FAQ: VR6 -12V & 24V Info sharing

[wdbdy2000s4]

^yup. It's been through 2 motors already, that's the 3rd. I guess R32 rods don't like boost.

[solowb5]

r32 has a lot of things that are different internally. Well I am going with oem software on my swap with c2 software.Since I'm local I'm probably going to take the car there and have their tuner write me a file. My main reasoning is to have them mess with the vvt on it. Just waiting till winter break to install and build everything. I'll be sure to post after it is done.

Has anyone broke 500+ on the 2.8 24v. As in stock motor with a headspacer?
I know the limiting factor is the head. It's just rediculous at what a differance it is.

[NYCVR6]

r32 has a lot of things that are different internally. Well I am going with oem software on my swap with c2 software.Since I'm local I'm probably going to take the car there and have their tuner write me a file. My main reasoning is to have them mess with the vvt on it. Just waiting till winter break to install and build everything. I'll be sure to post after it is done.

Has anyone broke 500+ on the 2.8 24v. As in stock motor with a headspacer?
I know the limiting factor is the head. It's just rediculous at what a differance it is.

I have full control over the cam timing with my standalone. You can make 500 with just a head spacer.. No limiting factor, people have made 800+whp on the archaic 12v vr6 head, the 24v head flows much better.

[NYCVR6]

^yup. It's been through 2 motors already, that's the 3rd. I guess R32 rods don't like boost.

That's strange, i know a few hpa cars running very well with stock blocks... Maybe it was a bad tune. The only thing i think, you cant overbore the 3.2 block because the cylinder walls are pretty thin as is. That's why i chose the 2.8 for the thicker walls, and my block is bored out almost to a 3.0 l

[solowb5]

Any links to anyone making 500+ to the ground on 2.8 pistons, headspacer, and a 2.8 24v head?
I've ran the 034efi IIc before on my 1.8t and I wasn't happy with it. So I don't care about that. That is why I am choosing OEM.

[GURUMAN]

Any links to anyone making 500+ to the ground on 2.8 pistons, headspacer, and a 2.8 24v head?
I've ran the 034efi IIc before on my 1.8t and I wasn't happy with it. So I don't care about that. That is why I am choosing OEM.

Was it professionnaly tuned ?

Because mines run as good as oem...

[Matador]

There's lots and lots of people with turbo'ed R32s now. HPA, VF Engineering, CTS Turbo, C2's kit, and custom builds with Unitronic or C2 tuning. Also some old kits from EIP that are still running fine (insert bullshit here about EIP). Most of everyone's cars are holding up just fine with of course the normal small quirks of having a modded car. Look up websaabn, JAVW, jettin123, Wangnuts, of course Smash, Wiberg... just some of the "heavy hitters" I can name off the top of my head. Point being, boost is no prob for a R32 motor.

The max serviceable bore limit on the R32 block equates to a displacement of 3.3L plus a few mL in change. So not too much extra power to be had by a displacement bump.

[Haenszel20v]

??

[dougyfresh]

How do you like them EV14's? Are they all they're cracked up to be?

I have heard good things about them too.

[NYCVR6]

??

24 vr6 oil pan and 12v mk3 vr6 oil pan..

[Issam@INA]

24 vr6 oil pan and 12v mk3 vr6 oil pan..

MKV R32 oil pan Justin.Kicked out section towards the rear.

[Matador]

^^Yeah, those pics are from this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3689772

I want to try using that pan when I do my build. Eventually.......

[Issam@INA]

Wont work...
USe the pan we provide please.

[Matador]

Wont work...
USe the pan we provide please.

Sorry, meant on the .:R

[Issam@INA]

Sorry, meant on the .:R

Wait a couple of weeks
I am making a baffled pan for the VR6 engine now

[solowb5]

Yes I paid someone to tune it. Met him from motorgeek.

[NYEuroTuner]

Progress.

[Big Boost]

Progress.

How far have you got?

[Raacerx]

anyone interested in a VR6 to 01E adapter plate? Im grabbing one for the good price, but this is something I am not going to even consider for a year or two, so no point in holding onto it.

