ANNOUNCEMENT.>>> The car is getting serious engine modifications...

[Jet Jockey]

First today I had to put the MTM injectors on the machine to figure out their flow rate to see in they were sufficient for the new engine package... They are not, we need a minimum of 550cc and the MTMs just flowed 400cc.

Second I stopped at a truck weighing station just to see where the car's weight is at after all the work we did to it. I'm glad to report that the car weighs less now than it did before the roll cage went in. I don't know how accurate the scale was but I will get it weighed properly once the diet is complete. For now it weighed in at 2970 lbs.

Now back to my announcement...

Well I decided to pull the trigger!

As you know I decided to go for a 3076R with the Tial S/S housing, a TiAL external wastegate and a TiAL BOV. Also I am changing my FMIC and now going to a Setrab core. This means new end tanks need to be made and a complete revamp of the intercooler plumbing to fit the new turbo in its new location. Piping will go from 2 inches at the turbo's outlet and increase to 2 1/4 inches into the I/C. From the I/C's outlet it will be 2 3/4 inches and increase to 3 inches just prior to the TB.

Also since I'm going with the SM4 standalone and will be switching to drive by cable we decided to switch to a VR6 TB because it is bigger than the DBW B6 TB. This leaves me room for further expansion in the future (AEB head).

Once the new tubular exhaust manifold, downpipe, wastegate piping the I/C piping and new FMIC are built/test fitted to the car they will be removed. Why you say?

Because we are pulling the motor out! At first I was going to get an engine refresh (although I was changing the rods) but now I decided to go for it!

Yes I'm going for the 2.0l conversion. So the engine will be bored out and a new AEG 2.0l crankshaft is going in to stroke it. Supertech Inconel exhaust valves are going in too. We have decided on Scat forged rods (hope everyone is happy with this choice). We are also going to use coated bearings.

Now the choice of pistons is interesting and I'm sure some of you are going to be surprised by it. I don't want arguments about it I have made my choice for good reasons. Please read the technical note on the pros and cons of these pistons at the end of this post.

So we decided on CP forged pistons but instead of the 4032 alloy built pistons we went for the 2618 alloy built pistons because of their superior tensile strength and fatigue endurance over the 4032 alloy pistons.

Now before the motor is assembled with all the new parts, it will be crated and shipped to a race engine builder/tuner in Virginia where it is going to be taken completely apart. All components will be cleaned in special “washing machines”. All parts old and new are going to be inspected. The block receives deck, bore/hone/line hone with billet deck plate. New crank will be inspected, mic'd, balanced, polished. They will quality check the new rods and pistons. The cylinder head is inspected for valve guide/parts wear and receives performance valve job (Inconel), surfaced as needed, valvetrain setup to spec. Everything is blueprint/clearanced. Then final clean and assemble timed, longblock.

To get the power down to the wheels I'm going to have to upgrade the clutch components. Well for this I went with our friends at DTH. We decided on the multi disk single mass LWFW from Clutch Masters, the FX600. However the "regular FX600 from Clutch Masters comes with an aluminium billet flywheel and again I decided to go with Mike's recommendation and use the DTH specially commissioned steel billet flywheel version of the FX600, thanks Mike.

Finally and this one is the icing on the cake… The shop I’m dealing with has an engine dyno. So my new 2.0l will be broken in, tested and finely tuned on their engine dyno. No more guessing as to how much power at the crank my motor will produce we are going to know for sure now. Later on when the motor is back in the car I will get some chassis dyno numbers, (Dynapak, Mustang and MAHA) and that should give us a pretty good look at drivetrain loss on three types of chassis dyno.

There you go folks that the bulk of it. Work may start next week on the exhaust manifold and FMIC. I’ll be busy posting updates for sure. I don’t think we will be shipping the motor until after the New Year.

ARTICLE ON 4032 vs 2618 ALLOYS (pros and cons)...

Forged pistons, barring unique manufacturer's
specifications, generally use two aluminium alloys,
which are 4032 and 2618. Typical recommended
applications are as follows: 4032 is a durable and
lighter material usually used in naturally aspirated
engines. 2618 Alloy is designed for the rigors of
blown, marine, and nitrous applications.

4032 pistons will have quieter cold start operations
due to their tighter piston to wall clearances
compared to 2618 pistons. This is due to the 15%
greater thermal expansion seen in the 2618 alloy. 15%
may seem l vs a lot, but do the math. Considering a
piston to bore clearance of 2/1000's of an inch, 15%
is only .0003". Once the pistons have reached their
operating temperature, the noise (piston slap)
differences should be nearly identical in volume
between the two alloys. 4032 pistons will have reduced
oil consumption and longer ring life compared to their
2618 cousins due to their better cold start
tolerances. While to many these physical comparisons
point towards 4032, you must understand that 2618
pistons, for their slight "defects", are clearly
superior in terms of tensile strength and fatigue
endurance to 4032. This is why most piston
manufacturers specify the 2618 alloy for use in highly modified turbocharged engines.

