JHM Longtube Header Thread

[beemercer]

people spend 2500 on wheels that don't offer any performance benefit

x1000

[beemercer]

Due to some people more interested in Drama then results this info got lost.

Here are your Dyno results. 40+ ft-lbs TO THE WHEELS the tq comes in over 1000 rpm sooner and holds for longer. The Hp is about 30hp more AT THE WHEELS and extends past the stock 6200rpm.

The best part is this was an indepent dyno test from a customer not from JHM.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=62

Although Im more interested in the track numbers this is impressive for all the dyno lovers

And for those of you that are wondering about how well this stacks up againsed Dp's

The dp gave 22tq but at the same RPM as normal. All this info is baised off 91oct.

The overall Tq results will be more with better gas. so on 91oct you get 40+ tw to the wheels.

That bump to low end torque is the key, such a large increase in the area under the curve.

And more importantly than what the headers themselves do for power increases, is the fact that they are the foundation for any more involved engine modifications. A more efficient intake tract (intake manifold, cams, head work, port and polish, larger throttle bodies, etc) are not going to be able to work to the their full potential unless all that extra air flowing into the motor can flow out, it's a simple matter of conservation of mass and fluid mechanics.

[beemercer]

LOL... Yep, right on man. I would say $2500 is about average on wheels. Before tires. And lots of people I know, I've seen them spend $4K on wheels alone, before tires.

Spending money is all about what is important (based totally on OPINION and personal preference) to the owner of a car. When I bought headers I would have been happy if they made 15 ft/lb torque at the wheels. They are doing a whole lot more than that as proved on an automatic car (more drivetrain loss than a manual). So I think, considering a DP/Catback setup runs at least $3500 new, that the headers are pretty sweet if you are buying exhaust components to make power.

Great point; I spent $500 for carbon fiber trim, $120 for some RS4 pedals, $100 for a shift knob and e-brake handle (all of which were crazy deals, should've been more like $1200 all together). There are guys here who spend well north of $1000 on a steering wheel, but honestly who cares, it's their money, it makes them happy, so it shouldn't matter. But now that I have finished working on my interior to my satisfaction (just enough to make it a bit different), I'm gonna invest in some performance parts.

[jaybquick@JHM]

Like others have said we don't play the dyno game. However our customer 10mpgS4 did take his car to the dyno. He saw awesome Torque gains, just like you would expect with longtube headers. We are excited to see the HP possibilities once we finalize an intake manifold solution to let the engine inhale the air, since the headers are helping it exhale very well already.



Since the data was dropped in our lap here are 2 images courtesy of 034 Motorsport's dyno. Our customer dynoed when we weren't present. Also it was done on a dyno day with a ton of people there. Special thanks to Javad at 034 as well for supplying the comparison dyno of Automatic vs. Manual.




Our customer's dyno overlaid with a stock dyno provided by 034. Thanks 10mpg





034 provided stock Automatic vs. stock Manual.





It is quite clear that the tube size, length and collector design worked exactly as we designed them. This car had cats as well and without cats there would be more high rpm power available. The results match what we saw in our acceleration rate calculations. We saw the HUGEST gains from 2500 rpm to 5000 rpm with these headers and the dyno showed the same.

Ultimately we are limited by the stock intake manifold at this point (at the least) and possibly the heads. We are working on some intake manifold solutions now and will hopefully have some options by the end of summer.

Bottom line since HP doesn't exist and it is just a mathematical calculation of torque and RPM, HP only shows how much torque you make in the upper revs with disregard to the torque down low. A long and consistent torque curve is always better than a peak HP number. It is kind of like how a honda makes 200hp with only 130 ft lbs of torque, all their torque is up high. If you catch them in the wrong gear, GAME OVER for them. With a broad torque curve and a more usable range you can dominate in any gear and get out of the hole quicker without having to rev the crap out of your motor beating on parts. Another advantage to a toruey motor is that you can shift it earlier and be just as fast or faster with less wear and abuse from high RPM.


Thanks again everyone for your support.

[beemercer]

Up late it seems Mr. Jay, burning the midnight oil working on that intake manifold?

