FAQ: VR6 -12V & 24V Info sharing

[NYEuroTuner]

How far along with this swap are you since you're currently doing it?

Well I'm not going boost at the moment, I can only afford the swap. So shes going to run NA for the next few months.

I'm sending out my Vr6 harness along with my S4 harness to Issam this week so he can work his magic electronically so I can get the motor to run without having Christmas lights on my dash board.


If your asking for a percentage, roughly 60%, the modified harness and some parts is whats left to do.

Heres a a pic thats a few weeks old.

[s2the4]

Whoa. You're calling B/S based on what? Please send me the link showing where $4K buys a built VR6.

Yeah, I was going to show him just how fast Ti retainers, valve springs, ported head, head studs, cams, larger valves, machining and other parts in the head alone adds up fast. I haven't even started on the block yet. You can have at least $2-3K in the head alone. What are you getting for $4K, just the shortblock or the longblock?

you don't need half of the things you have mentioned just for you Big Boost I have gone ahead and found a link on foritutude for your.

http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4394669

Soon after my wedding , ill be ordering a SP stage 2 3.0 ( turbo spec) vr6. I plan to run it NA @ 10:5:1 compression for a year or two for a break in. With in that 2 years, ill be peicing together a turbo kit, and lower it to 8:0:1 CR. So far I started to clone my manifold to a 2.9 upper and lower. With in 3-4 weeks, Ill be receiving a 2.9 main (upper, and lower )+ throttlebody from Denmark. What cam should I go with, I was thinking a 268 for both applications, let me know. Below heres a liting of SP engine specs.
STAGE 1

(applications up to 500 WHP)

VR6 Turbo Short Block

JE pistons, ARP rod bolts, new engine bearings, fully machined and assembled. Rings file fit and clearances checked.

$2150.00 + core

VR6 Turbo Long Block

Same as above, but with ARP head studs, steel gaskets and spacers, head rebuild with 3 angle valve job, HD springs, back cut valves and viton seals.

$3175.00 + core

STAGE 2

(applications up to 600+ WHP)

VR6 Turbo Short Block

JE pistons, Crower connecting rods, ARP rod and main bolts and new engine bearings. Rings file fit and clearances checked.

$3350.00 + core

VR6 Turbo Long Block

Same as above, but with ARP mainstuds, steel gaskets and spacers, head rebuild with 3 angle valve job, HD springs, pocket port bowls, back cut valves, matched intake and viton seals.

$4350.00 + core


*VR6 Core charges are $850 for long block, $500 for short block*

**if you don't see what you are looking for (8v, 16v and 1.8t) please email me with your needs (application, HP goal, use and budget).**


Modified by Nitestalkerz at 4:16 PM 5-17-2009

Modified by Nitestalkerz at 4:17 PM 5-17-2009

You should really look into the vwvortex there are guys making 500whp with just head studs and rods. How does that amount to 6K? you don't need such a built engine to make that much power. I will try to find you the link for all the VWVORTEX guys that have what setup and how much power just so you can see how LITTLE Money they spent to get high numbers!

[Issam@INA]

what did we say about teasers....
NO TEASERS

[NYEuroTuner]

what did we say about teasers....
NO TEASERS

Oh yes I forgot. lol

[NYCVR6]

Whoa a lot of people going this route... I wish i was... ;0)

[Papa Stone]

Thanks for posting the teaser!!

[will175]

Justin- I have been waiting to see some pics of the no name persons build,lol. I cant wait man.

[NYEuroTuner]

Very nice parts you have there NYCVR6, Good Luck with the build

[cichonski55]

So i'm not sure if this was answered but has any progresss been made in the B6 deparment. It woul be a shame if this beautiful ngine could only sit in B5's

[B5A4Kevin]

thats a gen III 3.6L fsi right?

[antoanS4]

It looks like

[Mrsfourrings]

thats a gen III 3.6L fsi right?

No the 3.6l fsi has a black intake manifold I think, But I think to use an FSI motor one have to drill and install regular injectors because at this point there is no standalone to run FSI cars yet.

[antoanS4]

Well I'm not going boost at the moment, I can only afford the swap. So shes going to run NA for the next few months.

I'm sending out my Vr6 harness along with my S4 harness to Issam this week so he can work his magic electronically so I can get the motor to run without having Christmas lights on my dash board.


If your asking for a percentage, roughly 60%, the modified harness and some parts is whats left to do.

Heres a a pic thats a few weeks old.

What motor r u using???

[NYEuroTuner]

What motor r u using???

I took Issam's advice and I bought a 24v Vr6.

lol I still have to send him my harness, been working doubles with almost no time to myself.



Side note..

Issam Im sending this shizz this week brotha.

[antoanS4]

Nice,are u gonna use standalone or keeping the stock ECU

[Issam@INA]

Issam Im sending this shizz this week brotha.

