Who Has cat cams 3652's??? I need your help!!!!URGENT

[AudiA4Turbo22]

thanx guys

[20vturbo]

it depends what you want, I think you should do the 53s.

To the OP, I have these cams with a Tapp tune, Ill let you know how it goes

How much vacuum do you get on idle? From who did you buy them?

[AudiA4_20T]

How much vacuum do you get on idle? From who did you buy them?

car is not running yet but will be soon. I got them from BobQ

[mike-2ptzero]

so what cams are ideal for a 2.0L setup that spins to 8.5k?

Depends on what the car is being used for and were you want most of the power. The mild cams are the right choice for most people that use their cars mainly as a daily driver, the more wild cams are more suited for people that use the car more for racing.

It isn't like the small mild cams in the 250-260 range cant make power, I still run 252/260 schricks and was still able to hold 600whp to 8k. So it isn't like the largest cam possible is needed to make big power, you also have to look at how much lift the cams have which also play a big part in getting more air into the cylinder and most people just look at the duration.


Even the 58's are going to cause a lower vacuum at idle.

[20vturbo]

just by looking at them now I can see that they are not right..Bentley says the roller on the exhaust cam has to be slightly to the left of the notch while on my cams is sitting right on top of it..I just hope that the noise that I hear in the valve train is not from the valves

[dougyfresh]

Well I spoke to eurodyne again this morning and they didn't tune the idle..I am sure there is something wrong with the timing between the 2 cams due to the chain gears
So other cars see 10inhg vacuum at idle with the same cams
I spoke with Mike Unitronic and he's reaching some of his customers that use the same cams to verify it

when I drove the car the valve opened too late so yes I did get some surge very brief after wich the valve opened...

Okay..

Try this..

Verify the adjustable cam gears are in the same position on the cams as the OEM gears on the OEM cams relative to the TDC mark in the OEM cams. Basically, you are verifying the cam teeth for the chain are in the same spot relative to the TDC mark on the cams.... using the OEM as a guide since the OEM cams are dead nuts on (and pressed on).

[mike-2ptzero]

just by looking at them now I can see that they are not right..Bentley says the roller on the exhaust cam has to be slightly to the left of the notch while on my cams is sitting right on top of it..I just hope that the noise that I hear in the valve train is not from the valves

But arent the lobes going to be in a different spot since they have more over lap?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

But arent the lobes going to be in a different spot since they have more over lap?

Yes, that is why the vacuum is so low compared to stock and the rough idle.

I don't see what the problem is. 02VW18T clearly said he had these cams with a regular ecu flash and had the same low vacuum and rough idle, I don't understand the OPs problem.

[20vturbo]

Okay..

Try this..

Verify the adjustable cam gears are in the same position on the cams as the OEM gears on the OEM cams relative to the TDC mark in the OEM cams. Basically, you are verifying the cam teeth for the chain are in the same spot relative to the TDC mark on the cams.... using the OEM as a guide since the OEM cams are dead nuts on (and pressed on).

They are not especially the exhaust one is off...This is what I want to do, zero them in using the oem as a guide...However Mike has a good point about the duration and I sent an email to cat cams to verify this...I believe that in the back of the gear where that screw is, that is the equivalent of the notch for the oem ones

[20vturbo]

Yes, that is why the vacuum is so low compared to stock and the rough idle.

I don't see what the problem is. 02VW18T clearly said he had these cams with a regular ecu flash and had the same low vacuum and rough idle, I don't understand the OPs problem.

Read the whole thread, there are cars that idle at 10inhg of vacuum....If the other guy got them from Bob and they were preset just like mine then yes he would get the same low vacuum as mine, but that doesn't mean it's the correct way to be..Also there is another gti on youtube using the same cams and you can see his gauge, at idle he has 10inhg...When warm my car is hard to start, and what do you do about the cam sensor code in the front of the head?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

I read everything, I think that autronic car is just tuned for them (different timing, rpm idle, etc) allowing 4 or 5inhg more of vacuum.

Im sure there are plenty of people on Vortex though running these cams that you can verify with about their vac at idle and other stuff like their tuning and idle, etc.

[CO AVANT]

and what do you do about the cam sensor code in the front of the head?

