here are what the stock headers look like, as you can see they dont look like they belong on a v8:
and some more pics of what real headers should look like ;)
more pics and video to come...
Had to comment one more time! WOW, Awesome work! It took a couple mustang guys to get our cars into the 12's.(if they havent yet..they will)Love it!I owned a couple quick 92' stangs(full street with AC 11.7 and a 13.00) and always wondered why our S4s couldn't get a couple of these main mods we did 1st our stangs.Long tube headers,h-pipe/x-pipe,2 chamber flows..that alwyas seemed to be the first. What next guys?????... Bigger throttle body, mass air meter,ported-extrude honed upper/lower intake??????? You guys/girls(if there are)at JHM have been breathing new life into the NA 4.2!!! Thanks for all the reasearch and develompent!
So I take it that this is going to require dropping the engine to do this upgrade. Any idea of what kinds of gains for what will likely end up costing $4000 to $4500 by the time you buy the headers and pay for the install?
A couple of Audi's later...
"It's a false state of elation... You can join the Prozac nation... If you want to..." - Killing Joke
downpipes sales.....dropping 300% a minute......hahahahaa
loving them post a video soon i wanna hear it so bad...
lol very true, i was seriously considering some APR dp's since they are having their spring sale and after being without my milltek dp's for awhile (grrRRrrrRRR)
might have to put that off and see what JHM comes out with
Figuring $2500 for the headers and about $1500 for the install that's about $100/hp. The VF supercharger is looking like $10k installed and a pretty strong indication of a 140 - 150 hp gain. That's about $67/hp optimistically.
I'm not knocking the product. They look like beautiful headers. They just seem like an expensive mod for the gains.
A couple of Audi's later...
"It's a false state of elation... You can join the Prozac nation... If you want to..." - Killing Joke
My install will cost me 0$ as im just going to do it myself so that's a good price for me. There are several other people that can and will do this themselves. Also install of this is just about free if you are doing a timing service on the car. Witch at this point is going to be more frequent. Also we might see the same swing on the install labor as we see on the Dp's. labor for the install is TBD for some that will have them installed.
For most people if you were counting hp per dollar we would have sold the car long ago. At some point we are going to run out of cost effective options. But this is not like the intake spacers where 90% of the people can do the install in the drive way. But for me doing the install on a set of 1900$ Dp's or spending more time to install a set of 2500$ full length headers. The headers just make WAY more since So for me this is totally worth it and at that point the Hp Vs dollar ratio is MUCH better then the supercharger. for those that can't do the work them self or don't know a good mechanic your point of view might be much different as the case of some. Either way its good to see the option there.
Last edited by Justincredible; 03-15-2009 at 06:26 AM.
If you don't have haters, then you're not kicking enough ass.
AMA and YES! Together we can all defeat 2.0t and 2.7t crime...
And lastly for the grammar police that are bound to step in
I came here from Germany in the 6th grade. I could not read or write a lick of English. I am working to get better. Thanks and sorry. I always try to edit my posts for the best grammar and easiest reading.
My install will cost me 0$ as im just going to do it myself so that's a good price for me. There are several other people that can and will do this themselves. Also install of this is just about free if you are doing a timing service on the car. Witch at this point is going to be more frequent. Also we might see the same swing on the install labor as we see on the Dp's. labor for the install is TBD for some that will have them installed.
For most people if you were counting hp per dollar we would have sold the car long ago. At some point we are going to run out of cost effective options. But this is not like the intake spacers where 90% of the people can do the install in the drive way. But for me doing the install on a set of 1900$ Dp's or spending more time to install a set of 2500$ full length headers. The headers just make WAY more since So for me this is totally worth it and at that point the Hp Vs dollar ratio is MUCH better then the supercharger. for those that can't do the work them self or don't know a good mechanic your point of view might be much different as the case of some. Either way its good to see the option there.
I agree, if you are not ahppy with the price go out and do some designing and then see how much it truelly cost to get a set up like this made. I think the last guy that was going to sell header wanted 4k for his headers and they would have to be shipped from over seas. And that wouldnt include install either. And if you are counting hp/$ better sell the s and go and get a mustang or a camaro or something like that.