If anyone figures out a cost effective way to run the ME7 with the 24valve VR6, I'd seriously consider the swap because its really not any more expensive (as far as parts are concerned) then doing a GT setup. Its the standalone engine management and the required intensive tuning that really drives the cost past impossible for me. Id be happy with just a little GT30R. I only want 400whp, and the space to work on everything, but it seems its really only cost effective if you go all out.

And can someone clarify the engine mount thing for me? I jsut spend 2 hours reading this entire thread, but I am still confused on whether the 24V can actually use the stock B5 motor mounts. Seems it is conflicting, and from the pictures from 034, I can't tell if that is a custom motor mount bracket that utilizes the stock mounting location, or whether it is actually a VAG motor mount bracket. Thanks, again, sorry if I missed it.

[NYEuroTuner]

How far have you got?

Shouldn't be more than a few weeks till she gets fired up. *crosses fingers*

[NYEuroTuner]

And can someone clarify the engine mount thing for me? I jsut spend 2 hours reading this entire thread, but I am still confused on whether the 24V can actually use the stock B5 motor mounts. Seems it is conflicting, and from the pictures from 034, I can't tell if that is a custom motor mount bracket that utilizes the stock mounting location, or whether it is actually a VAG motor mount bracket. Thanks, again, sorry if I missed it.

If you are not using 034's Race Engine harness/cage, yes you can use the stock Motor mounts and S4 engine brackets....But, you need a Custom fabbed bracket so the passenger side can work..


Contact Issam, he's making my bracket.



Also, about your question regarding being cost effective....


Heres an Idea, get all the parts you need for this swap.. Adpater, oil pan, starter, flywheel/clutch, and swap in the Motor NA, and go turbo later on.


Thats what i'm doing.... I can only afford the swap, the turbo setup is gonna have to wait...


You shouldn't have any problem running a 24valve vr6 Naturally aspirated for the time being..

[Raacerx]

I certainly don't mind running NA for awhile, the VR6 is plenty powerful on its own, but wouldn't the setup still require extensive tuning for correct fuel curves, ignition timing, etc etc just to get the thing driving down the street? I was under the impression that I would still need to get a stand alone engine management, regardless of whether I go turbo from the bat. I cannot afford to pay someone else thousands of dollars just to tune the ECU. Either I do 100% of the work or can't even consider the project at all. I am fully confident swapping in everything mechanical, and I know my way around a machine shop/welding so Im happy to fabricate stuff if the need arises, but I really wouldn't know the first place to begin when it comes to electronics and wiring up the engine and tuning it to drive properly/safely. I am close to 034, love the shop and the people, they;ve helped me out, but I don't think I could ever afford to have them spend any considerable amount of time on the car. Maybe I missed it, but do I have to use standalone engine management? Is it easier to integrate the 24v VR6 with a turbo then without, considering the car came with boost? If it was fairly easy to get everything communicating correctly, I'm confident that I could learn how to tune it, but the car is my DD and while I don't drive much anymore, I wouldn't want it sitting in my driveway for months on end cause I can't figure out the engine integration. Im really sorry if these are repeat questions, but its a lot of information to remember. The parts themselves are within my budget, and I have a line on a cheap 24v.

If you are not using 034's Race Engine harness/cage, yes you can use the stock Motor mounts and S4 engine brackets....But, you need a Custom fabbed bracket so the passenger side can work..


Contact Issam, he's making my bracket.



Also, about your question regarding being cost effective....


Heres an Idea, get all the parts you need for this swap.. Adpater, oil pan, starter, flywheel/clutch, and swap in the Motor NA, and go turbo later on.


Thats what i'm doing.... I can only afford the swap, the turbo setup is gonna have to wait...


You shouldn't have any problem running a 24valve vr6 Naturally aspirated for the time being..

[Matador]

As far as my understanding, it IS possible to run ME7. But you must be the brave soul to rewire your harness for it to work.

[Big Boost]

I think VAST should be able to reconfigure the harness to utilize ME7. I don't know ow much they would charge though. Call Mike or Prince to find out.

