FAQ: Official Thread for your Cam Follower(s).

[AWDTURBO]

So, what he is suggesting, based on the experience with cars he's seen go through their shop is that the failure is totally sporadic? I kind of see it in the forum, anyway, based on what folks have reported so far. The environment and conditions, to which these cam followers are subjected are clearly very severe: temperature and pressure differentials vary non-linear, obviously, but still it isn't a rocket science. Hell, maybe it is, so maybe Audi mechanical engineers should consult with NASA on the subject.

He said that Audi should have gave us the same deisgn as the RS4 where they have a roller instead of a cam follower. He said unless Audi releases a new cam follower design there will be no other choise but to keep replacing our cams when they go, eventually.

[Tanner]

Everything by our FP is FAIL.

If you dont have the most updated FP from Audi, yes it CAN ( not saying that it will ) seize.

Seems that the possible solution from H2sport might be ideal. Not sure why audi didn't use the roller cam follower in our 2.0T since every one of their FSI engine including the new 2.0T uses a roller cam follower.

[AWDTURBO]

exactly, its like we are the red headed child that no one cares about.

[Tanner]

exactly, its like we are the red headed child that no one cares about.

LOL. Though I don't think the fixed the intake valves gunking up!

[illegitimus]

what is this seal we speak of?

In this image, #2 next to the infamous cam follower, #6. Just in case, the part number for the seal is 06E 127 248:

[AWDTURBO]

does anyone have a picture of this seal before installing it with the cam follower?

[nramsey]

i check mine at every 5K miles.

I spoke at a audi tech today, a friend, and he said that no matter how much we fight this cam problem, its never going to go away. he gets a avg of 3 cars a week in the dealership with failed cams, fp, all that crap. He said checking you cam follower every 5K miles or 50K miles wont help it. Sucks.

I don't understand this logic. The failure mode from what we've seen is that the cam follower wears through over time, eventually allowing the follower to get messed up to the point where it starts scoring the cam. If the follower wears all the way through the fuel pump starts riding on the cam and REALLY starts ruining stuff.

So how would it not keep things in order if you check the condition of the parts regularly and replace the follower once it starts to show issues? What would the failure mode be at that point? I don't see how the cam can wear if the follower is in top shape. I don't think we've yet seen anyone with a ruined cam and a follower in good condition.

[nramsey]

does anyone have a picture of this seal before installing it with the cam follower?

It's less a "seal" and more a rubber o-ring. You can see it in this pic of my pump. It's the black ring around the housing right near the end where the piston is.

[Tanner]

Though we don't know how the lobe wears out when the cam follower is starting to wear out.... and when it does, it's not exactly smooth. So I'm thinking any imperfection on the cam follower will result in the lobe taking on some wear. However, from folks have posted, the lobe doesn't look to be worn out at all when the cam follower was replaced but at the same time the follower wasn't excessively worn out.

[nramsey]

In this image, #2 next to the infamous cam follower, #6. Just in case, the part number for the seal is 06E 127 248:

I don't think #2 is a seal. It looks like the metal snap ring that's around the base of the follower. It comes with the follower when you buy one from the dealer. There is no seal there other than the rubber o-ring that seals the fuel pump to the head.

[Tanner]

The metal ring is part of the follower. The seal is in fact #2 that goes onto the fuel pump as you mention.

I think in general, seals aren't reused and rather replaced.

[AWDTURBO]

i never replaced the O ring. Is that something to worry about?

[Tanner]

You should be fine.

[AWDTURBO]

Ok.

My cam follower should be coming out within 2 weeks. I have the APR FP ill be sure to upload pics.

[illegitimus]

The metal ring is part of the follower. The seal is in fact #2 that goes onto the fuel pump as you mention.

I think in general, seals aren't reused and rather replaced.

Ok. I wanted to make sure if it comes with the cam follower or it needs to be ordered separately. I am going to pick one up today, so I wanted to make sure and not make multiple trips to the dealer.

[AWDTURBO]

it comes with the cam follower.

I am looking at one now and there is a metal ring around the lip of the cam follower.