I 1/2 cut the keyway in my cam position sensor reluctor ring and over-advanced it ~5-10mm so the right window would sit "flush" with the head of the motor. That got rid of the cam position sensor fault code. I am suspect to believe some of these cams have the keyway cut in the wrong spot...

[mike-2ptzero]

Anyone is doing to tell you that a set of cams with a high amount of overlap is going to have very little vacuum at idle. Its just part of life and why people dont put huge cams in their dailly drivers. I keep trying to tell people this but I guess they would rather listen to Clint when he tells them to run 52's because he is, problem is his car still doesnt run so he has non clue whats its going to run like with those cams.


Whats the point of running huge cams if your not going to take 100% advantage of them, when a set of mild cams are still going to make just as much power at a set power level.

[dirtybrd]

Big cams= hard warm starts, burp the throttle and it'll fire up.

[O2VW1.8T]

Well I spoke to eurodyne again this morning and they didn't tune the idle..I am sure there is something wrong with the timing between the 2 cams due to the chain gears
So other cars see 10inhg vacuum at idle with the same cams
I spoke with Mike Unitronic and he's reaching some of his customers that use the same cams to verify it

when I drove the car the valve opened too late so yes I did get some surge very brief after wich the valve opened...

I think your over thinking it. If it was me i'd be at redline and 20+psi....
2nd day i got my car running i was at the track trapping 96mph in the 1/8th LOL.. My idle like i said before at 4hg of vacuum, when i drove around the parking lot sometimes it felt like i had no brakes cause of no vacuum. bob installed my cams and i installed my cat cam gear.

[20vturbo]

I think your over thinking it. If it was me i'd be at redline and 20+psi....
2nd day i got my car running i was at the track trapping 96mph in the 1/8th LOL.. My idle like i said before at 4hg of vacuum, when i drove around the parking lot sometimes it felt like i had no brakes cause of no vacuum.

who did you buy the cams from??Were yours adjustable billet steel ones?

[AudiA4_20T]

Anyone is doing to tell you that a set of cams with a high amount of overlap is going to have very little vacuum at idle. Its just part of life and why people dont put huge cams in their dailly drivers. I keep trying to tell people this but I guess they would rather listen to Clint when he tells them to run 52's because he is, problem is his car still doesnt run so he has non clue whats its going to run like with those cams.


Whats the point of running huge cams if your not going to take 100% advantage of them, when a set of mild cams are still going to make just as much power at a set power level.

haha thanks Mike. Plenty of people run them and they work fine. The Audi 1.8T doesnt run cams differently than the VW 1.8T. If you want balls out power, the 52s have proven themselves many times

[O2VW1.8T]

who did you buy the cams from??Were yours adjustable billet steel ones?

bobq cast 3652's. I was going to get the billets but they where more expensive and if i remember right this allen screws got loose and cause of damage.

[20vturbo]

bobq cast 3652's. I was going to get the billets but they where more expensive and if i remember right this allen screws got loose and cause of damage.

that's why I put loctite in there
I am now talking with Bob via e mail

[20vturbo]

ok So Bob says they are fine the way they are installed

[dirtybrd]

Did you even raise the idle yet? I bet you'll need at least 200rpm more then stock

[sean1.8t]

ok So Bob says they are fine the way they are installed

i can see why you are checking and rechecking all possible problems with the motor.

a lot of time and money went into that thing, it would suck to trash anything due to mis-timed cams.

so are you going to break it in now?

[20vturbo]

i can see why you are checking and rechecking all possible problems with the motor.

a lot of time and money went into that thing, it would suck to trash anything due to mis-timed cams.

so are you going to break it in now?

YEs believe me I am fuckin recheckin everything, it runs but it needs adjustments

[mike-2ptzero]

haha thanks Mike. Plenty of people run them and they work fine. The Audi 1.8T doesnt run cams differently than the VW 1.8T. If you want balls out power, the 52s have proven themselves many times

But daily driver and balls out power dont exactly go together. This is why there are things you do for a daily driver and things you do for max power for a track/dyno car. 95% of the people here use their car for nothing but a dailly driver so they dont need to go balls out to get the power they are looking for. This is why CAT makes different size cams for the 1.8t, because each car is going to need a different cam for the setup and way the car is going to be used. Just look at Jet Jockey's car, you told him 52's even though other people including Bob told him he needed to go with the more mild set of cams. This is because his car is a road racing car and doesnt exactly need to move the power band to 7500-8500 rpm when he really needs to make most of his power in the mid range like a street car would need.

