Monster Build - 2.1 Stroker / AEB High Rev / GT3076R / Meth

[dfaudi]

Here we go. This will be my first attempt of doing some hardcore engine internal work. Most of what i have done is bolts-ons, and the recent GT3076r install that i fabbed the plumbing for. I feel ive done my research and have sourced all the necessary parts. Now i just have to piece everything together.

Platform:
2002 A4 1.8QMT - Dolphin Gray with Sport Suspension.
Former Mods: REVO/Ecode 550cc GTRS file, 550 Genesis Injectors, Custom FMIC (28x9x2.75" core - No bumper support cutting), 3" Custom Turboback Exhaust with 2+2 Tips, Forge DV, Southbend hybrid stage 4 clutch (stage 5 clutch/stage 3 Press Plate), K&N Panel filter w/stock airbox.

The Plan:
As the title states, my build is 3 phases. 1.Turbo 2.Engine 3.Head

Phase 1: GT3076R Turbo Install
Status: Completed
Software: Temporily running same Revo GTRS tune with 550cc Genesis injectors and stock MAF 19psi
Hardware Specs:
-GT3076R with 4" anti-surge compressor housing, 0.63 hotside
-ATP T3 exhaust manifold with 38mm external wastegate flange
-Tial 38mm Wastegate with Nitride coating on valve, External Dump
-Custom 3" Downpipe with V-band
-Custom wastegate plumbing to sit wastegate beside turbo
-DV valve plumbed in stock location & another Forge 004 BOV before throttle body
-Custom Intake with stock MAF and Autozone filter, points down (no other options)
-Removed SAI pump (CEL eliminat with REVO), removed SAI plumbing, disconnected SAI valve vacuum line so it wont open

Ok Heres the link to the pics:http://dfcustoms.net/PROJECT500HP/BAT/Phase1.htm

Outcome:
The car fired up with the first crank! It warmed up and idled perfectly. With the same tune as on my GTRS I wasnt expecting much more power but a little gain with cooler intake temps. Also i was hesitant to beat on it right off the bat since this turbo can flow way more than the GTRS and i didnt want to max the injectors and run lean. But impulse got the better of me and after a warmup i took it right upto 6500 RPM which is the max RPM for a GTRS'er.
Spooled to 19psi by 4200'ish, and pulled much better than GTRS. The torque spike in 1st is still very satisfying. Late, but satisfying. After datalogging my what-could-be catastrophic first pull, VAG-COM said that my injectors top out 100% duty cycle at ~6300 rpm (block 2: Duty x RPM / 1200 = %). AFR's were still meeting the requested nicely (low 12's), and after a few more pulls upto 7K, the ARFs were still reasonable moving upto mid 12's. A little on the leaner side, but some water/meth injection should remedy that.

The best part about the whole turbo is hands down the external wastegate dump!! When I hit full boost, it is a similar effect to when the Hulk mutates and destroys everything in sight. I passed under a tunnel in 2nd at WOT, and I don’t think I have the words to explain the intensity. I will never go back to an internal wastegate setup.