Take your time....LOL
I gotta take care of a very important person this week and next week

[antoanS4]

can u run a 3.6 motor from the touareg

[Issam@INA]

can u run a 3.6 motor from the touareg

Yes you can
you will just need a custom intake manifold as getting that FSI to work in a B5 will be a complete PITA

[viperbl]

Yes you can
you will just need a custom intake manifold as getting that FSI to work in a B5 will be a complete PITA

[NYEuroTuner]

Nice,are u gonna use standalone or keeping the stock ECU

Stock ECU for now, that's why I am gonna be sending the harnesses to Issam so he can mesh the two to work together.


In the coming months I'll talk to Issam for a Stand alone, at the moment, My S going to be running NA..

[onemoremile]

The fact that the 12v VR6 still has timing chains vs. a belt I would not recommend for any one to swap from something with a belt to chains. The timing chain problem has been notorious in the 12v VR6 world. Unlike a belt which you can easily take a look and see how the belt looks... timing chain (and guides) is nearly a half day of just to see if they are ok or not. No thanks. That's main reason I traded my MK3 97 Jetta VR6 for a B5 2001 S4.

Yes I love the sound of the VR6 and I miss it bad but really how often are you going to need the extra room to swap your turbos out? To do all the work for a more space seems like a waste even if it slightly cheaper for the amount of power... We also need to keep in mind most emission standard make it illegal to swap in a older engine in a newer car. I know it is here in Washington state. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure most people are just going to be doing this for a track only car.

I love seeing people trying new things but this might be going in the wrong direction.... that's just my $0.02

Real picture, real mileage and speed, stock chain, normal maintenance. 94 Jetta GLX VR6. It was an autocross points leader at 268,000 miles.

[RedRocketS4]

for information, what are the best spark plugs to run on the 24v vr6 n/a and then turbo?

[NYEuroTuner]

I would assume NGK's?

[RedRocketS4]

^^haha, which NGK's? the BKR6E's ($2.50 each), BKR7E's ($2.50 each), or the ones that come from the factory ($10 each).

[Pete.McP]

The bellhousing adapter is an OEM part, correct? If so, why do you need a custom flywheel and starter? Shouldn't there be an OEM starter and flywheel that would work?

[Big Boost]

I believe the factory adaptor is meant for the FWD transmissions and the unit used in the Touareg/Q7. It is needed for this application to bolt up the VR6 longitudinally to the 01E transmission in the B5 chassis.

[Issam@INA]

The bellhousing adapter is an OEM part, correct? If so, why do you need a custom flywheel and starter? Shouldn't there be an OEM starter and flywheel that would work?

There is an OEM starter and an OEM flywheel.

OEM Starter motor - $650+ USD
OEM Flywheel - 35lb dual mass unit and costs about $500 USD

If we thought it would be cheaper to offer OEM parts,trust me we would have....

[Pete.McP]

It is needed for this application to bolt up the VR6 longitudinally to the 01E transmission in the B5 chassis.

Thanks, I figured that out already.

I believe the factory adaptor is meant for the FWD transmissions and the unit used in the Touareg/Q7.

There is an OEM starter and an OEM flywheel.

OEM Starter motor - $650+ USD
OEM Flywheel - 35lb dual mass unit and costs about $500 USD

If we thought it would be cheaper to offer OEM parts,trust me we would have....

Is the starter and flywheel out of the Touareg/Q7?

[Issam@INA]

Is the starter and flywheel out of the Touareg/Q7?

I apologize in advance if this comes out the wrong way but I am not going to answer that.
We put alot of R&D into this set up so if you are interested in one then simply send me a PM or email but this thread is not for me to tell you where to outsource us on parts from.

Thanks.

[Pete.McP]

I apologize in advance if this comes out the wrong way but I am not going to answer that.
We put alot of R&D into this set up so if you are interested in one then simply send me a PM or email but this thread is not for me to tell you where to outsource us on parts from.

Thanks.

Fair enough. I understand where you're coming from.

[jibberjive]

outsource us on parts from.

English is such a wierd language. If you focus on those last 5 words it seems crazy, yet somehow it makes perfect sense ha. Sorry for the random post

[mys4.org]

^ lol

I am currently doing this swap in my Daily Driven S4, and it will stay a Daily driven S4 when its finished.

Other than that, please don't turn this thread into a 2.7tt vs Vr6.

This is the Vr6 Swap FAQ Thread, not "state your opinion why this swap is bad thread"


;) Thanks.

Lets define FAQ... Facts and Questions. I was stating the facts (whether they were wrong or right) as I know them and asking serious questions. Sorry I stepped on you toe I did not know you were that sensitive. I'm not trying to start something but what I believe I said in my last post needs to be carefully considered. Especial regarding putting in a older engine in a newer car. I see the 12v VR6 still being a problem. If my memory is correct the 12v VR6 production stopped in 1999. How are you guys getting around that legal issue? Or is everyone doing the 24v vr6?

