95
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5uefxVh8U
this is the same setup a guy on corvetteforum did to his 2003 Z06 corvette minus the ls2 cylinder heads and he put down 541rwhp when tuned on EFI..

[skele4door]

Here is my list of mods and engine choice i think i will go with:

LS1 Aluminum 2001-2007 version
PPE Forged Rods w/arp bolts $295.95
Stock 10:1 pistons due to 2001+ have
Texas Speed Magic Stick 4 Camshaft 374.99
LS2 cylinder heads 325.00 pair from GM dealership re-manufactured
EFIlive 549.95
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5uefxVh8U
this is the same setup a guy on corvetteforum did to his 2003 Z06 corvette minus the ls2 cylinder heads and he put down 541rwhp when tuned on EFI..

Yeah I think you might be missing some of his mods. Nobody puts down 541 at the wheels with stock compression, stock LS6 heads and an agressive cam. He's probably got a small shot on there as well.

[O2VW1.8T]

Welcome to the light man.. i am sure your pockets will love you for it..

not trying to step on your toes man.. just wandering what you are planning for in the end result???
I have been doing a lot of studying and this is what i have come down to for ideas for the different motors...

LQ4= is nice stock setup if you plan on boosting (9.4:1 300hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap. Common swap on these is to run LQ9 heads with magic cam 4.
Issues: crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LQ9= is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 345hp Iron). can take up to around 600 crank horsepower easily without crank swap before 2003. After 2003-2004 it was switched to an 23gram stronger forged rod w/forged crank so this is the desired year which has been proven to hold over 1000+hp.
Issues: Pre 03 crank not forged and seems to be the weak point in these engines and head bolts tend to crack under anything more then stock HP...

LS1= Is nice stock setup if you plan to run N/A (10.1:1 350hp ALUMINUM 305hp Iron). both are good up to about 500-550hp easily stock without any internal failure. Common swaps are Magic cam 4, LS6 heads and PPE 249.95 set of 8 ebay forged rods. Seen more then 10 built engines running these dirt cheap rods pushing at or over 1000HP at the wheels..on the forums when asking around for info.
Issues: rod bolt failure is common after 550hp on stock internals.

If you want to throw in more stuff go ahead.. this is just a collection of everything i was told by people who built these engines on the forums.. and through threads i read.
Oh ya the difference in weight between the Iron ls1 vs Aluminum ls1 is 73pds when stripped down to block, head, and intake manifold.

Thanks for the info, i guess i will be looking for a LS1-2 then. I dont know if i'll cheap out on the rods but i might you never know lol... I want to keep it n/a for a bit as adding a turbo will be an extra cost that i dont have. Having 8-900awhp in the audi will make it a insane monster.

[zerb]

what are everyones thoughts on the drivetrain staying together with these motors? i know they handle the power of the s4 motor, obviously GURU can attest to that, but these ls motors are a whole nother animal no?

[wdbdy2000s4]

I think they'll be fine. We very rarely have seen people blow up drivetrains. It's very rare to find an issue with the Diffs caused by anything other then weak mounts or the crossmember, both of which are easily upgraded now. The s4 trans has held pretty much anything thrown at it(with the exception of weak shift collars, but those are also upgradeable). That just leaves axles, but you will need a turbo LS and some hard launches to start snapping those and at the point you can just go solid.

[GURUMAN]

Band for the buck, Lq4 block from silverados, tahos are about 1k

I dont want anybody to think the ls1 or ls6 in anyways represents better alternatives.

Yes for a crate engine, but if you plan to open or turbo the motor, go for the cheapest engine.

[NYEuroTuner]

Ok so im selling my Vr6 and going to buy a LSx, Which ever local deal i find i will buy it. But i really want a Lq4 or lq9. Having 400-500 N/A AWHP is going to be straight monster with the quattro traction....

Giving up so soon? lol

[Storx]

Band for the buck, Lq4 block from silverados, tahos are about 1k

I dont want anybody to think the ls1 or ls6 in anyways represents better alternatives.

Yes for a crate engine, but if you plan to open or turbo the motor, go for the cheapest engine.

yes i know you say that when you look in junk yards. cherck out the forums that trade and build ls1's... you will see peeps selling engines for less then 1k easily. if you go on craigslist and look up vehicles that carry ls1's you will find alot of therm for really cheap. on ls1 forums you see part outs and find blocks and engines really cheap....just have to look....

-99/00 LS1 ALU stock block w/ internals 133k $300 (ls1tech classifieds)

used LSX block needs machining $200 (hardcorels1 classifieds)

used ls1 block $75 (ebay)

new ls1 block $725 (ebay)

you just have to be patient and look.. there out there dirt cheap... heck i ask a few friends i knew from local dragstrip and one of them knew someone with an ls2 block sitting in his garage that i could just have needs bored out with custom pistons because cylinder damage...but told him i take it...if anything i might use it if cant find a good usable block without needing being bored.......