Phase 2: Engine build
At first I was thinking of doing a poor mans engine build. I bought used AEB pistons, new rings and rods. I was planning on dropping the oil pan and doing everything over a weekend. Then I wanted to go bigger and was looking into an AEG crank or something forged. After realizing that a forged crank wasn’t cheap, I was back and forth on which way I wanted to go with the build. A concern I had with the 95.5 TDI crank is having a low rod ratio (RR). The lower the RR the more the rods will tend to wear on the sidewalls of the cylinders during the power stroke. The RR is basically the ratio between the rod length and the crank stroke, so on the TDI (144/95.5 = 1.51). . This is a pretty low rod ratio considering that the stock rod ratio on a 1.8T is about ~1.67. Then I looked into the new 2.0 FSI’s rod crank specs and they use the same rod length (144mm) and use the 92.5 crank. That works to about a 1.56 RR. So not too far off from the 2.1 setup I want to do. I figured if the OEM is doing a 1.56 RR (and OEMs are anal about reliability), then I should be ok with the 1.51 RR. After my decision I found Issam (INA Engineering) on a 2.2L stroker thread and gave him a call. Spoke to him about going 2.1 and after that, I was much more confident about the build. Props to Issam for hooking me up with all the parts I needed. Everything was packaged the right way,
Status: All parts sourced. Waiting for engine shop to prep block.
ETA: End of June
Hardware Specs:
- Purchased Spare 06a block
- TDI Diesel 1.9L (ALH) crank 95.5 stroke (forged), low miles (from Issam)
- Supertech 83mm pistons, moly skirt coating, raised wrist pin for 95.5mm crank, 9:1 CR
- IE 20mm rods, comes with ARP rod bolts (nice rods)
- raceware main studs
- Coated main/rod bearings, stock clearance
- New oil pump
Shop Services (Motor Bob local in MI):
-Block bore to 83mm (with torque plate), Block deck milled flat, Block cleaning, Balancing

I will try to take videos of the boring and milling.

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Phase 3: AEB High Rev Head
Status: All parts sourced. Waiting on shop
ETA: going in with 2.1 engine
Nauturally, the decision to get the AEB head was a no brainer, bigger intake ports, and definitely need the springs to make power up top and not float. So in the process of sourcing the springs, I decided to get Ti retainers, and inconel exhaust valves. I decided to take it upon myself to clean up the exhaust ports, remove any casting imperfections and bore out the ports a bit. I was told to leave the intake side alone. Many have told me that the desing of the intake ports is highly specific. Changes could negatively affect performance, and bigger is not better in this case.
Hardware Specs:
-AEB stock cylinder head in good condition
-AEB big port longitudinal intake manifold
-Supertech Inconel Exhaust valves, stock size
-Supertech Valve springs (dual exhaust valve springs)
-Supertech Ti retainers
-Exhaust valve guides (recommended by Isaam)
-Stock cams
Shop Services:
-will be having Motor Bob (Local in MI) R&R the exhaust valve guides
-mill the head flat. This is highly recommended. Allows the head to clamp to the block and make a much better seal.

I will try to take videos of the head milling.

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Ill update with pics soon.

[vinny.dtw]

Dave, nice...I still need to meet up with you.

[AudiA4_20T]

cool

[dirtybrd]

Sweet, why stock cams?

[A4natomical]

[Pufftrees]

Sweet, why stock cams?

x2? All that work on stocker cams

[dougyfresh]

Nice plan. Sounds like you have thought this through very well. Kudos!


Couple comments.

~ Software for the final configuration?

~ Stock clearance main and rod bearings on a motor that spins well over 7400rpm?

~ Invest in a new oil pump chain and chain tensioner with the new oil pump. Also gonna need new front and rear main seals.

~ Might also want to rethink the AEB intake manifold. Tends to make cyl #3 run lean. A custom big plenium intake manifold with larger throttle body will work well with the set-up you have spec'd out.

[AudiA4_20T]

Doug Im pretty sure its cyl #3 that runs lean

I wouldnt get a new oil pump or chain or chain gear

[dirtybrd]

Thats what Doug said, Cyl. 3, and why no new pump? Cheap insurance.

[B6Lovin]

Couple comments.

~ Software for the final configuration?

~ Might also want to rethink the AEB intake manifold. Tends to make cyl #3 run lean. A custom big plenium intake manifold with larger throttle body will work well with the set-up you have spec'd out.

x2 to dougs questions that i quoted... also wanted to note that Issam can get you an intake manifold. A very, VERY nice intake manifold.

a couple other things...

why the ATP piece of shit manifold? you're going all out on everything else... you might as well have gotten a good manifold too while you were at it. I run the same one FWIW - can't wait to ditch it for a fullrace (or something similar) lol.

and the last thing ---

GET A F**CKING WIDEBAND/GAUGE! not yelling at you, or even really yelling... just trying to emphasize how important it is.