[thanatos]

Quick note on the expired cam shaft thing:


> Hello
>
> There is indeed an error on this sticker. It should normally say "None"
> beside the expiry date but it looks like on this tag they have put the
> production date. You can point out the customer that the production
> date line, just above the expiry date, is the same 09.09.2009.
>
> I checked the location and it looks like all the labels for the 09/2009
> have this printing error, the ones from different dates all have no
> expiry date.

In my own defense, the "production date" is labelled as:

1 Stück PP 09.09.2009 ... not exactly as easy to understand as the next line:

Expire date: 2009/09

Good news is, my cam shaft won't have been installed moldy, I guess

[jayphil82]

I don't understand this logic. The failure mode from what we've seen is that the cam follower wears through over time, eventually allowing the follower to get messed up to the point where it starts scoring the cam. If the follower wears all the way through the fuel pump starts riding on the cam and REALLY starts ruining stuff.

So how would it not keep things in order if you check the condition of the parts regularly and replace the follower once it starts to show issues? What would the failure mode be at that point? I don't see how the cam can wear if the follower is in top shape. I don't think we've yet seen anyone with a ruined cam and a follower in good condition.

My question is if the follower wear why would not cam also wear too? It will still be a lot better if the cam follower stay in good shape to minimize the uneven wear of the cam...

Few times I read that our oil get a lot of dillution from fuel / water and is barely effective passed 3k miles. So by doing 3k miles intervals oil changes we should minimize the wear of both the follower and cam.

[illegitimus]

The metal ring is part of the follower. The seal is in fact #2 that goes onto the fuel pump as you mention.

I think in general, seals aren't reused and rather replaced.

Yep. I just ordered one and am going to pick it up with the cam follower from the dealer.

[illegitimus]

My question is if the follower wear why would not cam also wear too? It will still be a lot better if the cam follower stay in good shape to minimize the uneven wear of the cam...

Few time I read the our oil get a lot of dillution from fuel / water and is barely effective passed 3k miles. So by doing 3k miles intervals oil changes we should minimize the wear of both the follower and cam.

To contrast your question, go up on the thread and look at the Facebook link by thanatos, you'll see a very severe wear on the cam lobe. Of course, in his case, it was caused by the pump's piston (not sure what the actual name for the part is) riding on the lobe since the cam follower was eaten right through it. I think, with good synthetic oil you can go to 5k but I won't go any farther than that...

[TheHeggi]

Just did mine yesterday. At approx 70k on an 05.5. LOOKS to be the original hardware, but not sure since I bought it used. All the black coating was worn off the face and there was a small rough spot starting to develop directly where the piston meets the other side. The cam felt smooth, even with a fingernail, but has many fine scratches appearance wise. Looks like I should have done this slightly sooner, but doesn't look like it was too late thankfully. I change oil every 5k and just use Castrol Syntec.

[colt45]

well the dealer called me and my fuel pump died and it damaged my cam and cam follower so I get it all replaced for free. yay dont have to do it myself.

[Tanner]

Pics of the wear?

Just had an idea.... if you have a flickr account, take a pic of your cam follower and post it up here:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1357399@N22/

In fact, anything relevant to the issue can be posted here. Include details along with the pic, such as the mileage, year of car, etc.

I know there's a facebook group for this though frankly I'm not really one to use fb but you can at least link your image on flickr onto facebook.

[AWDTURBO]

What tool do you guys use to take off the Valve?

It seems that i have to replace the valve everytime since i damage the bolt on it because of how weird angled it is?

I am going to pick up a step of these i think:



its a better grip then a 3 sided wrench

[jimrobbington]

Ok, this is awesome. I looked at every picture on that DIY. It will help a lot. I have never checked this, since I have never had any fueling issues. It is so strange how these wear out completely randomly. I am at 95k and am very interested in seeing what mine looks like. Once I get all the correct tools in hand, I will do this, and post pics. I am sure we are all interested in a 95k follower. No idea if it has ever been replaced by previous owner, but since I am stage 2 now, I figure now better than ever, I should get this looked at. Thanks for compiling this info Hyphy! +rep.

[jimrobbington]

Also, dumb question perhaps, it seems you all do this when you do oil change. Is it necessary to change oil when you do this, or do you get bored waiting for oil to drain and do this?

