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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings ddark13's Avatar
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    2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

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    been searching for info on this but cant find anything....

    I'm driving a B7 A4 2.0T and I'm thinking of trading it in for a VW Passat CC also w/ the 2.0T engine. However, I've noticed that the A4 has the "TFSI" version of the engine and the CC has the "TSI" engine. The torque peaks 100 RPM sooner of the TSI version + APR states that both engines are different...

    Is the CC engine a version of the new 2.0T in the B8 A4? How can they be different engines yet have exactly the same power ratings... is VW/AG lying? Whats up w/ this?
    2012 Audi A5 2.0T / Brilliant Black on Brown / Premium Plus / Navigation
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    CC engine is a new motor. The power peaks sooner but fades sooner as well. Personally I prefer the TFSI (assuming both are chipped)
    2007 A4QM

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings ABanT's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    The VW version of the 2.0 doesn't have the valvelift technology as with the Audi version.
    That is why it doesn't have the 258tq. It should be the same engine as the 08 GTI. Still same power output as the older version because of the lack of valvelift.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings matttl16's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq
    07 b7 a4 2.0t stage 3

  5. #5
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    Quote Originally Posted by matttl16 View Post
    we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq
    253/305 at the WHEELS? I think you mean at the flywheel right?
    - Daily Driver: 2010 S5 Prestige

    - Project: 2003 A4 Avant 1.8TQM: Comp Turbo 5152, PSI concepts manifold (open dump), IE rods, Built 8.5k rpm AEB head, Meth, Apikol Intake manifold, Precision FMIC, CM FX850 clutch, RS4 interior, B5S4 Front brakes, 034 rear sway, EV14 725cc injectors, BB turboback exhaust, Oettinger complete body kit, S4 door blades, and more...

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings supamannn99's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    Quote Originally Posted by matttl16 View Post
    we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq
    post dyno results

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings Geoffafa's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    Quote Originally Posted by matttl16 View Post
    we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq
    i call bs... 08 gti still have the fsi motor in them not the tsi... stage one apr and an evo intake will put u at like 225-230 wheel (realistically)

    im making those horsepower numbers NOW with full stage two and water/meth (slighty more torque @ 325)

    so sorry dude i call BS or apoorly calibrated dyno
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings RedS-line's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    those numbers look more in line with what APR claims AT THE CRANK for the GTI
    And it starts all over again

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Three Rings Nico's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    The new TSI engine is a complete redesign of the 2.0T engine as we know it.

    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3889971

    253whp is definitely possible as some of the 2008 gti did come with the new engine and some didn't.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings Nico's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    Quote Originally Posted by ddark13 View Post
    Is the CC engine a version of the new 2.0T in the B8 A4? How can they be different engines yet have exactly the same power ratings... is VW/AG lying? Whats up w/ this?
    Yes the CC has the same engine at the B8. They are not lying about it. Read the long thread I posted above.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings 80sGuy's Avatar
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    Oct 09 2007
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    Trade in an Audi for a Volkswagen? This is the first I ever heard of.

    2008 A4 2.0T | Dolphin Gray Metallic/Dk Gray | multitronic | Bluetooth | Dk Wood | Convenience. | Premium. | Sprt Susp. | Bare-bone 100% factory stock!

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings 4Rings3Liters's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    Quote Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post
    Trade in an Audi for a Volkswagen? This is the first I ever heard of.
    Blasphemy!

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings matttl16's Avatar
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    Re: 2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

    sorry i ment to post 09 not 08... it has the tsi motor and its a thunder bunny... not that that makes a diff other than the exterior... i dont have a print out of the dyno but i will try to get one form him to show you guys
    07 b7 a4 2.0t stage 3

  14. #14
    Registered Member One Ring
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    maann , i drove my new audi a4 2.0T quattro 6m 2006 model, and i drove my cousin's 2008 GTI with an exhausht system upgrade, in the gti i could drive in the 6th gear up to a gill with a speed of 40mph, on the audi u';d have to put at least 4th gear, and i wouldnt be as fast as the gti,, on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine ,, so they should both go up on 6th gear up a hill even if the a4 is heavier with the extra torque, but i just cant see where the extra torque is going!!! And the gti feels way faster than the audi,, ilike mu a4 more, but it sucks to get beaten by a gti, you know wht i mean? can you help me or tell me smth about this??

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings jimrobbington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antho18 View Post
    maann , i drove my new audi a4 2.0T quattro 6m 2006 model, and i drove my cousin's 2008 GTI with an exhausht system upgrade, in the gti i could drive in the 6th gear up to a gill with a speed of 40mph, on the audi u';d have to put at least 4th gear, and i wouldnt be as fast as the gti,, on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine ,, so they should both go up on 6th gear up a hill even if the a4 is heavier with the extra torque, but i just cant see where the extra torque is going!!! And the gti feels way faster than the audi,, ilike mu a4 more, but it sucks to get beaten by a gti, you know wht i mean? can you help me or tell me smth about this??
    Now my brain hurts. Stage 2 I can haul ass straight up mountains in sixth doing 80, and it sounds amazing.
    05.5 A4 2.0T 6spd, JHM stage 1, stage 1 HPFPupgrade, Vast Stage 3 clutch, VMR test pipe, custom non-res 2.5" turbo back Techtonics exhaust, Borla mufflers, wastegate adjustment, TR6 FMIC, custom CAI, 034 catch can, snub, and MM, evap canister delete, JHM SS, KW V1's, 19" V710's, ABT drilled/slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Podi boost gauge, 640 Mod, 20% tint, baby seat.