[98a4]

My buddy has a new built 2.8 Schimmel 12v laying around that I can pick up for cheap.
I'm highly tempted, but am worried about dealing with all the accessories... Fab/Wiring/ect are not an issue, but I want the car to be capable of DD, even if it's not going to be constantly used for it.

I am going for ~700whp in the near future, with either the VR or building my current motor.... decisions decisions.

[wdbdy2000s4]

As far as my understanding, it IS possible to run ME7. But you must be the brave soul to rewire your harness for it to work.

Route 100 Euros in PA has already done this.

[calvin1.8t]

i have a project with a vr6 i wanna do one day. buy a mk4 r32 and a b5 s4 and sway the engines but not just that, make the r32 an audi r32 and the s4 a VW s4. put an audi interior in the r32 and a vw interior in the s4. instead of an audi logo, four interlocking vw logos and the R from rs4 as the r in r32. an put 3.2 and under it instead of quattro have 4-motion. throw the b6 s4 rims on it and 18' r32 rims on the s4. put the gti style cloth seats in the s4 and the leather recaros in the r32. ridiculous but itd be pretty funny and cool at the same time. its not just an engine swap haha :D

[Haenszel20v]

i have a project with a vr6 i wanna do one day. buy a mk4 r32 and a b5 s4 and sway the engines but not just that, make the r32 an audi r32 and the s4 a VW s4. put an audi interior in the r32 and a vw interior in the s4. instead of an audi logo, four interlocking vw logos and the R from rs4 as the r in r32. an put 3.2 and under it instead of quattro have 4-motion. throw the b6 s4 rims on it and 18' r32 rims on the s4. put the gti style cloth seats in the s4 and the leather recaros in the r32. ridiculous but itd be pretty funny and cool at the same time. its not just an engine swap haha :D

I hope you are a millionaire and don't have a job.

[calvin1.8t]

I hope you are a millionaire and don't have a job.

i figure if i rob 3 banks and sell 10 keys of pure then ill have half of the cash i need

[NYEuroTuner]

I certainly don't mind running NA for awhile, the VR6 is plenty powerful on its own, but wouldn't the setup still require extensive tuning for correct fuel curves, ignition timing, etc etc just to get the thing driving down the street? I was under the impression that I would still need to get a stand alone engine management, regardless of whether I go turbo from the bat. I cannot afford to pay someone else thousands of dollars just to tune the ECU. Either I do 100% of the work or can't even consider the project at all. I am fully confident swapping in everything mechanical, and I know my way around a machine shop/welding so Im happy to fabricate stuff if the need arises, but I really wouldn't know the first place to begin when it comes to electronics and wiring up the engine and tuning it to drive properly/safely. I am close to 034, love the shop and the people, they;ve helped me out, but I don't think I could ever afford to have them spend any considerable amount of time on the car. Maybe I missed it, but do I have to use standalone engine management? Is it easier to integrate the 24v VR6 with a turbo then without, considering the car came with boost? If it was fairly easy to get everything communicating correctly, I'm confident that I could learn how to tune it, but the car is my DD and while I don't drive much anymore, I wouldn't want it sitting in my driveway for months on end cause I can't figure out the engine integration. Im really sorry if these are repeat questions, but its a lot of information to remember. The parts themselves are within my budget, and I have a line on a cheap 24v.

For the money someone would charge you to tune/intergrate the ME7, your better off just going stand alone, then once you go Boost, your already ahead of the game, then just re tune your stand alone for boost settings..





Listen, before you go crazy, just buy all the parts you need, call Issam, you could get you the parts in a heart beat, then once everything is bolted in and hooked up... water lines etc... Just go stand alone and call it a day..

The swap is not easy, however it is worth it..

[wdbdy2000s4]

For the money someone would charge you to tune/intergrate the ME7, your better off just going stand alone, then once you go Boost, your already ahead of the game, then just re tune your stand alone for boost settings..

I would expect the cost of integrating the ME7 to be about $500-1000 depending whether or not you supply the 2 donor harnesses. Then you just gotta pay for a tune.