[dfaudi]

- Oil Pump: Got a new oil pump and tensioner. Ill see about a chain too.
- Cams: Stock for now for a couple reasons. I dont have the money. Also, i want to get the build done without and variables for problems. Once everything is in and working right, ill get cams. Id like to see/feel the difference btween stock and cam'd.
- Intake Mani: i got into the manifold with a dremel and grinded down some of the burrs and obstructions...its amazing how much casting flash is in there, aslo radius'd the sides to get some more air into 1 and 4. Guess ill have to take pics of that too.

[dirtybrd]

Got ya!

[dougyfresh]

Doug Im pretty sure its cyl #3 that runs lean

I wouldnt get a new oil pump or chain or chain gear

I would. Its cheap insurance as Chris said. Besides, the whole bottom end will be new. Put a new oil pump and chain and tensioner in there while you are at it. I wish I did this when I built my motor last summer. Kicking myself for it..

- Oil Pump: Got a new oil pump and tensioner. Ill see about a chain too.
- Cams: Stock for now for a couple reasons. I dont have the money. Also, i want to get the build done without and variables for problems. Once everything is in and working right, ill get cams. Id like to see/feel the difference btween stock and cam'd.
- Intake Mani: i got into the manifold with a dremel and grinded down some of the burrs and obstructions...its amazing how much casting flash is in there, aslo radius'd the sides to get some more air into 1 and 4. Guess ill have to take pics of that too.

Cams are easy to swap. Heads and bottom ends are not. Good idea.

There are also other options besides Issam's intake manifold. Run with the AMB manifold and throttle body until you plan on putting a bigger throttle body and big plenium intake manifold on.

Those things, along with your plan, will get the vehicle running and things will be swapped out in stages. Your REVO software will operate the vehicle fine while the stages are being complete. Fine enough for driving and having fun. Not fine enough for maximizing power out of the hardware configuration. That will come once you've got everything in the car that you want (to meet you ultimate goal).

[actlsub9]

MODERATOR, PLEASE MOVE THIS THREAD TO THE PROJECT/MOTOR BUILD SECTION. I DID NOT HAVE ACCESS TO DO THIS.

Done. Nice build

[dfaudi]

Nice plan. Sounds like you have thought this through very well. Kudos!


Couple comments.

~ Software for the final configuration?

~ Stock clearance main and rod bearings on a motor that spins well over 7400rpm?

~ Invest in a new oil pump chain and chain tensioner with the new oil pump. Also gonna need new front and rear main seals.

~ Might also want to rethink the AEB intake manifold. Tends to make cyl #3 run lean. A custom big plenium intake manifold with larger throttle body will work well with the set-up you have spec'd out.

Writeup is in its initial phases and i know i missed a lot of crap. Ill def update it with details. I know it would have helped me.

Software: Its running good for what i need the car for now...daily driver and occcasional boosting. Im getting a 3" MAF and throwing in some Siemens 630's and see what happens. But still the 3"/630's is an intermediate phase. I was waiting for REVO/Ecodes 35psi file. I need to find out whats involved with that. I heard theyre requiring you to buy their $600 fuel pump and whatnot. So its still up in the air what im doing with tuning...my budget is pretty much nothing now.
Vinny, lets get that Select Plus fired up?
Anyone have any good recommendations? I really dont want to spend anything on a new tune. Anyone figure out how to modify stock maps yet?
Front Rear Main seals: Gottem
Chain: Gotta get it.
Bearing Clearance: Ive heard many conflicting opinions..."stock clearance is best for any RPM/load"...."More clearance is needed for higher rpm"..."More clearance at high rpm load causes more slap/wear"
Educate me please.

ATP Mani: Yeah went with the ATP manifold (got a new one for dirt cheap...secret). BAT on a budget. I put together the whole kit for $1700.

Equal Length race headers: Budget again. $800 is way too much.