[GURUMAN]

Vr6 swap is a whole other animal...

But you got to rember you start with a 200 hp engine compared to a 350 hp engine for about same price even cheaper...

A question to you is are still able to run a conventionnal fan or you have to switch to a pusher type ?

[djwimbo]

I dont know if i'll cheap out on the rods but i might you never know lol...

We ran SCAT rods in the LS1, and they're strong enough to handle a 150-250 shot of N20.
Through a C5 Z06 trans/diff, we did 425whp with the following.

Mahle 3.905 pistons, SCAT rods, hand ported and milled heads (~12.0:1 CR), G5 cam, lightweight and underdrive pulleys, lightweight valves/retainers/springs, FAST intake (with direct port) ... and the little things, like homebrew tuning (yay HP-Tuners), Z06 coils, better wires, hand ported throttle body, etc.
The time and effort was spent balancing the rotating assembly. My friend did it at the school, and he balanced the crank within 0.03grams of "perfect".

N/A, reliable, and built for like $2200? Yea, that was a fun car.

[GURUMAN]

It's all a matter of preferences, me instead of paying 1500$ + for heads and cam combo, I prefer running 8 to 10psi on stock heads, block and stock ls6 cam

[djwimbo]

that is the beauty of the LSx scene. You can get good stock cams used for like $50.

They don't perform like a good lumpy cam, but they are great for the sleeper sound. The problem with big cams is that they need higher RPM to actually do much, and you lose low end torque.

[GURUMAN]

I think I will wait to se the condition of my engine before deciding to forge it...

People have seen 600whp + on stock lq4's only with ls6 cam and ls6 valvesprings...

These LS engines are crazy, It's seems endless the power thay can achieve...

[Storx]

I think I will wait to se the condition of my engine before deciding to forge it...

People have seen 600whp + on stock lq4's only with ls6 cam and ls6 valvesprings...

These LS engines are crazy, It's seems endless the power thay can achieve...

dont forget the ls2 heads arre the same as the ls6 except the expensive sodium filled valves.. actually i read there better if you plan to run force induction over trhe ls6 because the ls6 heads are hallow and cant hold to the heat.

[GURUMAN]

dont forget the ls2 heads arre the same as the ls6 except the expensive sodium filled valves.. actually i read there better if you plan to run force induction over trhe ls6 because the ls6 heads are hallow and cant hold to the heat.

I will keep my LQ4 317 heads but swap for Z06 springs...

[Storx]

been doing some studying and seems like there are a few different ways to go for the wireharness..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=260386101446

http://ls1wiringharness.com/gpage2.html

here is downloads charts of the complete engine wire harness of the ls1 in an corvette.. i was reading that is practically the exact same diagram on all ls1's except transmission/smog changes which are no big deal...these links were what most of the solstice ls1 guys went off of when doing there swap. apparently from what i read is that our stock audi cluster speed/rpms should work.. but might be just slightly off... but should work...

1999-2004 LS1
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4

[Storx]

I will keep my LQ4 317 heads but swap for Z06 springs...

hey make sure you do some good DIY please for this conversion.. as im going to be going the same route when i get back from being deployed with the military.. haha.. im actually getting sent to Menwith Hill, UK when i get back from this tour.. so i going to be trying out an TDI tranny if i can find one decent.. but im going to taking leave for 30 days when i get back.. throwing an LS engine in my Audi A4 to take to UK so i dont have to worry about shipping parts from US to UK when i get there.. i am probably going to start buying some of the parts and have a friend in the states that i talk to.. start putting the engine together.. and have it ready to be installed.. or better yet.. if i can talk him down on labor.. maybe have him install it and wire her up..

[GURUMAN]

been doing some studying and seems like there are a few different ways to go for the wireharness..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=260386101446

http://ls1wiringharness.com/gpage2.html

here is downloads charts of the complete engine wire harness of the ls1 in an corvette.. i was reading that is practically the exact same diagram on all ls1's except transmission/smog changes which are no big deal...these links were what most of the solstice ls1 guys went off of when doing there swap. apparently from what i read is that our stock audi cluster speed/rpms should work.. but might be just slightly off... but should work...

1999-2004 LS1
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4

Ya but for under 500$, I will order one, I'm not the type of guy that will bust his ass to save a couple of hundreds...

As for DIY, I manage and desing 90% of my projects.
As for welding, assembling engines, electrical work, I leave this work to professionnals.

To much trial and error after all these years

I'm designing my own remote half way turbo system, that acording to my calculations should spool and perform 90% of if It was placed up front.

I decided to spend a max of

engine 700$
custom harness 500$
cam/springs 350$
ls6 intake 400$
Turbo 400$
custom exhaust 500$
wastegate 250$
tune 300$
Adaptor + clutch 1600$

5000$

Stuff I had in car from previous build:
fueling, dual walbro inline + fuel cell
custom intercooler FMIC
tial BOV
Dual widebands + display podi
Boost guage + logger


In theory, I'm good for about same power I had in my previous 30K setup

[GURUMAN]

And I think the best part is this setup will never go over 12 psi !

