JHM Longtube Header Thread

[42of250]

someone said 40 hp gain with these.....whats that guys smoking?

This maybe actually possible IF you have pretty much all the other bolt ons known to man and really good tune

[AudiOso]

I'm curious to see what the dyno numbers come back at for a car with the headers and exhaust with the intake work. Is JHM developing their own exhaust as well? Seeing as how they're in the CA market it will be interesting to see if they get a C.A.R.B. exemption for the headers that have cats. That's gonna suck if their halo product isn't available for such a huge tuner market like the Cali scene.

[cabracco85]

I'm curious to see what the dyno numbers come back at for a car with the headers and exhaust with the intake work. Is JHM developing their own exhaust as well? Seeing as how they're in the CA market it will be interesting to see if they get a C.A.R.B. exemption for the headers that have cats. That's gonna suck if their halo product isn't available for such a huge tuner market like the Cali scene.

Why are you even on this page if everything you have to say is negative? Just a year ago there was barelly any mods for the b6/b7 and now that someone has stepped up to the plate your gunna try and pick apart his products??? It just amazes me how many people complain about no parts, and then when they start getting somewhere all the negative people have to come out. I

[ItzDarrellS4]

Why are you even on this page if everything you have to say is negative? Just a year ago there was barelly any mods for the b6/b7 and now that someone has stepped up to the plate your gunna try and pick apart his products??? It just amazes me how many people complain about no parts, and then when they start getting somewhere all the negative people have to come out. I

if its not him, it'd be someone else. someones gotta play devils advocate..... and Audioso, from what Ive read makes some pretty valid points.

edit: lets not get off topic like all the other aftermarket threads.

[serumk]

I agree, though - it's frustrating when mod parts start to arrive in reasonable numbers, and then you get all the buzzkills coming out of the woodwork saying it'll never work.

[cabracco85]

if its not him, it'd be someone else. someones gotta play devils advocate..... and Audioso, from what Ive read makes some pretty valid points.

edit: lets not get off topic like all the other aftermarket threads.

He does make good points. Lets get back on topic.

[42of250]

it doesnt matter what he says he doesnt have to buy, those who are excited can go out and buy it, he's intitled to his own opinion just like we are. And yes JHM is coming out with their own exhaust, when..i dont know

[littleredwagen]

He does make good points. Lets get back on topic.

he does, it has to be said sometime. discussion is a healthy thing. so back to the topic of headers.

[ItzDarrellS4]

so back to the topic of headers.

[cabracco85]

Also we might be able to just drop down the craddle to get to the headers. There is a hoist that you would need to use for it. We will have to wait for jay to confirm if this will work or if the engine has to come out. Hopefully we can just lower the engine. I plan on getting headers around te same time i do the clutch/flywheel depending on if i have the funds for it all. So its like killing 2 birds with one stone.

[littleredwagen]

Also we might be able to just drop down the craddle to get to the headers. There is a hoist that you would need to use for it. We will have to wait for jay to confirm if this will work or if the engine has to come out. Hopefully we can just lower the engine. I plan on getting headers around te same time i do the clutch/flywheel depending on if i have the funds for it all. So its like killing 2 birds with one stone.

you could drop the entire thing onto a pallet jack and wheel it away from the car, negating the for a lift, just up on 4 jackstands. I did it back in the day with VW MK3

[earhythmic]

so back to the topic of headers.

isn't what Audioso said directly on topic ??? He asked about CARB exemption and cats pertaining to..what? Oh yea..THE HEADERS. Everything he said is valid and should be discussed.

[ItzDarrellS4]

I'm curious to see what the dyno numbers come back at for a car with the headers and exhaust with the intake work. Is JHM developing their own exhaust as well? Seeing as how they're in the CA market it will be interesting to see if they get a C.A.R.B. exemption for the headers that have cats. That's gonna suck if their halo product isn't available for such a huge tuner market like the Cali scene.

Why are you even on this page if everything you have to say is negative? Just a year ago there was barelly any mods for the b6/b7 and now that someone has stepped up to the plate your gunna try and pick apart his products??? It just amazes me how many people complain about no parts, and then when they start getting somewhere all the negative people have to come out. I

someones gotta play devils advocate..... and Audioso, from what Ive read makes some pretty valid points.