[20A4Audi1.8t01]

sick!!! subscribed!

[winston@podi.ca]

You selected premium components for every part of this build but then chose Scat connecting rods?!??

That just makes no sense to me.

Yes... some people say "they are just as good" as the Pauters I decided on but for the peace of mind the $300 was worth it.

To date I have never wondered if I'm going to lose a rod.

[Howard Hughes]

F'n nuts...... in a good way...

[Turbo1A4]

damn cant wait to see the pics along the way and a video when its done

[Jet Jockey]

You picked premium components for every part of this build but chose Scat rods?!??

That just makes no sense to me.

Yes... some people say they are just as good as the Pauters I decided on but for the peace of mind the $300 was worth it.

To date I have never wondered if I'm going to lose a rod.

Well I have talked to many people (maybe too many) and most said the Scats are good enough for motors that are making a lot more then what I'm going to make. Basically just not worth the price difference. Perhaps I should get some Carrillos and be done with it.

The Pauters are great and we are possibly looking at Crowers but Pauters are on the heavy side (rotational mass). The rods are the only thing I might change my mind on.

[winston@podi.ca]

Well I have talked to many people (maybe too many) and most said the Scats are good enough for motors that are making a lot more then what I'm going to make. Basically just not worth the price difference. Perhaps I should get some Carrillos and be done with it.

The Pauters are great and we are possibly looking at Crowers but Pauters are on the heavy side (rotational mass). The rods are the only thing I might change my mind on.

I am sure you have spoken to just about everyone as I did when I spec'd out all my components for my build.

Choosing between a great Supertech valve and an excellent Ferrera valve might not be as big a deal since they are both quality parts. But Scat compared to the rest I don't think comes close.

But every piece of your build is near identical to mine excpet the pistons. If you plan to build it once and build it right then scrap the Scats and get the Carrillo, Arrow, Crower or Pauter have the engine built and then smile at the piece of art they made for you.

And the rod being heavy? Please... I don't think the extra ounce on the rod is going to cost you on the top end HP output.

Blowing a cheap rod when that engine dyno pushes max power might make you

[317ssayzarc]

Nothings wrong with Scats, they have gone well over 600chp continuously...

Winston, what's wrong with Scats?

[winston@podi.ca]

It is just my opinion that if you are going to build an engine and choose to use quality premium parts then why choose an entry level rod?

Do Scats work? I am sure they do. If I never built my engine and just wanted to drop in some rods to take the punishment so I can push past 300awhp I'd probably buy a set of Scats and put them in.

But if you are going to go this far to build this engine and send to en engine dyno to get tweaked out then why select a Scat when there are better quality options out there, and I admit 'quality' is all a matter of opinion too.

[317ssayzarc]

It is just my opinion that if you are going to build an engine and choose to use quality premium parts then why choose an entry level rod?

Do Scats work? I am sure they do. If I never built my engine and just wanted to drop in some rods to take the punishment so I can push past 300awhp I'd probably buy a set of Scats and put them in.

But if you are going to go this far to build this engine and send to en engine dyno to get tweaked out then why select a Scat when there are better quality options out there, and I admit 'quality' is all a matter of opinion too.

I have Pauter's because I plan on going over 600whp... That's what justified getting edm'd Pauter's and Wiseco's with coated skirts and tool steel pins...

Now, by your way of thinking, everyone who builds a motor with money into it should put overkill rods in... I go by horsepower... Making more than 600chp? Go Pauter's... Not? Then go ahead and buy them if you feel like splurging, they will do you no better...

I guess you should have bought the Ti Pauter's then Winston




Now don't take any of this as an insult, just a comment

[winston@podi.ca]

I'm a big fan of overkill!!

[317ssayzarc]

I'm a big fan of overkill!!

Yea me too... But it's not logical

I built an 8k motor (I did nearly all the labor myself) for a T25 3071 lol... At least it's getting put to good use by a nice 35R now!

[winston@podi.ca]

Yea me too... But it's not logical

Yeah... like trying to make a 4 cylinder Audi fast is logical.

[317ssayzarc]

Yeah... like trying to make a 4 cylinder Audi fast is logical.

It is imo... Go read the S4 forums for my arguement on that

[mike-2ptzero]

Yea me too... But it's not logical

I built an 8k motor (I did nearly all the labor myself) for a T25 3071 lol... At least it's getting put to good use by a nice 35R now!