Anyways the points you made are so valid, and often seemingly overlooked by many people here; it makes me wanna go dig up the PM's Justin and I exchanged regarding the future of the modification of this platform.

Regardless, it's great to see a company get so involved, especially when that company has extensive knowledge of N/A performance, since it seems that most of the other Audi tuner's do not have this background, and approach modification with the same mindset as they would for a F/I platform.

Thanks again Jay, and all the guys at JHM, and check your email there's one from me .

[dextrek]

034 provided stock Automatic vs. stock Manual.

Wow, that's pretty ridiculous how Tip makes so much less power.
Can someone elaborate on how this could be?
I wish JHM had some Tiptronic specific mods.

[ChronicTeutonic]

The tip (mechatronic) does not make less power, it outputs less power to the wheels due to the design of the transmission. All the engines are the same for manual and tip, the method of delivery is different.

In the manual there is a direct physical connection from the flywheel to the input shaft of the transmission. In the automatic there is hydraulic fluid that is used to spin the input shaft of the transmission, that fluid adsorbs more of the energy output from the flywheel.

This is reason why the new DSG, PDK, etc. manual automatic gear boxes are so good. They offer similar drivetrain loss as a manual, with faster shifting than any human can produce.

[Dodge2Dub]

My understanding is that the torque converter also limits the amount of power going to the wheels (less power is sent to the torque converter to maintain it's integrity). A good trnsmission control module software update should even the playing field by offering faster shifts and allowing for more power to be sent to the torque converter (safely).

[sway]

I'm still working on my header install. Had to leave to school for 3 weeks and had to leave the car on a lift with the whole subframe dropped
I plan on dynoing the S when I'm finished (6spd) for s&g, but I don't have a stock dyno for that same car, so keep that in mind. Not exactly sure but if 1 or 2 guys want to get together (with 6spd's) so we have a relative comparison for the same dyno feel free to pm me. Prefferebly on the east coast!

[trexturk]

anyone in/near chicago have this done, i really wanna hear how it sounds :)

[Ill 3.0]

AFAIK, Captain Insano would be the closest right now in Bloomington/Normal. Though Justincredible may finish his install soon.

[Captain Insano]

Yep, I'm in bloomington/normal. Not sure of anybody else close besides Justin.

[Justincredible]

AFAIK, Captain Insano would be the closest right now in Bloomington/Normal. Though Justincredible may finish his install soon.

I'm in the sway spot. I have almost everything rapped up I just need to get back home. I'm going to try and get it all back together this weekend if I can


As for the automatic questions

ChronicTeutonic hit the nail on the head. The trans needs to USE hp from the motor to drive the pump and then there are the internals that are very heavy and they sap power from the motor both when spinning and when driving the pump to shift gears.

Dodge2Dub

The Tq converter dose lock and unlock at odd times to change the power. That is why its always going to look odd for a automatic car on a dyno. Some times you can't get the TQ converter to full lock. From what I under stand the ECU controls the TQ calculation to the trans so if there are to be any changes they would have to be done there. The trans just receives the info and adjusts from there.

[itsdarrow]

Like others have said we don't play the dyno game. However our customer 10mpgS4 did take his car to the dyno. He saw awesome Torque gains, just like you would expect with longtube headers. We are excited to see the HP possibilities once we finalize an intake manifold solution to let the engine inhale the air, since the headers are helping it exhale very well already.



Since the data was dropped in our lap here are 2 images courtesy of 034 Motorsport's dyno. Our customer dynoed when we weren't present. Also it was done on a dyno day with a ton of people there. Special thanks to Javad at 034 as well for supplying the comparison dyno of Automatic vs. Manual.




Our customer's dyno overlaid with a stock dyno provided by 034. Thanks 10mpg





034 provided stock Automatic vs. stock Manual.





It is quite clear that the tube size, length and collector design worked exactly as we designed them. This car had cats as well and without cats there would be more high rpm power available. The results match what we saw in our acceleration rate calculations. We saw the HUGEST gains from 2500 rpm to 5000 rpm with these headers and the dyno showed the same.