I agree

He does make good points

he does, it has to be said sometime. discussion is a healthy thing.

isn't what Audioso said directly on topic ??? He asked about CARB exemption and cats pertaining to..what? Oh yea..THE HEADERS. Everything he said is valid and should be discussed.

everyone here was defending his post from what cabracco was saying, even then did Cabracco agree Audi0so has valid points.

that is all

[cabracco85]

isn't what Audioso said directly on topic ??? He asked about CARB exemption and cats pertaining to..what? Oh yea..THE HEADERS. Everything he said is valid and should be discussed.

Yes that stuff is on topic, but bringing the supercharger into the thread is not.

[earhythmic]

Yes that stuff is on topic, but bringing the supercharger into the thread is not.

ok fair enough..but the last two posts are still not "back on topic".

So what about that CARB exemption??

[cabracco85]

ok fair enough..but the last two posts are still not "back on topic".

So what about that CARB exemption??

Do you think that someone from the emission place will have a good enough eye to actually see that the headers are on there?

[serumk]

Do you think that someone from the emission place will have a good enough eye to actually see that the headers are on there?

Depends - most things under your car aren't shiny like those headers... maybe some disguising?

[DuncanC]

I would think if your running headers and a catback the guy at the emissions place will know pretty damn quick that your car isn't running a stock exhaust system. That fact that it sounds like a race car might tip him off. :-)

[42of250]

i wonder if you would get any gains purely from heat wrapping them since a good portion of the mods are based around keeping our HOT v8 cool

[cabracco85]

I would think if your running headers and a catback the guy at the emissions place will know pretty damn quick that your car isn't running a stock exhaust system. That fact that it sounds like a race car might tip him off. :-)

Yeah but how many guys go in with just catbacks? Doesnt mean they will look for headers right away. It is hard to see down there to even get a glimpse at them.

[cabracco85]

i wonder if you would get any gains purely from heat wrapping them since a good portion of the mods are based around keeping our HOT v8 cool

Heat wrapping is almost a must for any performance headers on a car that makes this much heat under the hood. You can get them ceramic coated or wrapped. I would just wrap them as it is cheaper and doesnt flake off if you hit them while installing them. Or you can do both to help with the heat, might be over kill but it would work.

[sway]

Thank god for georgia, no emissions
Bad thing for georgia, all the good tuners are in cali
I hope that with the headers, cb, cams, ported intake manifold, lightweight pulleys, and proper tune reach mid 400's on crank hp (whatever that equates to in whp). If it's better than that, sweeeeeet.

[AudiOso]

I'm not bashing these guys. I think their work on the B6/B7 platform is fantastic. I just, as a potential consumer, have to ask questions about how viable the product is from a consumer's perspective. The most amazing product in the world isn't viable if it is out of the financial reach of most consumers.

The headers themselves are not over-priced from the numbers I'm reading. It's the installation costs that are possibly prohibitive for many potential buyers. I'm not Joe mechanic anymore. I'm 45, I work 60 hours a week and drive 3 hours a day back and forth to work. I don't have the time on the weekend to tear the engine out of my car. I really want this to work. I just need to see a way to make it work financially. If I have to spend $3500 to install headers then no matter how I look at it even if I can gain 50-60 hp with intake work I'm paying $6000 for 60 hp and that works out to $100/hp.

If on the other hand I can spend $10,000 on an installed supercharger and gain 160 hp my money is much better spent. That's the only point I'm trying to make. I'm not bashing these guys or their hard work. It is in my best interest to see them succeed. That means more options for the development of my vehicle.

What I really want is a supercharged car with full exhaust. I may have to choose. That's life. Some other guys may be more financially or mechanically well off than me. They will likely have a nicer car in the end. Oh well... there's nothing I can do about it. I still want either a S4 Cabrio or late 928 of some flavor if I can swing it. I have to make choices. That's all. I really feel badly that the guys around here are thinking that I don't appreciate JHM. I think they make some of the best products for the B6/B7 cars period. I never meant for people to think that I felt otherwise.