Thanks again JHM for making a product that is worth our while.
My install will cost me 0$ as im just going to do it myself so that's a good price for me. There are several other people that can and will do this themselves. Also install of this is just about free if you are doing a timing service on the car. Witch at this point is going to be more frequent. Also we might see the same swing on the install labor as we see on the Dp's. labor for the install is TBD for some that will have them installed.
For most people if you were counting hp per dollar we would have sold the car long ago. At some point we are going to run out of cost effective options. But this is not like the intake spacers where 90% of the people can do the install in the drive way. But for me doing the install on a set of 1900$ Dp's or spending more time to install a set of 2500$ full length headers. The headers just make WAY more since So for me this is totally worth it and at that point the Hp Vs dollar ratio is MUCH better then the supercharger. for those that can't do the work them self or don't know a good mechanic your point of view might be much different as the case of some. Either way its good to see the option there.
I'm not knocking the product at all. I'm just saying that I'd rather spend the money on the supercharger and pick up a significant gain in horsepower as opposed to an incremental gain from exhaust work. The dp's or piggies make more sense to me because they don't require the labor of dropping an engine to install them. The headers themselves are beautiful pieces of work and I'm sure that JHM is going sell them. There are a lot of guys to whom no gain isn't worth the price of admission. I just have to live within a budget and get the most bang for my buck. I've chosen to maintain three cars and have the desire to mod all three of them so I have to pick and choose what I'm going to do and make it count.
In the end I'm going to end up doing exhaust work and who knows? Down the road I might pick up a set of headers if the price is right for a used set someday and I have the cash to drop the engine (I probably would do that at the time I'd do a clutch upgrade.) It's just that like I said, I have to strike a balance with my cars. I'm also looking at S4 cabrios. I'm selling my Miata and my VW pickup and once I pay off my Avant plan on starting some serious shopping for a drop-top B6 S4.
A couple of Audi's later...
"It's a false state of elation... You can join the Prozac nation... If you want to..." - Killing Joke
1 The dp's or piggies make more sense to me because they don't require the labor of dropping an engine to install them.
2 There are a lot of guys to whom no gain isn't worth the price of admission.
3I just have to live within a budget and get the most bang for my buck.
I know you aren't knocking them
But my point is there are going to be 2 camps here and thats ok. For me 1,2,3 its just the opposite 1 it doesn't make sence for me cause I would rather install the headers myself then the Dp's 2 The price of admission is 5x higher for the supercharger and isn't for me right now at that price 3 We all have to live with in a budget and IMHO the best bang for the buck is going to be the JHM NOS kit so Ill install the headers and wait for that lol
I definitely see where you are coming from. The perspective of best route is based off of what you can do yourself and what seems to be the best way to spend your money to get there
If you don't have haters, then you're not kicking enough ass.
AMA and YES! Together we can all defeat 2.0t and 2.7t crime...
And lastly for the grammar police that are bound to step in
I came here from Germany in the 6th grade. I could not read or write a lick of English. I am working to get better. Thanks and sorry. I always try to edit my posts for the best grammar and easiest reading.
Oh I definitely want it all. I am in my cars for the long haul. I bought my S4 with the thought that I'd have it 15-20 years from now. I deliberately keep the miles low on both my TT and S4. I drive the shit out of my Avant.
I will likely end up with all these goodies at some point. It's just a matter of what goes first. I won't be doing any engine mods for the next two years because my CPO is in effect until March of 2011. I am not voiding that warranty by changing downpipes or adding a supercharger. This is fine because the delta will be perfect when that warranty ends. I will have all my bills paid. My Avant will be long paid off, and I can then start investing in the buildup of my S4. I want to see the real-world results of folks running the VF supercharger and how well the internals of these cars hold up to 6 psi of boost and of course what the tweaked setups **** which everyone knows will show up as soon as the kit is released **** fare among the S4 population.
I also want to snag a B6 S4 Cabrio while the getting is still good for low mileage cars. So my plate is full. For now I'm happy to do my brake upgrades and a cat-back which the car will need at any rate. I've already talked to my service manager and he said a cat-back won't void my CPO.