Yes but remember Mike is building a track car which means it will see long periods of high stress being put on thoses rods. Plus he is most likely going to be doing high speeds on the road course, that isn't exactly the place you want a motor locking up and spitting oil all over the wheels.


Like I told mike when he called, if it was me I would just choose to spend $300-$400 for more that "piece of mind". Which is why I went with Pauter rods 6 years ago.


Same exact rods that went into your dads B6 2 liter build for a 3076r.

[A4natomical]

this is not what i wanted to read about scats, but im not looking for anything above 530chp

[OneBadAudi]

Subscribed...Do Work Son....

[Silence]

I say you do the carillos, that way I can go with a bigger turbo when I buy the car from you. :) Now if only you would paint it Denim blue like your old car...

[Jet Jockey]

Yes but remember Mike is building a track car which means it will see long periods of high stress being put on thoses rods. Plus he is most likely going to be doing high speeds on the road course, that isn't exactly the place you want a motor locking up and spitting oil all over the wheels.


Like I told mike when he called, if it was me I would just choose to spend $300-$400 for more that "piece of mind". Which is why I went with Pauter rods 6 years ago.


Same exact rods that went into your dads B6 2 liter build for a 3076r.

Thanks Mike for the input and yes "peace of mind" does make a difference.

The Scats are the only "iffy" point in the built and I may go with something better.

I almost forgot, actual I did forget... Our friend Mike here through DTH will be selling me an upgrade for my clutch and flywheel (single mass). I'm going to get from them the Clutch Masters' FX600 dual disk clutch and LWFW but instead of the aluminium flywheel I'm getting the specially commissioned by DTH steel billet one.

BTW Mike nice to see your back. :-)

[Jet Jockey]

I say you do the carillos, that way I can go with a ****** turbo when I buy the car from you. :) Now if only you would paint it Denim blue like your old car...

Hi David, long time no see.

After all the WORK and MONEY I have put in to this car there is no way in Hell it's going to be for sale! :-)

[a4husslin]

Does this mean your freak of nature k04 is for sale, because Im in the market.

[Jet Jockey]

Does this mean your freak of nature k04 is for sale, because Im in the market.

It may be for sale. However I won't know until I remove it most likely this week when we start taking the car apart.

I want to have a look at it and make sure it's OK before I sale it. Now the bad news, I will not sell it on its own. I want someone to get the complete MTM Stage 3 kit as is because it works flawlessly.

This means someone will get the MTM K04, MTM injectors, the MTM downpipe/cat, the extended harness for the lambda sensor/probe and even the complete cat back exhaust. With this turbo you need the JJ TIP because it is bigger so that will be thrown in too.

Now the kicker is if your car's ECU matches mine you will get that too. It as the regular programming with an additional race program to use with VP 109 if you wish to use it. It also as left foot braking enable and the IMMO was taken out so no recoding at the dealers required.

Before anyone jumps the gun and say "I can't afford that", believe me I'll sale it as a package that no one can refuse.

[sambrody44]

Subscribed.

[Don Supreme]

550c is not nearly enough injectors --

Has ANYONE ever broken or bent a Scat? - probably not.

[Jet Jockey]

550c is not nearly enough injectors --

Has ANYONE ever broken or bent a Scat? - probably not.

Says who?

My tuner seems to know is stuff and says 550cc is good enough but in any case I bought some 750cc just to keep headroom. That way the injectors will be far from working near their max duty cycles and it gives me room for further upgrades in the future.

Peace of mind is a factor when it comes to the rods and again if I upgrade power later on I won't have to worry.

[Silence]

Hi David, long time no see.

After all the WORK and MONEY I have put in to this car there is no way in Hell it's going to be for sale! :-)

Sure... when that days comes. Remember my post. ;)

[mike-2ptzero]

550c is not nearly enough injectors --

Has ANYONE ever broken or bent a Scat? - probably not.

Not enough for what? Remember this isn't exactly a "stock" B6 you are talking about.

[dirtybrd]

I run Scats and a broken rod is never been in my mine. I'd be worried more about burning a piston from something being a little off one day and me now noticing. But then again, I haven't driven my car in a month.

[sean1.8t]

Not enough for what? Remember this isn't exactly a "stock" B6 you are talking about.

neither was David's either. and he hit 107 IDC on his 2.0l 3076r motor with 630's.

i assume you say 'stock' as in the stock fuel system. well that has not proven to be the main problem yet. and,

550's will be enough for a high boosting 3076r? really???

come on man

[Don Supreme]

Says who?

My tuner seems to know is stuff and says 550cc is good enough but in any case I bought some 750cc just to keep headroom. That way the injectors will be far from working near their max duty cycles and it gives me room for further upgrades in the future.