Just like you dont put a 600hp fmic on a K03. Its pointless.

[20vturbo]

But daily driver and balls out power dont exactly go together. This is why there are things you do for a daily driver and things you do for max power for a track/dyno car. 95% of the people here use their car for nothing but a dailly driver so they dont need to go balls out to get the power they are looking for.

Just like you dont put a 600hp fmic on a K03. Its pointless.

It is drivable every day..Will se Sat if we can tweak the idle a bit...I was just worried about the cams, it doesn't hurt to double check...
I can prob see now why the noisy valve train...with no spark plugs in the motor is so hgard to turn, high lift cams plust stiffer springs, I wonder how often I should change the timing belt

[AudiA4_20T]

But daily driver and balls out power dont exactly go together. This is why there are things you do for a daily driver and things you do for max power for a track/dyno car. 95% of the people here use their car for nothing but a dailly driver so they dont need to go balls out to get the power they are looking for. This is why CAT makes different size cams for the 1.8t, because each car is going to need a different cam for the setup and way the car is going to be used. Just look at Jet Jockey's car, you told him 52's even though other people including Bob told him he needed to go with the more mild set of cams. This is because his car is a road racing car and doesnt exactly need to move the power band to 7500-8500 rpm when he really needs to make most of his power in the mid range like a street car would need.

Just like you dont put a 600hp fmic on a K03. Its pointless.

well your right I must have not meant 52s even if I said it, although Jet Jockeys build is something different altogether. Its not a track car by any means anymore

[20vturbo]

Did you even raise the idle yet? I bet you'll need at least 200rpm more then stock

the idle was not that bad, shakes a bit and it's not smooth like a oem set up but it's not really that rough..Idles at 900rpm...It's the low vacuum that had me worried

[mike-2ptzero]

well your right I must have not meant 52s even if I said it, although Jet Jockeys build is something different altogether. Its not a track car by any means anymore

Not a track car? Thats all it is now seeing that Mike has taken it off the street and only uses it for road racing.

It is drivable every day..Will se Sat if we can tweak the idle a bit...I was just worried about the cams, it doesn't hurt to double check...
I can prob see now why the noisy valve train...with no spark plugs in the motor is so hgard to turn, high lift cams plust stiffer springs, I wonder how often I should change the timing belt

Just be carefull, you might find that the car will want to stall when you lift off the throttle and this will mean no brakes to stop the car. The low vacuum will also have an issue on the brakes. So make sure to give yourself plenty of room when in traffic or coming to a stop. Even Jake found this out with just the 58s.

[dirtybrd]

It's funny how every car is different. I can pump the pedal with my 58s and not lose brake assist.

[mike-2ptzero]

It's funny how every car is different. I can pump the pedal with my 58s and not lose brake assist.

what happens when you just hit the brake pedal 1 time when trying to stop?

[Don Supreme]

Read the whole thread, there are cars that idle at 10inhg of vacuum....If the other guy got them from Bob and they were preset just like mine then yes he would get the same low vacuum as mine, but that doesn't mean it's the correct way to be..Also there is another gti on youtube using the same cams and you can see his gauge, at idle he has 10inhg...When warm my car is hard to start, and what do you do about the cam sensor code in the front of the head?

I ran 3658 cams in my car.

1. Idle vac would fluctuate, but average around 10 hg, when I was on stock ecu. (on stand alone and increased idle timing I had significantly more vac @ idle)

2. The warm start issue that requires pumping the throttle is a tuning thing. When I went stand alone the car warm started without a problem after i tweaked it.

3. The first time I started the engine with the cams, I got a cam code. The problem ended up being that the intake cam needed to be moved over 1 link on the chain side **** code gone.


p.s. That jetta with the 3652 is also running standalone. I know the guy he is local. In fact, I just saw him today.

[20vturbo]

I ran 3658 cams in my car.