[NYEuroTuner]

I would expect the cost of integrating the ME7 to be about $500-1000 depending whether or not you supply the 2 donor harnesses. Then you just gotta pay for a tune.

Possibly, but after a proper tune....Lets say 1500? 1600? total.. I mean the difference of a few hundered dollars, IMHO I would go stand alone..

When I first started this swap I wanted to intergrate and run the 24v off my Harness...However..


After comparing the costs and also comparing the benefits and long run details..

I came to the conclusion that I would be better off going with a stand alone, even though I'm going to pay a few hundered more, going stand alone now would eliminate any need of drastic change later on when I go boost.

[will175]

^^ Hey bro you are going with the 12v right? I am thinking of going that route too since it seems like its less work. I just want a/c.

[O2VW1.8T]

^^ Hey bro you are going with the 12v right? I am thinking of going that route too since it seems like its less work. I just want a/c.

It says he's doing 24v swap.




So what is everyone using for the clutch, i was thinking the tilton setup. How streetable is the clutch. Im thinking the carbon/carbon one, also whats the price of the clutch. We know the flywheel is about 800.

Issam the 12v motor mount brackets should fit the B6 correct.

[NYCVR6]

So what is everyone using for the clutch, i was thinking the tilton setup. How streetable is the clutch. Im thinking the carbon/carbon one, also whats the price of the clutch. We know the flywheel is about 800.

The tilton carbon carbon setup is Just under $4000.. Plus $850 or so for the flywheel. Im running it in my car now, best clutch ive ever driven. Feels like stock, very streetable.

http://www.034motorsport.com/product...ducts_id=18994

http://www.034motorsport.com/product...ducts_id=18990

[Issam@INA]

Issam the 12v motor mount brackets should fit the B6 correct.

Which brackets?

[Big Boost]

The tilton carbon carbon setup is Just under $4000.. Plus $850 or so for the flywheel. Im running it in my car now, best clutch ive ever driven. Feels like stock, very streetable.

http://www.034motorsport.com/product...ducts_id=18994

http://www.034motorsport.com/product...ducts_id=18990

This is the last clutch you will ever need. It's technology is based off on Formula One and you my dear Sir are ballin' outta control. $5K for a clutch assembly is outta hand, but if you amortize the investment over 3 years or more, it's worth it. That's how I trying to sell myself into buying it.
Less of this > More of this>.

[wdbdy2000s4]

what's wrong with the regular twin disc tilton that's $1500. It may be a little harsher and it may chatter but for 2500 savings I wouldn't care.

[NYCVR6]

what's wrong with the regular twin disc tilton that's $1500. It may be a little harsher and it may chatter but for 2500 savings I wouldn't care.

I have driven an audi with a sintered iron twin disc, and it is almost undriveable. I had to rev the car to 2000+ to start from a stop, otherwise it would stall. It is so chattery and on/off i literally hated driving it. My car is still a full street car, full interior, navigation, dvd player, etc... Im not going to cheap out on a clutch to make me hate driving the car. I have thought back about the extra money spent on the clutch, and havent regretted it a bit. The carbon/carbon is a full daily driver twin disc. I can start from a stop without touching the gas pedal. I sat in traffic with it already.. If you are going all out on a build like this, might as well go all out right? Hell i spent over $1000 in aluminum fittings alone.. What's a couple grand extra for a clutch?

[NYCVR6]

This is the last clutch you will ever need. It's technology is based off on Formula One and you my dear Sir are ballin' outta control. $5K for a clutch assembly is outta hand, but if you amortize the investment over 3 years or more, it's worth it. That's how I trying to sell myself into buying it.
Less of this > More of this>.

I completely disagree.. See my post above.. It was either pony up for the best clutch or hate driving the car with a sintered iron twin, or worry about the clutch slipping with some BS standard single disc.... We have gotten single disc clutches to hold 600+ whp on VR's but they were dual diaphragm, so the pedal was heavy as shit, and that was on way lighter volkswagens. This clutch i have now, pedal is soft like stock.. Like i said i tried to look back and see if i thought it was a waste of money, i personally think it was the best money i may have spent on this setup.. That or the ballin billet precision 6765..