For the guys who are going to pioneer the real development of the 4.2 litre platform, I tip my hat. This is an expensive car to mod. The fact that they are at a price delta where guys can afford them now is nice, but the upkeep on them is high and the cost to improve on them is up there. I wish all my fellow gearheads who love these cars the best luck with their endeavors as in the end we all want the same thing. Wicked fast cars that drive better than 95% of the cars out there.
A couple of Audi's later...
"It's a false state of elation... You can join the Prozac nation... If you want to..." - Killing Joke
I would estimate that adding the long tubes alone would net somewhere around 15 whp. The gains will be just slightly better than adding downpipes. What you will most likely see is a healthy gain in torque area under the curve.
I would imagine that you wont see the full benefits from longtubes until something can be done about the stock intake tract/manifold.
I was at my dealership today because the glass company that did the rear window on my Avant messed up the tailgate so I was waiting for the manager of the glass shop to meet me there so he could look at the damage that the tech did to my car.
While I was waiting I saw a B6 S4 Avant on the lift with the engine out. The car had developed a coolant leak that required the engine to be pulled. I asked the service manager how much the bill was for the R&I of the drivetrain and he said that they were into it for $4k. The only way headers are gonna make any sense will be if an indie shop does the install unless there is a way to get these into the car without dropping the engine. My question is, how many shops have the equipment to pull the drivetrain correctly? I'm curious.
It's not that I want to rain on everyone's parade. I think it's awesome that someone is actually developing parts for this platform. It's just that it's so friggin' expensive to do anything on these beasts because of the tight confines of the engine compartment. It really sucks because these headers are gorgeous and I would love to hear a car with them and a nice exhaust.
A couple of Audi's later...
"It's a false state of elation... You can join the Prozac nation... If you want to..." - Killing Joke
I don't see how that's possible? What would you use to get the drivetrain down and out of the car? A cherry picker? Doesn't the subframe have to stay with the drivetrain? I applaud anyone who has the cajones to do their own engine R&I, and about 20 years ago I might have tried something like this, but I'm too fat and old to even entertain the thought of it these days. This doesn't look like a weekend project.
A couple of Audi's later...
"It's a false state of elation... You can join the Prozac nation... If you want to..." - Killing Joke
here are what the stock headers look like, as you can see they dont look like they belong on a v8:
and some more pics of what real headers should look like ;)
Bravest- The stock manifolds are an extremely significant choking point on this cars exhaust. Its like getting grabbed in the throat.. you cant breath while your being choked and only one small part of your esophagus is being restricted.. its the same thing with exhaust. These headers will prove to have substantial gains Guaranteed.
Items for sale PM me for details:
A6/Allroad 4.2 V8 top end
Bravest- The stock manifolds are an extremely significant choking point on this cars exhaust. Its like getting grabbed in the throat.. you cant breath while your being choked and only one small part of your esophagus is being restricted.. its the same thing with exhaust. These headers will prove to have substantial gains Guaranteed.
Mmmmm, I didn't realize they were THAT restrictive.... I should've notice in the pictures!!
You can pull the motor in your driveway on jackstands with a normal set of mechanics tools...
I actually have pulled a B6 motor and trans in one piece. Its not that hard. You just need confidence time and the correct tools. lol todeshandler is spot on. I did it with jack stands and two jacks. Mind you it was not my car and I was helping him for free so I felt more comfortable at the time. But I will be doing the same thing when I install my headers.
As for the dealer. I would seriously never take my car to the dealer for something like this. My friend works at the dealer and is doing some work out of his garage (thus helping on the B6 motor pull) it is amazing the stuff the dealer doesn't know and what they charge you to do the work
If you don't have haters, then you're not kicking enough ass.
AMA and YES! Together we can all defeat 2.0t and 2.7t crime...
And lastly for the grammar police that are bound to step in
I came here from Germany in the 6th grade. I could not read or write a lick of English. I am working to get better. Thanks and sorry. I always try to edit my posts for the best grammar and easiest reading.
Originally Posted by beecha91
Reply With Quote
haha
Bookmarks