[sway]

I actually had the same thought about making it easier by just buying a supercharger. It'll probably cost about the same if not more to gain that 160hp any other way, but I prefer the reliability more. If I can do both, then it's GAME ON.

[serumk]

My immediate thought is that I'd prefer nitrous (like JHM's working on) to a supercharger because the additional strain on the motor is only occurring when the nitrous is activated. I can't activate/deactivate a supercharger while I'm driving (at least not cheaply), and the nitrous is bound to be less expensive than a supercharger+installation.

Just a thought. Sorry to change topics again.

[04v8s4]

Im going to agree with the last few posters. These headers just aren't worth the cost and aggravation. You are talking about 3500 bucks for headers and install...all to gain 15-20 whp? Not for me.

Also...my toy is a '91 mustang with a build heads, cam, intake v8. I am running long tubes, off road x-pipe, and 2 chamber flowmasters and the car is insanely loud. Its not a pleasure to drive on a daily basis. It constantly sets off car alarms, it's rediculous on the highway, i have to tip toe around the police. It really is outrageously loud...and doesn't have a particularly great tone to it...just BARKING LOUD.

I dont want that kind of noise on my luxury sport sedan....especially if i only gain 5-15 awhp over a good downpipe setup.

[cabracco85]

I'm not bashing these guys. I think their work on the B6/B7 platform is fantastic. I just, as a potential consumer, have to ask questions about how viable the product is from a consumer's perspective. The most amazing product in the world isn't viable if it is out of the financial reach of most consumers.

The headers themselves are not over-priced from the numbers I'm reading. It's the installation costs that are possibly prohibitive for many potential buyers. I'm not Joe mechanic anymore. I'm 45, I work 60 hours a week and drive 3 hours a day back and forth to work. I don't have the time on the weekend to tear the engine out of my car. I really want this to work. I just need to see a way to make it work financially. If I have to spend $3500 to install headers then no matter how I look at it even if I can gain 50-60 hp with intake work I'm paying $6000 for 60 hp and that works out to $100/hp.

If on the other hand I can spend $10,000 on an installed supercharger and gain 160 hp my money is much better spent. That's the only point I'm trying to make. I'm not bashing these guys or their hard work. It is in my best interest to see them succeed. That means more options for the development of my vehicle.

What I really want is a supercharged car with full exhaust. I may have to choose. That's life. Some other guys may be more financially or mechanically well off than me. They will likely have a nicer car in the end. Oh well... there's nothing I can do about it. I still want either a S4 Cabrio or late 928 of some flavor if I can swing it. I have to make choices. That's all. I really feel badly that the guys around here are thinking that I don't appreciate JHM. I think they make some of the best products for the B6/B7 cars period. I never meant for people to think that I felt otherwise.

From the looks of it the s/c will be around 9500 not installed. SO you have to figure in that amount of money too, so the s/c is looking more like 11k to 12k if not more to have it installed. They would have to pratically take the whole front end off to get to the pulley and all of the other items. (atleast in the pics). It is not a deff that you have to take the whole engine out, hopefully you can just drop it down. Plus if you s/c it you might aswell factor in a clutch upgrade, so there is more money. Might aswell pull everything out and install it all at once.

[AudiOso]

I have figured that the only way the headers would make sense for me would be as part of a clutch upgrade. From what I've read the S/C is supposed to be in the $9k range and the install about $1.5k. If on the other hand the headers are doable by dropping the subframe then they become a lot more realistic.

I don't launch my cars, I don't pound them. While in the long-run I would need a clutch upgrade to handle the pure torque of the S/C, I think what I have now would last at least another 10k miles or so. As a window into what I do with my cars, I drove my S4 2000 miles last year. I drove my TT 1800 miles. I know some guys think it's crazy, but I want nice toys that have low miles that I play with a few weekends out of the summer. To further put in perspective, I bought my Avant in November of 07' with 70k on the clock. I now am pushing 98k. I live in that car. It's a 1.8T with a Tip. Boy oh boy do I appreciate my S4 when I drive it.