[TheHeggi]

Also, dumb question perhaps, it seems you all do this when you do oil change. Is it necessary to change oil when you do this, or do you get bored waiting for oil to drain and do this?

It's just a good interval to do it at. It really has no relation other than that. I'd say at 95k, you definitely need to check it asap. I had no symptoms other than a low pressure fuel regulation CEL, and that made me paranoid enough. It looks like I changed it just in time, maybe a little later than I should have. At least check for the peace of mind if anything

[jimrobbington]

I have NEVER had any codes EVER for any type of fueling issues. One of the main reasons I pay my shop to do my oil changes, since they will do a free inspection, and VAG for codes. But regardless I will be doing this by this weekend hopefully. Gonna order a new follower just in case, and get all the tools ready. I am interested to see what mine looks like comparatively.

[TheHeggi]

Exactly. When it comes to something that can cost you more than $3,000 if not watched, you're gonna COMPLETELY slap yourself if you could have changed the future with a $50 part. No matter who's fault it is for bad engineering. It just doesn't make sense to be in denial about this issue. Anger and bitterness towards a car manufacturer doesn't get you your engine back

[jimrobbington]

All in all, this isn't that big a deal, if Audi would come out and make it regular maintenance, and every one who owned an audi knew about it, just like changing oil. Not a big deal to check it every now and then, even replace it from time to time. It's just the uninformed people, and the unlucky ones who didn't find out in time that are screwed.

[TheHeggi]

They can't make it regular maintenance since they can't predict an interval it will need replacing. Some have lasted only 15k and some last much longer...if they told you there was a $50 part that needed to be replaced every 10-15k miles, would you be excited about it? Especially for less mechanically inclined people who rely on the dealership for service at $200 a pop?

[jimrobbington]

True...but regardless, everyone who owns an Audi should know about this issue. They should be told by Audi. It is like they are trying to hide this issue, and act like it's some kind of freak occurence every time they have to rape some poor soul for 3-4 grand to fix their problem they should have known how to check for themselves.

On a side note. Is this the exact same process it would take to install the new APR HPFP?

[AWDTURBO]

Yup, all the FP come out the same.

[jimrobbington]

I had no idea that it was so easy! Although, I thought there was danger of the H\high pressure fuel line? It can be compressed up to like 1000 psi, right? My shop told me it can be dangerous dealing with it in that aspect. Is there anything not in the DIY from this thread, that is necessary to do to safely relieve this pressure?

[TheHeggi]

I had no idea that it was so easy! Although, I thought there was danger of the H\high pressure fuel line? It can be compressed up to like 1000 psi, right? My shop told me it can be dangerous dealing with it in that aspect. Is there anything not in the DIY from this thread, that is necessary to do to safely relieve this pressure?

You'll have to take out fuse 28 in the fuse panel. Then run the car until it dies. I cranked a few extra times just for fun. Some gas will leak when you take off the fittings, but I had no spray whatsoever. VERY important though that you do this, as it does build 1500-1600psi. It's not a step you just forget to do...

[jimrobbington]

Right, glad I asked! Then why is there no mention of this in the DIY whatsoever? Very unsafe to not mention this most important fact with a completely thorough 202 pictured DIY!?

Hyphy-you may want to add this small fact in your intro to this thread, so no one cuts their goddamn arm off with a spray of fuel or what not!

[TheHeggi]

There are several DIY's out there, and I think they all cover some sort of pressure relief. The newer pumps have a bleeder valve on them instead. But if there is any up without addressing relieving fuel pressure, it needs to be addressed immediately.

[jimrobbington]

I just clicked on the how to link in the first post of this thread, and it said everything BUT that.

[TheHeggi]

You speak troof sir, that's the one I mostly used, but didn't realize it didn't address the relief since I had read it from other DIYs and searching...maybe someone should make a note somewhere...

[jimrobbington]

I am actually surprised that this hasn't come up from someone else noticing, or getting hurt. I just did a quick search, and that DIY was the first one that came up. I haven't seen another one yet. I will keep looking, and add this fact to them if I notice they don't mention it.