[dougyfresh]

Software: Its running good for what i need the car for now...daily driver and occcasional boosting. Im getting a 3" MAF and throwing in some Siemens 630's and see what happens. But still the 3"/630's is an intermediate phase. I was waiting for REVO/Ecodes 35psi file. I need to find out whats involved with that. I heard theyre requiring you to buy their $600 fuel pump and whatnot. So its still up in the air what im doing with tuning...my budget is pretty much nothing now.
Vinny, lets get that Select Plus fired up?
Anyone have any good recommendations? I really dont want to spend anything on a new tune. Anyone figure out how to modify stock maps yet?

Custom Motronic tuning is available through AutoSpeed Performance in NJ (http://autospeed.us/services_tuning.php). A base file has been written for my car (also 2002) and Mark can adjust that to your hardware configuration. He will need your car in his shop though to maximize the gains associated.

Software will cost more money. So will any new REVO file. SO, you're going to be spending more money on new software anyway.

My personal opinion is that a configuration like what you are building will require custom software written specifically for that configuration. You are already spending thousands and thousands of dollars on the hardware configuration. Another thousand dollars (or so) for custom software is peanuts and will maximize the power for the hardware configuration.

A configuration like your ultimate goal will require a minimum of a bigger in-tank fuel pump (http://shop.dthaus.com/product.sc?ca...&productId=191) and 875cc/min fuel injectors. I do not see the need to deter away from the returnless system just yet.


My soapbox (haven't been on this one in a while):
I have found great satisifaction with working with ASP for sofware for my car. Since my car was tuned late last year the software has been flawless in multiple operating conditions: altitude (taken the car up to 4000ft), extreme cold, etc.. The car even runs very well in closed-loop (ie: no MAF but I don't recommend daily usage this way) right now since I am working on building a new TIP for my MAF and turbo. I also have multiple files stored to the ECU and can switch between them like you can with an SPS3 on REVO. Boost is throttle modulated (ie: N75) which makes for a very lively vehicle on the street. I am looking forward for a re-tune once my new hardware configuration is finished.

[pondside36]

Sounds like you have a great plan progress going, keep us posted.

[HTA A4]

What are other options besides Issams intake manifold? Can we even buy Issam's anymore?? The thread is locked

[dfaudi]

I think i talked to mark...or someone in NY about custom tuning. Its $500 and its all done remotely. He sends a base map and tunes it based on the datalogs you send back to him.
I wish i had the know-how to do custom motronic tuning. I looked into the read/write flashers and theyre easy to get. But i wouldnt want to experiment with my motor in tuning it and changing maps.

Since i already have REVO, itll be about ~$200 for the upgraded Map, and thats good for 35 PSI, uses 750cc injectors and their custom MAP sensor.

Any motronic gurus who've tuned their own ME7.5's out there??

[B6Lovin]

Any motronic gurus who've tuned their own ME7.5's out there??

its not 7.5 - but your best bet if you're looking for information on tuning motronic is to get ahold of ian (bassed on here) and PM him. He knows a lot more than 90% of us about it, and still has a lot to learn... but he's definitely a good place to start.


what upgraded fueling do you have planned?

[sean1.8t]

its not 7.5 - but your best bet if you're looking for information on tuning motronic is to get ahold of ian (bassed on here) and PM him. He knows a lot more than 90% of us about it, and still has a lot to learn... but he's definitely a good place to start.


what upgraded fueling do you have planned?

you mean k0mpresd. not bassed. both Ian's though

[Haenszel20v]

For what its worth I made 651whp at 35psi on an ATP cast log-style exhaust manifold.

Add in some cams to your build and you'll be in business.

[dfaudi]

For what its worth I made 651whp at 35psi on an ATP cast log-style exhaust manifold.

Add in some cams to your build and you'll be in business.

These are hp numbers i like to see. What tuning you have? Custom?

[dfaudi]

its not 7.5 - but your best bet if you're looking for information on tuning motronic is to get ahold of ian (bassed on here) and PM him. He knows a lot more than 90% of us about it, and still has a lot to learn... but he's definitely a good place to start.


what upgraded fueling do you have planned?

Uhh, i thought it was 7.5.1 or 7.1?? My memory is failing me.