Ultimately we are limited by the stock intake manifold at this point (at the least) and possibly the heads. We are working on some intake manifold solutions now and will hopefully have some options by the end of summer.

Bottom line since HP doesn't exist and it is just a mathematical calculation of torque and RPM, HP only shows how much torque you make in the upper revs with disregard to the torque down low. A long and consistent torque curve is always better than a peak HP number. It is kind of like how a honda makes 200hp with only 130 ft lbs of torque, all their torque is up high. If you catch them in the wrong gear, GAME OVER for them. With a broad torque curve and a more usable range you can dominate in any gear and get out of the hole quicker without having to rev the crap out of your motor beating on parts. Another advantage to a toruey motor is that you can shift it earlier and be just as fast or faster with less wear and abuse from high RPM.


Thanks again everyone for your support.

THIS is what ive been waiting for. Tose are AWESOME results and with CATS. Great job jhm,you really have done more for the 4.2 platform in the last 5 months than everyone else in the last 5 years

[Dr.quattro]

They've certainly shown they can drop 1/4 mile times and improve power. But don't turn your back on the last 5 years of prior development.

Great job jhm,you really have done more for the 4.2 platform in the last 5 months than everyone else in the last 5 years

[Dr.quattro]

Jay, good for you! Didn't 10MPG actually have:

headers/200 CEL Cat/FI 8" resonated catback/manifold spacer/crank pulley/JHM software/snub mount/K&N filter

and not just the headers/tune/exhaust?

So, the total gain would have been from all the things installed the day he dyno'd, no? Or did he only do the pulls with the headers/tune/exhaust before installing the 200 cell cat/manifold spacer/crank pulley/snub mount/k&n filter? I guess I am curious as to the direct gain from just the headers/tune (since not all of us have JHM crank pulley/manifold spacer/200 cell cat/FI exhaust/k&n/snub). Would the headers be attributable to say, more than 90% of the gain?

[Justincredible]

THIS is what ive been waiting for. Tose are AWESOME results and with CATS. Great job jhm,you really have done more for the 4.2 platform in the last 5 months than everyone else in the last 5 years

It might be time to think about thinking about the 4.2 now....these kind of results are a great start for us. It is a shame it just took 5 years for this performance boom to start. I think we have lots more coming tho. It looks like it will be an exciting time for us.

[itsdarrow]

It might be time to think about thinking about the 4.2 now....these kind of results are a great start for us. It is a shame it just took 5 years for this performance boom to start. I think we have lots more coming tho. It looks like it will be an exciting time for us.

yea now you guys actually have some bite to follow up with that lovely bark. Are there any high quality sound clips of a setup with these headers??

[dumptheclutch]

yea now you guys actually have some bite to follow up with that lovely bark. Are there any high quality sound clips of a setup with these headers??

Yeah it would be sweet to hear the set-up with catless DPs

[Justincredible]

I should have another sound clip to add with my car. to this soon but here is a small clip

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/J...oit_643331.htm

enjoy,

I know I have several times

[Boris]

it looks like its really moving with those headers. I wish they were around when I had my b6 s4...I remember wasting alot of time trying to get a hold of some south african joint that was making some, but it was way too costly.

Do all that, and lighten up the B6, would be a pretty fun car again.

[Dr.quattro]

That sound is pretty sweet out of the Avant; what's the total mod work done to it?

Saw the hood popped on the red S4 and the B5, where's the engine bay shot of the Avant? It sounds great!

I should have another sound clip to add with my car. to this soon but here is a small clip

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/J...oit_643331.htm

enjoy,

I know I have several times

[Justincredible]

That sound is pretty sweet out of the Avant; what's the total mod work done to it?

Saw the hood popped on the red S4 and the B5, where's the engine bay shot of the Avant? It sounds great!

Please refrain from posting in response to my posts and asking me ANY questions. If there are factual mistakes on my part then that's fine but I have no interest in you or any of your questions or comments.

If you don't know what a stock Avant engine bay looks like then I'm sure you can fine one if you search long enough. I would ask the owner of the car to post pic's but you have offended him as well.