Peace of mind is a factor when it comes to the rods and again if I upgrade power later on I won't have to worry.

Put it this way - You bought yourself a 3076, if you plan to go anywhere near the maximum capability of that turbo then 550 would be a complete joke....

You should be fine with 750s, but I would even go bigger -- ESPECIALLY, since you are running a standalone.

[Don Supreme]

Not enough for what? Remember this isn't exactly a "stock" B6 you are talking about.

I don't understand... Do you think I was being sarcastic?

[sean1.8t]

440's are maxed on a 28rs. im running 550's.

that should tell you something

[A4 TSCHUSS]

550cc injectors on a 2 liter with 3076 ha. Interesting......

O just an fyi, this is what 630cc injectors get you at 25psi due to running over 100% duty cycle with the B6 fuel system with an upgraded 034 motorsport "040" fuel pump feeding them.



There is also detonation in between all the exhaust valves on every cylinder due to the car leaning out from maxing the injectors.

[Jet Jockey]

550's will be enough for a high boosting 3076r? really???

What's high boosting to you? How do you know what boost we intend to run?

How many psi is your fuel pump running to the rail? How many GPH or LPH is it capable of moving to the rail on a -06 line?

Are you still running the stock ECU with the stock pump with its built in regulator?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

On Winston's car the 040 pump puts fuel pressure around 64psi at the rail with the stock feed line and there was a drop of 6psi in the upper rpms. This info is from a 1.9 liter with 3076 and small port head with stock cams. 25psi on his car while running race gas was 94% duty cycle. On my car (2.0 with aeb head, schrick 252/260 cams, 3076, 630cc injectors with 040 pump) 25psi got me that head shown above with the log saying between 94-107% duty cycle during the run where the head was destroyed when it leaned out while running 93 octane and meth injection spraying straight water.

[jon102034050]

This is going to be badass.

[mike-2ptzero]

I don't understand... Do you think I was being sarcastic?

Do you know exactly what is being used on the car for a fuel system? Because it seems your advise is based on a stock B6 system.

On Winston's car the 040 pump puts fuel pressure around 64psi at the rail with the stock feed line and there was a drop of 6psi in the upper rpms. This info is from a 1.9 liter with 3076 and small port head with stock cams. 25psi on his car while running race gas was 94% duty cycle. On my car (2.0 with aeb head, schrick 252/260 cams, 3076, 630cc injectors with 040 pump) 25psi got me that head shown above with the log saying between 94-107% duty cycle during the run where the head was destroyed when it leaned out while running 93 octane and meth injection spraying straight water.

Odd seeing that not once did you or Winston ever post up logs showing your cars going lean, you are saying the calculations showed that you were over 100% duty cycle with numbers well under 20ms but yet I have seen A4's that had logs showing well into the 30 readings and still were not running lean. Last time I checked a car isn't running lean till the AFR readings say its running lean and lean isn't the only thing that causes detonation.

[Quattroownsyou]

2970lbs is mental . This car is going to be scary BEAST. Subscribed.

[Issam@INA]

It is just my opinion that if you are going to build an engine and choose to use quality premium parts then why choose an entry level rod?

SCAT an entry level connecting rod? Never heard that one before....
You want to waste money and buy Pauters go right ahead but Pauters are only needed for a 1000+hp build.Javad has run SCAT's to 800+awhp.
The most powerful 1.8T drag car in North America runs SCAT 144/20mm rods and it making 600+WHP.That is more than anyone on this board is making.

Has ANYONE ever broken or bent a Scat? - probably not.

Not 1 reported case of a 144/20mm rod bending or breaking.People do not understand what causes connecting rod destruction so they automatically go for the most expensive rod on the market.

The Scats are the only "iffy" point in the built and I may go with something better.

The SCATs are staying....do not let posts like the above influence your build Micheal.You have been given good advice ,take it and lets move forward

[Jet Jockey]

SCAT an entry level connecting rod? Never heard that one before....
You want to waste money and buy Pauters go right ahead but Pauters are only needed for a 1000+hp build.Javad has run SCAT's to 800+awhp.
The most powerful 1.8T drag car in North America runs SCAT 144/20mm rods and it making 600+WHP.That is more than anyone on this board is making.

Not 1 reported case of a 144/20mm rod bending or breaking.People do not understand what causes connecting rod destruction so they automatically go for the most expensive rod on the market.

The SCATs are staying....do not let posts like the above influence your build Micheal.You have been given good advice ,take it and lets move forward

Ho, ho, I think Issam is slightly pissed off! Please now is the time. :-)

I knew the Scat rods were going to bring up some arguments... We will see where this goes.

Anyone else wants to jump in on the rod issue? :-)

Now onto the fuelling issue. LOL.