And off boost, I have around 350hp and 340 ft/lbs witch is a lot more than the 2.7, 3.0 V6,VR6, L5...!

[Storx]

And I think the best part is this setup will never go over 12 psi !

And off boost, I have around 350hp and 340 ft/lbs witch is a lot more than the 2.7, 3.0 V6,VR6, L5...!

i hear you man.. but i want to go with the stock ls1 compression ratio of 10:1 because i would like to have more efficient off boost power.. as well be able to run less boost then you for the same power or similar power while on boost.

I have a good friend who is really good engineer that i worked with back in North Carolina when i was stationed there that is giving me the free ls2 block he has a really sick Turbo Malibu that he drives daily... and there this really cool fuel setup that i always wanted to try on my 2.2L Audi motor.. but never got around to it.. He hasn't updated his site but he recently updated the setup were he is running off 87 octane off boost and E85 when under boost instead of 116. He got the idea from the motorcycle world when they started to come out with 2 sets of injectors for low-end and high-end because once you reach a certain size injector you start to loose low-end power due to the atomization of the injector head when under low cfm rates so the smaller injector is able to be tuned for much better response and power lower in the rpms and off boost....
But after installing it he tuned it to where he could run lower octane like 87/85 when out of boost for normal off boost driving to not spend all the money on 116 octane at the time to drive the car daily to work.. 45 mins as he did from the base for work. then when he wants the power.. he punches it and it switches injectors at certain boost to allow for the power of running race gas every time you want to. he has logged over 100k+ miles off the 87/116 idea and has recently reached over 10k+ on the 87/E85 new setup..he would run E85 full but there is not a normal station that sells it near our town in North Carolina yet.. so he uses it at cheaper alternative race fuel over 116 when he goes out of town and picks up a few tanks of it to bring home...
the E85/116 is used in a 5 gallon fuel cell and lasts about an month to 2 months depending on how often he floors it..

http://turbomalibu.com/dualfuelsystem.htm

[Mrsfourrings]

i hear you man.. but i want to go with the stock ls1 compression ratio of 10:1 because i would like to have more efficient off boost power.. as well be able to run less boost then you for the same power or similar power while on boost.

I have a good friend who is really good engineer that i worked with back in North Carolina when i was stationed there that is giving me the free ls2 block he has a really sick Turbo Malibu that he drives daily... and there this really cool fuel setup that i always wanted to try on my 2.2L Audi motor.. but never got around to it.. He hasn't updated his site but he recently updated the setup were he is running off 87 octane off boost and E85 when under boost instead of 116. He got the idea from the motorcycle world when they started to come out with 2 sets of injectors for low-end and high-end because once you reach a certain size injector you start to loose low-end power due to the atomization of the injector head when under low cfm rates so the smaller injector is able to be tuned for much better response and power lower in the rpms and off boost....
But after installing it he tuned it to where he could run lower octane like 87/85 when out of boost for normal off boost driving to not spend all the money on 116 octane at the time to drive the car daily to work.. 45 mins as he did from the base for work. then when he wants the power.. he punches it and it switches injectors at certain boost to allow for the power of running race gas every time you want to. he has logged over 100k+ miles off the 75/116 idea and has recently reached over 10k+ on the 87/E85 new setup..he would run E85 full but there is not a normal station that sells it near our town in North Carolina yet.. so he uses it at cheaper alternative race fuel over 116 when he goes out of town and picks up a few tanks of it to bring home...
the E85/116 is used in a 5 gallon fuel cell and lasts about an month to 2 months depending on how often he floors it..

http://turbomalibu.com/dualfuelsystem.htm

Wow very interesting reading and implitation on the website!

[speeding-g60]

hmmmmm. (i just wanted to sign that i been here and looked, Dom.)

[NYEuroTuner]

And off boost, I have around 350hp and 340 ft/lbs witch is a lot more than the 2.7, 3.0 V6,VR6, L5...!

True, but how many Cylinders, how much gas is burnt, and how heavy is the LS6 compared to the motors you've just listed?

[GURUMAN]

True, but how many Cylinders, how much gas is burnt, and how heavy is the LS6 compared to the motors you've just listed?

Ls6 is about 40 pounds more than the 2.7... Vr6 I dont know ???

So my Lq4 will be about 100 pounds more than the 2.7...

Plus the turbo will be in the back where the first resonator use to be...

[GURUMAN]

And for the cylinder war, this I really couldnt care less, My other car audi B6 is beeing swapped with a 4.2L at this moment...

Lets just say I'm a fan of the V8 sound.

[NYEuroTuner]

^ lol

How long do you think this project will take you Guru?