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings bblume's Avatar
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    it's not a surprise that a modded gti would beat a modded a4....just the weight alone signifies a huge difference. Probably why they feel faster too. But give it some snow or slush or overall style, the 4rings come out on top every time!!!
    92 Gti 2.0 16V ABD/Recaro/Racelandy/Techtonics/BBS RZs
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  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings Tanner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antho18 View Post
    on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine
    It's the other way around actually. It's been mentioned that if you compare the *same* 2.0T in a longitudinally mounted car vs one transversely mounted, the one transversely mounted is able to breath better and thus it develops a bit more power.
    Mike

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antho18 View Post
    maann , i drove my new audi a4 2.0T quattro 6m 2006 model, and i drove my cousin's 2008 GTI with an exhausht system upgrade, in the gti i could drive in the 6th gear up to a gill with a speed of 40mph, on the audi u';d have to put at least 4th gear, and i wouldnt be as fast as the gti,, on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine ,, so they should both go up on 6th gear up a hill even if the a4 is heavier with the extra torque, but i just cant see where the extra torque is going!!! And the gti feels way faster than the audi,, ilike mu a4 more, but it sucks to get beaten by a gti, you know wht i mean? can you help me or tell me smth about this??
    It's the gearing. Trust me. I have PLENTY of experience with a Stage II+ B7 A4 Quattro (mine obviously), a Stage II+ Mk5 GTI, a Stage I MK6 GTI, and a Stage II MK6 GTI. All of them running APR software. On the way to Wuste this year my former roommate, who had the Stage II+ MK5, couldn't pull me at over 120 MPH in the desert. He flat runs out of 6th gear and I still have plenty of RPM's left. Also, I've taken his car 150+ MPH and seen where it sits RPM wise. We've all concluded if we raced our cars under almost any conditions, and the A4 had lower gearing, it would all turn out differently. Another thing I'll tell you after having them hand my ass to me in a straight line numerous times and fuck with me about it is watching them studder when I kicked all their asses hauling through U.S. 95 through the mountains outside Laughlin, NV on the way to Vegas because they got owned by Quattro. Same thing happened in our TX Hill Country runs we used to do. I'll still take my traction (straight line or curved) over their torque steer and useless 1st gears. Just my preference.
    Papachristou: i just said "yeah well you are still driving a neon, and she still wants to ride in my car"

    2012 BMW 135i M Sport

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings fusionx's Avatar
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    TSI > FSI

    TSI engines get WAY more gains out of software than the FSI engines too. My friend had a stage I TSI GTI and it was barely behind my stage II FSI A3.....
    07 A3 2.0T S-line - REVO stage 2 - GIAC DSG Flash - AWE downpipe - Custom staggered quad-tip exhaust - H & R springs - H & R sway bar - Neuspeed CAI - fog housing LEDs - VMR boost gauge - JL 12'' Sub w/ Precision Power Amp

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  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings B72.0T's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matttl16 View Post
    we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq
    Slap yourself.
    B8 S4
    Stage I

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings jimrobbington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B72.0T View Post
    Slap yourself.
    With a prickly pear cactus! Hahaha.
    05.5 A4 2.0T 6spd, JHM stage 1, stage 1 HPFPupgrade, Vast Stage 3 clutch, VMR test pipe, custom non-res 2.5" turbo back Techtonics exhaust, Borla mufflers, wastegate adjustment, TR6 FMIC, custom CAI, 034 catch can, snub, and MM, evap canister delete, JHM SS, KW V1's, 19" V710's, ABT drilled/slotted rotors, Akebono pads, Podi boost gauge, 640 Mod, 20% tint, baby seat.

  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by fusionx View Post
    TSI > FSI

    TSI engines get WAY more gains out of software than the FSI engines too. My friend had a stage I TSI GTI and it was barely behind my stage II FSI A3.....
    According to APR's figures, they get more torque gains, but not more HP.
    Papachristou: i just said "yeah well you are still driving a neon, and she still wants to ride in my car"

    2012 BMW 135i M Sport

  23. #23
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings
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    Transverse vs Longitudinal

    Transverse benefits from better intake and exhaust routing, thus having a slight advantage.

    FWD vs AWD

    As far as acceleration is concerned once moving, the FWD wins because there is less drivetrain loss and more power gets to the ground.

    A4 gearing vs. GTi/A3/TT gearing

    GTi wins because they are closer ratio and therefore provides better acceleration.

    TSI vs FSI

    TSI is a completely redesigned engine with improvement of failure prone parts and designs along with slightly lower compression and a slightly smaller turbo. TSI makes more torque than FSI due to slightly smaller turbo and spools just a tad sooner as well. FSI should make more power up top but with just a slight extra nudge to the TSI turbo, FSI HP was matched.

    However, the TSI has a lot more available fuel and mods that require fueling upgrades on the FSI don't on the TSI making it much cheaper to get more power thanks to the extra fuel capacity VW was nice enough provide.

    A4 TSI vs. transverse TSI

    A4 TSI has VL. VL gives opportunity for more torque downlow. If you've been around, its like a 1.8T with VVT vs a 1.8T without VVT

    A4 TSI vs TSI GTi/A3/TT

    After a stage 1 ECU Upgrade the power is pretty much equal.

    The A4 still has the challenges of longitudinal orientation, heavy vehicle weight, taller gears and AWD drivetrain loss so is therefore appreciably slower than the transverse 2.0 TSI cars.



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