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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Three Rings rzundel's Avatar
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    Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

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    I've heard all the pros and cons about going staggered on the S4. I've concluded that as long as the front and rear diameter are the same, it doesn't matter and won't hurt anything. I personally like the looks of a wider stance from the rear. I would like to hear from all of you with a staggered set up. What I am looking for is your configuration. What size rims, tires, brand of tires, and offsets? Most important, please let me know if you have lowered the car and if you are experiencing any rubbing? I'm looking for the perfect set up. Show me some photo's of your ride.

  2. #2
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Well, I would avoid a staggered wheel setup. The performance characteristics will suffer.

    I would however argue that a staggered offset is fine, as long as the tires are the same size all around.

    I have a staggered offset, which STaSIS designed via Champion wheels.



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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings charliemike's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Definitely agree with staggered offset. I would have bought my V710s that way if they were available.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings rzundel's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by charliemike View Post
    Definitely agree with staggered offset. I would have bought my V710s that way if they were available.
    Do they not make a 9.5 in the 710? That is a nice wheel.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings FastB7S4's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    9.5 is a width, not offset.

    I understand you like the look of staggered wheels/tires, but you don't have a RWD so it is pointless and some people will laugh at you.
    /S4
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings Beelzeebub's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by FastB7S4 View Post
    I understand you like the look of staggered wheels/tires, but you don't have a RWD so it is pointless and some people will laugh at you.
    agreed.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Three Rings fatezero's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    I ran 9.0 in the rear and 8.5 in the front when I had my B6 S4 and it ran fine. As the OP mentioned, as long as the diameter of the front and rear tire are the same it will DO NOTHING to the car.

    I actually run a 9.5 and 8.5 on my B5 S4 now for the past year and it has no issues.

    And you can argue that if you have a B7 S4, the torque bias is to the rear over the front so you need some more rubber in the rear ;o)
    2013 S6 Blk/Blk with GIAC
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  8. #8
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Agreed, however, diameter AND width of the tire need to be similar (otherwise, you will add increased strain, and possibly failure to the center diff). Wheel size is not dependent on offset. Tire width is however, the issue. However, I would not have a rear tire larger than the front, especially if the offset is the same. This will leave your rear wheels out of line with the front and performance would be adversely affected.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatezero View Post
    I ran 9.0 in the rear and 8.5 in the front when I had my B6 S4 and it ran fine. As the OP mentioned, as long as the diameter of the front and rear tire are the same it will DO NOTHING to the car.

    I actually run a 9.5 and 8.5 on my B5 S4 now for the past year and it has no issues.

    And you can argue that if you have a B7 S4, the torque bias is to the rear over the front so you need some more rubber in the rear ;o)
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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Three Rings Phillyb7s4's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Dr. Quattro, I love your car!!

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings fatezero's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    I have had no performance issues and 3 out of 7 Audi's I have owned have had wider rears over the fronts. If anything, it has helped handling on the higher hp cars...

    Also, the center diff is not a "locked diff". It allows for Torque or "strain" as you call it to be greater at one end of the car over the other.

    Now there is a point you are correct, as if you ran 355's in the rear and 195's in the front. That could cause some issues and or some unneeded strain to the center diff and the car will drive like crap.

    But to each their own. No need to buy wider wheels if you are going to worry all the time wondering if it will damage your car.

    I was just pointing out that we run them all the time on B5 S4's and I have yet to hear of a car having issues due to it.
    Last edited by fatezero; 06-14-2009 at 05:54 PM.
    2013 S6 Blk/Blk with GIAC
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Three Rings charliemike's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by FastB7S4 View Post
    9.5 is a width, not offset.

    I understand you like the look of staggered wheels/tires, but you don't have a RWD so it is pointless and some people will laugh at you.
    At least those wheels get driven, unlike staggered sets on FWD Hondas :)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Three Rings Mello's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end



    19x8.5 and 9.5. Lowered w/ H&R CO's. Never had a problem. Would have gotten OZ's or RS4 reps if I cared about what anyone else thought :).

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings rzundel's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    I appreciate everyone's comments. However, I would rather this thread be more about what tire/wheels combinations you are running verses the debate as the whether we should stagger these cars or not. Let's assume we are all in agreement that the front and rear will be the same diameter. The rest is a matter of personal preference. Staggering or not that is.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings rzundel's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by Mello View Post


    19x8.5 and 9.5. Lowered w/ H&R CO's. Never had a problem. Would have gotten OZ's or RS4 reps if I cared about what anyone else thought :).

    What tire sizes are you running?