1. Idle vac would fluctuate, but average around 10 hg, when I was on stock ecu. (on stand alone and increased idle timing I had significantly more vac @ idle)

2. The warm start issue that requires pumping the throttle is a tuning thing. When I went stand alone the car warm started without a problem after i tweaked it.

3. The first time I started the engine with the cams, I got a cam code. The problem ended up being that the intake cam needed to be moved over 1 link on the chain side **** code gone.


p.s. That jetta with the 3652 is also running standalone. I know the guy he is local. In fact, I just saw him today.

thanks for the input..I don't see those cams on Bob's page...If you can take some pics with the cover off at tdc....

Did you move the intake one tooth on the chain or you had to loosen the bolts on the cam and slide the gear?

[AudiA4Turbo22]

Depends on what the car is being used for and were you want most of the power. The mild cams are the right choice for most people that use their cars mainly as a daily driver, the more wild cams are more suited for people that use the car more for racing.

It isn't like the small mild cams in the 250-260 range cant make power, I still run 252/260 schricks and was still able to hold 600whp to 8k. So it isn't like the largest cam possible is needed to make big power, you also have to look at how much lift the cams have which also play a big part in getting more air into the cylinder and most people just look at the duration.


Even the 58's are going to cause a lower vacuum at idle.

So which would u deem as the right choice for a daily driven 2.0L on a 3076R?

something that can still hold lots of power as u described in ur post. i know u said u run the 252/260 but would u choose that all over again?

[20vturbo]

Not a track car? Thats all it is now seeing that Mike has taken it off the street and only uses it for road racing.



Just be carefull, you might find that the car will want to stall when you lift off the throttle and this will mean no brakes to stop the car. The low vacuum will also have an issue on the brakes. So make sure to give yourself plenty of room when in traffic or coming to a stop. Even Jake found this out with just the 58s.

I drove the car and it didn't have that issue, the idle is sustainable...I engine brake most of the time also...I need to find a check valve for the line going to the brake booster, have any ideea where I can find one that will not blow under boost?

[mike-2ptzero]

I drove the car and it didn't have that issue, the idle is sustainable...I engine brake most of the time also...I need to find a check valve for the line going to the brake booster, have any ideea where I can find one that will not blow under boost?

I am not exactly at sea level(around 1200 ft) so that could be the difference. When Jake first tried to hit the brakes in front of my house the care pretty much didnt want to stop and he let me know it.

Here is the info for the 58's, but basically its just a mix of cams with a intake from the 52 and exhaust from the 51.

You can find that info on the cat can web site http://www.catcams.be/index.htm

So which would u deem as the right choice for a daily driven 2.0L on a 3076R?

something that can still hold lots of power as u described in ur post. i know u said u run the 252/260 but would u choose that all over again?

The Schrick cams are a great mild street cam setup. For cat cams your best choice would be 51 or 53, but you could go 58s if you want more hp in the higher rpms with a little less bottom end.

If you are intersted in my Schricks let me know because I am thinking about testing out some Cat 58 or 52's in my car to see how they compare to the schricks.

[dirtybrd]

what happens when you just hit the brake pedal 1 time when trying to stop?

It stops. What else would it do? There are a set of Schricks in the classifieds right now for $200 with 2k miles on them.

[mike-2ptzero]

It stops. What else would it do? There are a set of Schricks in the classifieds right now for $200 with 2k miles on them.

Which ones though? Becasue there was a guy selling the larger set and someone just grabbed them up. The 252/260's go for $1k brand new, so its a little odd if someone is selling a set for $200 with just 2k miles on them. Something might be wrong with them or the person has so much money they dont care what they get for them. But hey you never know, could be someone selling stock cams as schricks. Plus its really hard to know how many miles are on cams, not like they have a gauge. lol

[dirtybrd]

Those were the ones.
http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/...t=13490&cat=21

[A4 TSCHUSS]

It stops. What else would it do? There are a set of Schricks in the classifieds right now for $200 with 2k miles on them.

What!!!! Like Mike said, Schricks are expensive, it is kinda weird too that very little people have them. Myself and Mike on here then you look around on Vortex and you don't see them around to much there either.

[dirtybrd]

There was a set, they were still unsold yestarday. If I had the cash I would have bought them!