Anyway... sorry to be off topic to some degree, but my question is how do you make the headers affordable for what you gain? If I plan to stay NA then headers will have to be part of my game plan because this engine does not breathe enough as it left the factory. The intake is restrictive and the stock manifolds are a joke. Sermunk's idea about Nitrous is interesting, but I've always been afraid of it, especially on an engine with 10.5:1 compression. The reason I like the S/C so much as an idea is it's low p.s.i.

[serumk]

I have figured that the only way the headers would make sense for me would be as part of a clutch upgrade. From what I've read the S/C is supposed to be in the $9k range and the install about $1.5k. If on the other hand the headers are doable by dropping the subframe then they become a lot more realistic.

I don't launch my cars, I don't pound them. While in the long-run I would need a clutch upgrade to handle the pure torque of the S/C, I think what I have now would last at least another 10k miles or so. As a window into what I do with my cars, I drove my S4 2000 miles last year. I drove my TT 1800 miles. I know some guys think it's crazy, but I want nice toys that have low miles that I play with a few weekends out of the summer. To further put in perspective, I bought my Avant in November of 07' with 70k on the clock. I now am pushing 98k. I live in that car. It's a 1.8T with a Tip. Boy oh boy do I appreciate my S4 when I drive it.

Anyway... sorry to be off topic to some degree, but my question is how do you make the headers affordable for what you gain? If I plan to stay NA then headers will have to be part of my game plan because this engine does not breathe enough as it left the factory. The intake is restrictive and the stock manifolds are a joke. Sermunk's idea about Nitrous is interesting, but I've always been afraid of it, especially on an engine with 10.5:1 compression. The reason I like the S/C so much as an idea is it's low p.s.i.

I should make the disclosure that I will never put a supercharger on my car, and it would be HIGHLY unlikely I'd put nitrous on my car, because I would be afraid of doing damage. I would do headers, though.

[cabracco85]

I have figured that the only way the headers would make sense for me would be as part of a clutch upgrade. From what I've read the S/C is supposed to be in the $9k range and the install about $1.5k. If on the other hand the headers are doable by dropping the subframe then they become a lot more realistic.

I don't launch my cars, I don't pound them. While in the long-run I would need a clutch upgrade to handle the pure torque of the S/C, I think what I have now would last at least another 10k miles or so. As a window into what I do with my cars, I drove my S4 2000 miles last year. I drove my TT 1800 miles. I know some guys think it's crazy, but I want nice toys that have low miles that I play with a few weekends out of the summer. To further put in perspective, I bought my Avant in November of 07' with 70k on the clock. I now am pushing 98k. I live in that car. It's a 1.8T with a Tip. Boy oh boy do I appreciate my S4 when I drive it.

Anyway... sorry to be off topic to some degree, but my question is how do you make the headers affordable for what you gain? If I plan to stay NA then headers will have to be part of my game plan because this engine does not breathe enough as it left the factory. The intake is restrictive and the stock manifolds are a joke. Sermunk's idea about Nitrous is interesting, but I've always been afraid of it, especially on an engine with 10.5:1 compression. The reason I like the S/C so much as an idea is it's low p.s.i.

If your not gunna drive the car hard then why even make a fuss about headers? These are going to be for the guys that want to make more power when they have outflowed the stock manifolds. Your best bet would be leave your car stock that way in the long run it would be worth more money. It is money we are talking about here thats what you big concern is. Then leave it stock fro teh long run so it will be worth more down the road. As for the low boost setting if the car is not tuned right it can still blow up on low boost setting. Dont think that just becasue it is low boost you will be fine. As for the s/c that would still be in the 11k range. If you cant do the work yourself then you have to pay to play. If you think you can get headers built for cheaper and installed then go ahead and do that.

[sway]

JHM is talking about doing engine internals down the road as well. You might want to reconsider. It would be nice if they came out with a sc and slightly lower compression piston kit. I know lots of people that treat the cars as such. The previous owner of mine worked for Audi, and took really good care of the car. I drive it like it's stolen. I enjoy it a bit better like that.

[cabracco85]

I should make the disclosure that I will never put a supercharger on my car, and it would be HIGHLY unlikely I'd put nitrous on my car, because I would be afraid of doing damage. I would do headers, though.

Nitrous is safe when done right. And if jay does like all of his other products it will be done right.