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bpitz15's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end


    275/30/19 Falken FK452 on a 9.5" wheel. Offset unknown. Dropped on springs


    235/30/19 Falken FK452 on a different 9.5" wheel. Dropped on coils
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Three Rings srsly's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by Bpitz15 View Post

    275/30/19 Falken FK452 on a 9.5" wheel. Offset unknown. Dropped on springs
    sweet
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Three Rings Mello's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by rzundel View Post
    What tire sizes are you running?
    235/35 and 245/35

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Three Rings rzundel's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by Bpitz15 View Post

    275/30/19 Falken FK452 on a 9.5" wheel. Offset unknown. Dropped on springs


    235/30/19 Falken FK452 on a different 9.5" wheel. Dropped on coils

    I love your set up!! What size do you have up front? Who makes your wheel? Do you have spacers? This is exactly what I am looking for!

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings FastB7S4's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    those 275s look almost too wide. kind of like the drag cars with the fat rear tires. the s4 is too narrow and high to pull off that look, IMO.

    /S4
    AWE l Koni l H&R l Hotchkis l VMR l LEDs by fly

  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    bpitz what's your offset in the rear if you don't mind asking?
    cabinkrew.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bpitz15's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by rzundel View Post
    I love your set up!! What size do you have up front? Who makes your wheel? Do you have spacers? This is exactly what I am looking for!
    the first set was 19x 8.5 up front and 9.5 rear
    pictured here. MHT Moxy Neeper Concepts


    2nd/Current Set up is
    19x8.5 et28 with 225/35/19 Falken FK 452 w/ 5mm spacer
    19x9.5 et41 with 235/35/19 Falken FK 452 w/ 5mm spacer
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  22. #22
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bpitz15's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by Banana View Post
    bpitz what's your offset in the rear if you don't mind asking?
    hopefully my last post helps answer your question.
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  23. #23
    Veteran Member Three Rings Bpitz15's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by FastB7S4 View Post
    those 275s look almost too wide. kind of like the drag cars with the fat rear tires. the s4 is too narrow and high to pull off that look, IMO.
    honestly, I loved the look of it in person. The only thing i liked about those chrome wheels is the look of the fat rubbers on it.
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  24. #24
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    You should re-read my post. It is opinion and that opinion considers that staggered wheels "may" lead to damage. Not sure where you assumed that I consider the center diff "locked", but I have owned 4 Audis (one was an Audi 4000S quattro), which had pneumatic locking front and rear diffs; I know the difference between that and an EDL. My point is, "strain" needs to be addressed.

    Obviously, differentials are designed to allow wheels to rotate at different speeds and to transfer power based on available torque and grip. The consideration regarding damage comes into play if there is an excessive difference (side to side and front to rear). I have a staggered offset, in fact my rear wheels are 9.5" and the fronts are 9", however tire size is the same.

    The comment you had about the differentials "allowing" torque to be greater on one end and less on another is true. Differentials "allow" this to take place, however were not designed for a constant allowance, which is the result of staggered setups.

    I agree with you about worrying, and for what it's worth, STaSIS designed my setup, as they know engineering and differential specs/tolerances (thus, I do not worry). I am trying to bring up that "allowances" on a front and rear differential are limited, and should be researched prior to applying methods and suggestions.

    I completely agree that this is opinion, just as car color, engine/suspension/chassis modifications. I personally enjoy the look of my individual staggered offset, so take that for what it is. Readers just need to know that if a select few think offset is neat and or without any worries, they should either reconsider or seek other opinions.

    BTW, on the 3 cars you have run with staggered wheels, how many miles on each? Tracked them (think Laguna Seca, not a straight line)? Just looking for more input.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatezero View Post
    I have had no performance issues and 3 out of 7 Audi's I have owned have had wider rears over the fronts. If anything, it has helped handling on the higher hp cars...

    Also, the center diff is not a "locked diff". It allows for Torque or "strain" as you call it to be greater at one end of the car over the other.

    Now there is a point you are correct, as if you ran 355's in the rear and 195's in the front. That could cause some issues and or some unneeded strain to the center diff and the car will drive like crap.

    But to each their own. No need to buy wider wheels if you are going to worry all the time wondering if it will damage your car.

    I was just pointing out that we run them all the time on B5 S4's and I have yet to hear of a car having issues due to it.
    Co-Founder Four Rings Racers Group
    Driver, Four Rings Racing
    2006 S4 MT6 aka "Bullet"

  25. #25
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillyb7s4 View Post
    Dr. Quattro, I love your car!!
    Thanks broda!