And many of you have pointed out that you have 200K plus VR6 engines running good... great, but are they FI? I've seen too post on VWvortex of timing chains going bad around 100k. For those of you that went longer then that I would consider you the lucky few. I would like to know the life span of the VR6 putting out 500+ hp if it will last as long as a 2.7t putting out equal amount of power?

I love the VR6 engine but it's not like it's bullet proof. It seems like people are making it sound like a gift from god. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 2.7t is any better. I see some of you have started questioning the cost of this. Is this really going to be cheaper?

I'm all about seeing people do new things but I'm also trying to be realistic. Often times people get so excited about something new and do not think it completely through. If someone has lets hear it....

[wdbdy2000s4]

I love the VR6 engine but it's not like it's bullet proof. It seems like people are making it sound like a gift from god. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 2.7t is any better. I see some of you have started questioning the cost of this. Is this really going to be cheaper?

Depends on your goals. If you're trying to build a high-hp drag monster then it can be cheaper then a fully built s4 motor with GTs. If you're looking for anythign less then 550whp then I would just run RS6s with rods. Price also depends on your current setup. If you have ICs, a stage 3 clutch, DPs and other odds and ends then it will make an rs6 tubro swap more attractive. If you're bone stock then the VR swap can save you money over a bigger 2.7 turbo setup. You really need to outline your exact power goals and what you'll be using the car for. I'm sure Issam can chime in with a little more pricing info.

[NYEuroTuner]

MyS4.org..^ Have you even read the first few pages of this thread at all? Or did you just read the last page and decide to post?

Take the time and read this entire thread and all its posts, and believe me you will have your answers.

I'm all about seeing people do new things but I'm also trying to be realistic. Often times people get so excited about something new and do not think it completely through. If someone has lets hear it....

MyS4.org,

034Motorsport has done this, USP Motorsports has a daily driven S4 Vrt, and almost a dozen tuners/owners are currently building vr6 S4s as we speak, believe me, if you visit 034's website, or PM issam, the amount of technical know how and R&D they put into this will amaze you.

No one is calling the Vr6 motor a gift from god, nor are any of us bashing the 2.7tt, who ever said this motor was a gift from god? lol

Again, read this thread, there are plenty of well known and respected 2.7tt tuners/owners that had great things to say about this swap on its benefits it provides along with their opinions.

[Pete.McP]

mys4.org, everyone has to weigh things out for themselves. I find this swap very appealing. I've owned my fair share of VWs and Audis, as well as other cars with motor swaps. If you already have a lot of money tied up in your S4 and its running great, then yes, I don't see the point in swapping. But if you're starting from scratch, or have a blown motor, or a regular 2.8 A4/A6, and want to build a monster, there doesn't seem like a better way to do it. Used Vr6 motors are cheap, 01E's are cheap, and S4's with blown motors are also cheap, (good running 2.8 C5's and B5's are also very inexpensive, and I've seen good, clean, running B6's with 01E's for less than $10K) so why wouldn't you?!?

[NYCVR6]

[Sales@RAI]

Lets define FAQ... Facts and Questions. I was stating the facts (whether they were wrong or right) as I know them and asking serious questions. Sorry I stepped on you toe I did not know you were that sensitive. I'm not trying to start something but what I believe I said in my last post needs to be carefully considered. Especial regarding putting in a older engine in a newer car. I see the 12v VR6 still being a problem. If my memory is correct the 12v VR6 production stopped in 1999. How are you guys getting around that legal issue? Or is everyone doing the 24v vr6?

And many of you have pointed out that you have 200K plus VR6 engines running good... great, but are they FI? I've seen too post on VWvortex of timing chains going bad around 100k. For those of you that went longer then that I would consider you the lucky few. I would like to know the life span of the VR6 putting out 500+ hp if it will last as long as a 2.7t putting out equal amount of power?

I love the VR6 engine but it's not like it's bullet proof. It seems like people are making it sound like a gift from god. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying the 2.7t is any better. I see some of you have started questioning the cost of this. Is this really going to be cheaper?

I'm all about seeing people do new things but I'm also trying to be realistic. Often times people get so excited about something new and do not think it completely through. If someone has lets hear it....

the 2.7T has so many more problems than a VR6. Timing chain guides? Big deal

[onemoremile]

And many of you have pointed out that you have 200K plus VR6 engines running good... great, but are they FI? I've seen too post on VWvortex of timing chains going bad around 100k. For those of you that went longer then that I would consider you the lucky few. I would like to know the life span of the VR6 putting out 500+ hp if it will last as long as a 2.7t putting out equal amount of power?

Power output has nothing to do with how long a timing chain or it's guides will last. The guides have normal maintenance just like our belts do. Ignore it and face the consequences. Mine hit redline every day and was a track star with over a quarter million miles. The S4 is now at 247k miles and the maintenance on it is night and day compared to the VR6. The 2.7t is like a stripper, it only works when you throw money at it.

[Issam@INA]

The 2.7t is like a stripper, it only works when you throw money at it.

Sad but true...

[antoanS4]

Looking good, what turbo r u using