[AudiOso]

I don't want a stock car. I want a wicked fast car that I can enjoy when I drive it. I don't care about resale value because I'm not planning on letting the car go. Not everyone who builds a fast car drives it every day. Look at some of the guys in the Hot Rod scene. They build ferocious cars with awesome paint work and custom interiors for thousands of dollars. They don't drive the piss out of them most of the time.

I'm not knocking anyone else for what they want to do with their car. I'm merely looking at the cost benefit ratio of a given upgrade as compared to another. For as long as I plan on keeping the car it is going to end up with headers at some point more than likely. I just think that I'm going to go the forced induction route so airflow is less of an issue when you're running boost as p.s.i. makes up for many shortcomings in of itself. Plus... I like the whine of a S/C.

[cabracco85]

JHM is talking about doing engine internals down the road as well. You might want to reconsider. It would be nice if they came out with a sc and slightly lower compression piston kit. I know lots of people that treat the cars as such. The previous owner of mine worked for Audi, and took really good care of the car. I drive it like it's stolen. I enjoy it a bit better like that.

If youre gunna mod your car you might aswell drive it hard. If it is just gunna be babied then why spend all of that money on the car? I drive my car they way it was designed to be driven. I just dont see the point in spending money on something you wont even use or take advantage of.

[serumk]

Nitrous is safe when done right. And if jay does like all of his other products it will be done right.

I know. I have full confidence in Jay and his team. I carefully worded my earlier post. I didn't say it was dangerous - I said I was afraid. I am not saying my fear is rational. I think JHM is going to produce a safe, and really fun nitrous kit, and if I did put nitrous on the car, I'd get it from JHM, but I would have to have a mental battle with myself before I did it.

[cabracco85]

I don't want a stock car. I want a wicked fast car that I can enjoy when I drive it. I don't care about resale value because I'm not planning on letting the car go. Not everyone who builds a fast car drives it every day. Look at some of the guys in the Hot Rod scene. They build ferocious cars with awesome paint work and custom interiors for thousands of dollars. They don't drive the piss out of them most of the time.

I'm not knocking anyone else for what they want to do with their car. I'm merely looking at the cost benefit ratio of a given upgrade as compared to another. For as long as I plan on keeping the car it is going to end up with headers at some point more than likely. I just think that I'm going to go the forced induction route so airflow is less of an issue when you're running boost as p.s.i. makes up for many shortcomings in of itself. Plus... I like the whine of a S/C.

well then take the whining out of here and go to the s/c thread. just kidding. when you out flow the stockers and want more power then im sure youll be looking into a good header design at that point.

[sway]

If youre gunna mod your car you might aswell drive it hard. If it is just gunna be babied then why spend all of that money on the car? I drive my car they way it was designed to be driven. I just dont see the point in spending money on something you wont even use or take advantage of.

I might be in need of correction, but driving it like its stolen means hard, right? I couldn't tell if you agreed or disagreed.

[cabracco85]

I know. I have full confidence in Jay and his team. I carefully worded my earlier post. I didn't say it was dangerous - I said I was afraid. I am not saying my fear is rational. I think JHM is going to produce a safe, and really fun nitrous kit, and if I did put nitrous on the car, I'd get it from JHM, but I would have to have a mental battle with myself before I did it.

I know what you was saying. Alot of people have the wrong idea about nitrous and think bad things about it. But in reality it can be a very cheap and fast way to gain alot of power.

[cabracco85]

I might be in need of correction, but driving it like its stolen means hard, right? I couldn't tell if you agreed or disagreed.

I do drive my car hard at times, but thats only when i dont have my daughter with me. Shes is with me alot of the times i take my car out of the garage though.

[serumk]

I know what you was saying. Alot of people have the wrong idea about nitrous and think bad things about it. But in reality it can be a very cheap and fast way to gain alot of power.

Agreed. I have been keeping up with the nitrous thread, and appreciate the caution that Jay is taking with it, IE: "We're going to make sure it's safe and reliable at 150 shot before we release a 100 shot," etc. A lot of companies just throw something together (they might not even test it much), and let 'er rip. It's impressive (as always, with JHM) to see that time and care are being taken to make a kit specifically for the vehicle.