    Here's another one you may like.....(pre clear corners)
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  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings bsrpilot44's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.quattro View Post
    Here's another one you may like.....(pre clear corners)
    Too much gapina

  27. #27
    Registered User Two Rings
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    i run a 19x10 et22 in the rear of my b6 s4 :)

  28. #28
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    the offset is the key. If I went any wider with my rear offset, I'd rub!
    Co-Founder Four Rings Racers Group
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  29. #29
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by bsrpilot44 View Post
    Too much gapina
    Never enough Gapina!
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    2006 S4 MT6 aka "Bullet"

  30. #30
    Registered Member Three Rings
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Torque biasing differential :) Do a quick search on google and find a detailed explanation. After reading that you will understand that TBD will let wheels spin at different speeds as long as there is no slip (ie torque absorbed by wheels is equal between them ) .Thats the difference between a subaru and an audi . A subaru with performance diffs will be like driving a car with limited steering wheel range while an audi with performance or stock diffs will drive effortlesly and the same as oem but with greater grip. The center diff is never locked never always front or always rear . The front and rear are lockable via electronics which is a kind of concession to driveability and security . I say this because it is controlled by ecu via abs wheel sensors, whenever wheel spin gets out of parameters it simply locks the diffs shut . This is by no means soft neither for driving experience or driveline shocks , but its a way of adding extra security. If you were to run tbd front and rear without electronic lock you would be more in controll but when you screw up forget about electronics saving your ass . I have run 18 wheels on one axle and 19 on the other without adverse effects on stability or drivetrain (this was done on a track and it was done because i had run out of 18 inch tires) , the dsc was going crazy so i just turned it off (well as much as possible anyway). I guess that means that staggered setups are possible (that means a wider rear than front right? ) but you would have to consider the fact that it`s not the best solution for performance, this platform was designed with equal tire sizes on all corners so weight is distributed apropriately , diffs are also engineered to work best with that setup , so you would have to realise that staggered setups are only a cosmetic improvement (although beauty is in the eye of the beholder, some like it some do not ) and are not really a performance improvement (unless you have done something to seriously upset the oem setup ).

  31. #31
    Registered User Two Rings
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    19x10 et22


  32. #32
    Veteran Member Three Rings fatezero's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.quattro View Post
    You should re-read my post. It is opinion and that opinion considers that staggered wheels "may" lead to damage. Not sure where you assumed that I consider the center diff "locked", but I have owned 4 Audis (one was an Audi 4000S quattro), which had pneumatic locking front and rear diffs; I know the difference between that and an EDL. My point is, "strain" needs to be addressed.

    Obviously, differentials are designed to allow wheels to rotate at different speeds and to transfer power based on available torque and grip. The consideration regarding damage comes into play if there is an excessive difference (side to side and front to rear). I have a staggered offset, in fact my rear wheels are 9.5" and the fronts are 9", however tire size is the same.

    The comment you had about the differentials "allowing" torque to be greater on one end and less on another is true. Differentials "allow" this to take place, however were not designed for a constant allowance, which is the result of staggered setups.

    I agree with you about worrying, and for what it's worth, STaSIS designed my setup, as they know engineering and differential specs/tolerances (thus, I do not worry). I am trying to bring up that "allowances" on a front and rear differential are limited, and should be researched prior to applying methods and suggestions.

    I completely agree that this is opinion, just as car color, engine/suspension/chassis modifications. I personally enjoy the look of my individual staggered offset, so take that for what it is. Readers just need to know that if a select few think offset is neat and or without any worries, they should either reconsider or seek other opinions.

    BTW, on the 3 cars you have run with staggered wheels, how many miles on each? Tracked them (think Laguna Seca, not a straight line)? Just looking for more input.
    Very good points and great response...

    The car I had the most milage on was a 2001 S4 back in 2002 and 2003. I put about 50K miles on the set up/went through 2 sets of tires. I ran back then the old skool ATS DTM wheels. They were 17X7.5 in the front and 17X8.5 in the rear. I did track that car 3 times. Twice at Willowsprings (big track) and another at Cal Speedway. Again, no issues in handling that I noticed but I did not run the different wheel set ups back-to-back. So, I cannot make a justified opinion that the stock configuration would have handled better.

    But after being on Audi Forums for over the past 7 years, I have yet to meet or hear of anyone having damage to their drivetrain due to staggered wheel/tire widths. They may be out there though? Maybe the guys at JHM or Stasis have seen it?
    2013 S6 Blk/Blk with GIAC
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  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings fly300kts's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    I run a staggered setup for more than 35 000 miles on my Quattro without anu issues

    235/35/19 ET Custom
    265/30/19 ET Custom


  34. #34
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
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    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    You know, I'll see if STaSIS has any input on the differential issue. I've personally never seen any and I've been on the forums since 2000 (I've had my setup for over 18 months). I do think that the possibility of damage is a good discussion point for everyone here.

    I would imagine if there were any excessive wear (outside normal allowance), we may not see it for some time, as the rotating difference is so little, I'd imagine it would take some time to develop issues.


    Quote Originally Posted by fatezero View Post
    Very good points and great response...