[B6Lovin]

you mean k0mpresd. not bassed. both Ian's though

whoops, yeah - i was headed out the door when i wrote that.

i'm used to his name on the local boards more than i am on here anyways, i usually forget he's even on this site lol

For what its worth I made 651whp at 35psi on an ATP cast log-style exhaust manifold.

Add in some cams to your build and you'll be in business.

well that's encouraging. i still don't like 99% of ATP's products or having to deal with their wait times.

Uhh, i thought it was 7.5.1 or 7.1?? My memory is failing me.

no i mean he tuned his b5 - which isn't version 7.5 lol, not that you were wrong.

[dougyfresh]

I think i talked to mark...or someone in NY about custom tuning. Its $500 and its all done remotely. He sends a base map and tunes it based on the datalogs you send back to him.
I wish i had the know-how to do custom motronic tuning. I looked into the read/write flashers and theyre easy to get. But i wouldnt want to experiment with my motor in tuning it and changing maps.

Since i already have REVO, itll be about ~$200 for the upgraded Map, and thats good for 35 PSI, uses 750cc injectors and their custom MAP sensor.

Any motronic gurus who've tuned their own ME7.5's out there??

I think you are referring to Greg@SPP.

Since you already have REVO you are going to still have to pay for the software upgrade, MAP sensor and fuel pump if you choose that option (talk to Greg@dth).

[dirtybrd]

These are hp numbers i like to see. What tuning you have? Custom?

I'm sure SEM.

[AudiA4_20T]

he has Autronic SM4

[dougyfresh]

he has Autronic SM4

want to be baller?

Go Motec
http://www.motec.com.au/aboutecu/ecuoverview/

Jake and I were drooling over the ADL2s when walking through the Koni / Gran Am pits at Lime Rock on Monday.

[A4ringedONE8T]

want to be baller?

Go Motec
http://www.motec.com.au/aboutecu/ecuoverview/

Jake and I were drooling over the ADL2s when walking through the Koni / Gran Am pits at Lime Rock on Monday.

I think I might be counting my pennies for an M880 if my car doesn't get a proper tune soon

[vinny.dtw]

Dave call me tonight. I have a few words to speak with you. :D

[Papachristou]

can someone finally break 11s on a b6 with this monster?

[vinny.dtw]

we probably have a few cars on here that are pretty capable of low 12's...high 11's? I don't' think so.

On top of that, nobody has taken their cars to the strip yet with all these BAT's guys. So its all speculation.

[dfaudi]

So am i getting my BAT member# or what???

[dfaudi]

I think you are referring to Greg@SPP.

Since you already have REVO you are going to still have to pay for the software upgrade, MAP sensor and fuel pump if you choose that option (talk to Greg@dth).

Right, it was Greg. Anyone on here have one of his tunes?

But with REVO its the difference of price in the GTRS and GT30 maps...~200 ish.

[dougyfresh]

Right, it was Greg. Anyone on here have one of his tunes?

But with REVO its the difference of price in the GTRS and GT30 maps...~200 ish.

Maverick does on his S/C'd 3.0L

[Ill 3.0]

Maverick does on his S/C'd 3.0L

He's probably the only B6, lots of B5 S4s though have SSP tuning

[Jake39454]

He's probably the only B6, lots of B5 S4s though have SSP tuning

So does a customer of mine, his name is Matt and his screen name on here is Militant Grunt. He's running a 3076R built AEB head 01' (ME7) A4.

[mtbrider]

I think I might be counting my pennies for an M880 if my car doesn't get a proper tune soon

Do it. I'll be heading your way soon. I'll stop in and say hi to you at your shop.

[B6Lovin]

we probably have a few cars on here that are pretty capable of low 12's...high 11's? I don't' think so.

On top of that, nobody has taken their cars to the strip yet with all these BAT's guys. So its all speculation.

11's will happen soon - don't worry. There's enough of us out there that ate on the right track that it shouldn't take much longer.

And I run my car, so I don't wanna hear it lol