[Silver B6 S4]

Not this again...



Lets not let this thread get locked...

[Dr.quattro]

Dude! I'm sorry! Relax! this is the new and improved DQ.

I am not calling you or the owner out! I seriously am interested in what mods he has! It sounds sick! The video shows the exhaust components, but, is there anything else to make it sound like that (intake, chip, etc.)?

Please refrain from posting in response to my posts and asking me ANY questions. If there are factual mistakes on my part then that's fine but I have no interest in you or any of your questions or comments.

If you don't know what a stock Avant engine bay looks like then I'm sure you can fine one if you search long enough. I would ask the owner of the car to post pic's but you have offended him as well.

[bsrpilot44]

Dude! I'm sorry! Relax! this is the new and improved DQ.

I am not calling you or the owner out! I seriously am interested in what mods he has! It sounds sick! The video shows the exhaust components, but, is there anything else to make it sound like that (intake, chip, etc.)?

aweeeeeee *group hug* ;-p

[Justincredible]

I have had enough.

With all due respect. First I don't have to RELAX me and several others have been offended long enough, Also how many sorrys are were supposed to accept when nothing changes

Please refrain from posting in response to my posts and asking me ANY questions. If there are factual mistakes on my part then that's fine but I have no interest in you or any of your questions or comments.

If you don't know what a stock Avant engine bay looks like then I'm sure you can fine one if you search long enough. I would ask the owner of the car to post pic's but you have offended him as well.

[Matador]

Um, anyway...

I'd love to see how this and the PES supercharger would go together. I've always loved V8s and I'm a big old school muscle car fan before anything else. This just sounds awesome. I'm thinking Milltek resonated exhaust, these headers, and the PES charger with a nice CF power bump... I just might trade out my R.

[cabracco85]

Um, anyway...

I'd love to see how this and the PES supercharger would go together. I've always loved V8s and I'm a big old school muscle car fan before anything else. This just sounds awesome. I'm thinking Milltek resonated exhaust, these headers, and the PES charger with a nice CF power bump... I just might trade out my R.

Yes i would have to agree, these headers will really help the s/c cars out. I cant wait to see someone with both.

[jfunkey]

I'd love to see how this and the PES supercharger would go together. I've always loved V8s and I'm a big old school muscle car fan before anything else. This just sounds awesome. I'm thinking Milltek resonated exhaust, these headers, and the PES charger with a nice CF power bump... I just might trade out my R.

From what Ive seen the milltek is the smallest dia there is and you might want to look into the same style with just a bigger dia. From what i understand it goes back to 2.2 this is a no no for power

[drew]

yeap, you'd definitely want a 2.5 inch exhaust with a blower/headers

[Matador]

Yeah I was talking with my friend last night and he said kind of the same thing. He mentioned the Fast Intentions exhaust? I'll have to check out some videos of it today.

[Devitan]

Some guy came over to Stamford where I get all my work done with the Stage II PES and JHM Headers. Thing put out 451 at the wheels on a dynojet. BEAST.

[B6guy42]

Stg2 451 AWHP ? Dang. I can't to get Stg1 on here. I have 6 more days! YAY. THEN I will think about doing headers. Until I get the boost I dont think its worth it.

[Bpitz15]

Stg2 451 AWHP ? Dang. I can't to get Stg1 on here. I have 6 more days! YAY. THEN I will think about doing headers. Until I get the boost I dont think its worth it.

expect a new thread about that car pretty damn soon.

Teaser?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDjPNJsJ9gE

[Devitan]

Is that guy on AZ? The Yellow Imola S4 with the Stage II blower?

[Bpitz15]

Is that guy on AZ? The Yellow Imola S4 with the Stage II blower?

yup he's keeping everything on the Hush until he has all of the numbers that people will ask for. He's getting in some track time sometime this week, dyno numbers, etc...
no teaser threads from this guy. All the information we're gonna want is going to be in one thread.

[Devitan]

Nice. I blew his spot then. My bad. Still I can't wait to see everything. What's his user name?

[Bpitz15]

pm'd

[jdmnomore]

omg omg omg omg