    The car I had the most milage on was a 2001 S4 back in 2002 and 2003. I put about 50K miles on the set up/went through 2 sets of tires. I ran back then the old skool ATS DTM wheels. They were 17X7.5 in the front and 17X8.5 in the rear. I did track that car 3 times. Twice at Willowsprings (big track) and another at Cal Speedway. Again, no issues in handling that I noticed but I did not run the different wheel set ups back-to-back. So, I cannot make a justified opinion that the stock configuration would have handled better.

    But after being on Audi Forums for over the past 7 years, I have yet to meet or hear of anyone having damage to their drivetrain due to staggered wheel/tire widths. They may be out there though? Maybe the guys at JHM or Stasis have seen it?
    Co-Founder Four Rings Racers Group
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    2006 S4 MT6 aka "Bullet"

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings channad's Avatar
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    Mammoth Lakes, Ca

    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Dr. Quattro's car is kinda blah!

    j/k! hahaha! What's up dude?! How was Vegas?
    Channa
    ---------------------------
    2012 Q5 - Black | Black | Premium Plus | S-Line | Nav | B & O
    2008 - DTM | Sprint Blue Pearl | Black leather/Alcantara | Navi | CF trim | OEM 18" RS4s

    New DJ Mix!!

    New music!!!

  36. #36
    Registered Member Two Rings Dr.quattro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 25 2008
    AZ Member #
    32355
    My Garage
    2000 VW Jetta GLX, 1963 VW Microbus
    Location
    Northern California

    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Channa!!!! Yeah, What's up? It's probably the blah color!!! ha!

    All is well, and Vegas was an absolute blast. The group really bonded and came together to show the awesome power of similar minded enthusiasts, with one common bond; TO DRIVE!

    FRRG won several trophies, including the "Best Group" trophy, as we were very well represented, and I think we had a great selection of cars. Actually, Maverick took 5th place in the "People's Choice: Audi" category, and I actually took 4th! The drive home was epic....Death Vally to Mono Lake, over Tioga Pass and through Yosemite! Here are a couple links and a few pics for you're enjoyment (kind of a TJ):

    FRRG at Wustefest

    Wustefest love from Motortrend.com








    Quote Originally Posted by channad View Post
    Dr. Quattro's car is kinda blah!

    j/k! hahaha! What's up dude?! How was Vegas?
    Co-Founder Four Rings Racers Group
    Driver, Four Rings Racing
    2006 S4 MT6 aka "Bullet"

  37. #37
    Senior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 21 2007
    AZ Member #
    16614
    My Garage
    08 a4, 02 allroad, 90 Porsche 964
    Location
    baltimore

    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end


    What wheels are those? Specs?

  38. #38
    Senior Member Two Rings OSIKS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 24 2007
    AZ Member #
    17562
    Location
    Bay Area California

    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by AMS autowerks View Post
    19x10 et22

    Damn that looks sick but you HAVE to rub!
    2006.S4.CAB
    Sportechnics Premium 10 2pc Forged by Rays Engineering Staggered: 20x8.5 et37 / 20x9.5 et43/Bilstein PSS9's/LaBree Catback(Click for Video)/RS4 Sway/JHM Short Shifter/WetWorks Custom Lip Spoiler/PremierClearBra/Caractere Front Spolier and Grill/8000K-HIDs

  39. #39
    Veteran Member Four Rings PenguiN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2006
    AZ Member #
    13331
    My Garage
    RR Sport SC-B6S4-Gallardo
    Location
    DC

    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    Quote Originally Posted by FastB7S4 View Post
    9.5 is a width, not offset.

    I understand you like the look of staggered wheels/tires, but you don't have a RWD so it is pointless and some people will laugh at you.
    Why would "some people laugh at you" ... It makes the car look way more aggressive. The car definitely needs it. I guess people laugh at the AWD Lamborghini with staggered wheels . To each his own. I've had staggered wheels ever since I bought this car, and It not only looks better, but it effects nothing.

  40. #40
    Account Terminated Four Rings
    Join Date
    Jun 02 2008
    AZ Member #
    29460
    My Garage
    2007 S4 MT6; B8 A4 2.0T Avant
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada

    Re: Staggered wheels with beefy rear end

    do you work for Stasis? You're easily their biggest promotor on the Audizine B6/7 S4/RS4 forum, even crediting them with making your Champions, Alcons and Ohlins!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.quattro View Post

    I have a staggered offset, which STaSIS designed via Champion wheels.
    __________________________________________________ _____
    2006 S4 MT6 aka "Bullet"
    Blessed by STaSIS: 19" STaSIS-Champion RG40's with Yokohama Adven Sport A/S, STaSIS-Alcons 370mm, STaSIS-Ohlin Motorsport coilovers, STaSIS 4:1 torsen center differential, STaSIS cat-back exhaust, Hyperco springs (800lb/in front and 1200lb/in rear), GIAC, Hotchkiss sway, APR snub mount, K-MAC bushings, K&N, clear corners, ECS smoked sidemarkers and reflectors. A STaSIS badge numbered 1.



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