2.0T TSI vs. 2.0T TFSI ?????

**ddark13** · 10-24-2008 08:40 PM

been searching for info on this but cant find anything....

I'm driving a B7 A4 2.0T and I'm thinking of trading it in for a VW Passat CC also w/ the 2.0T engine. However, I've noticed that the A4 has the "TFSI" version of the engine and the CC has the "TSI" engine. The torque peaks 100 RPM sooner of the TSI version + APR states that both engines are different...

Is the CC engine a version of the new 2.0T in the B8 A4? How can they be different engines yet have exactly the same power ratings... is VW/AG lying? Whats up w/ this?

**rnp614** · 10-24-2008 08:56 PM

CC engine is a new motor. The power peaks sooner but fades sooner as well. Personally I prefer the TFSI (assuming both are chipped)

**ABanT** · 10-24-2008 09:10 PM

The VW version of the 2.0 doesn't have the valvelift technology as with the Audi version.
That is why it doesn't have the 258tq. It should be the same engine as the 08 GTI. Still same power output as the older version because of the lack of valvelift.

**matttl16** · 10-25-2008 12:03 PM

we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq

**UFfitz56** · 10-25-2008 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by matttl16

we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq

253/305 at the WHEELS? I think you mean at the flywheel right?

**supamannn99** · 10-25-2008 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by matttl16

we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq

post dyno results

**Geoffafa** · 10-25-2008 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by matttl16

we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq

i call bs... 08 gti still have the fsi motor in them not the tsi... stage one apr and an evo intake will put u at like 225-230 wheel (realistically)

im making those horsepower numbers NOW with full stage two and water/meth (slighty more torque @ 325)

so sorry dude i call BS or apoorly calibrated dyno

**RedS-line** · 10-25-2008 03:29 PM

those numbers look more in line with what APR claims AT THE CRANK for the GTI

**Nico** · 10-25-2008 04:19 PM

The new TSI engine is a complete redesign of the 2.0T engine as we know it.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3889971

253whp is definitely possible as some of the 2008 gti did come with the new engine and some didn't.

**Nico** · 10-25-2008 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by ddark13

Is the CC engine a version of the new 2.0T in the B8 A4? How can they be different engines yet have exactly the same power ratings... is VW/AG lying? Whats up w/ this?

Yes the CC has the same engine at the B8. They are not lying about it. Read the long thread I posted above.

**80sGuy** · 10-25-2008 10:02 PM

Trade in an Audi for a Volkswagen? This is the first I ever heard of.

**4Rings3Liters** · 10-25-2008 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by 80sGuy

Trade in an Audi for a Volkswagen? This is the first I ever heard of.

Blasphemy!

**matttl16** · 10-26-2008 10:05 PM

sorry i ment to post 09 not 08... it has the tsi motor and its a thunder bunny... not that that makes a diff other than the exterior... i dont have a print out of the dyno but i will try to get one form him to show you guys

**Antho18** · 12-16-2010 05:41 AM

maann , i drove my new audi a4 2.0T quattro 6m 2006 model, and i drove my cousin's 2008 GTI with an exhausht system upgrade, in the gti i could drive in the 6th gear up to a gill with a speed of 40mph, on the audi u';d have to put at least 4th gear, and i wouldnt be as fast as the gti,, on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine ,, so they should both go up on 6th gear up a hill even if the a4 is heavier with the extra torque, but i just cant see where the extra torque is going!!! And the gti feels way faster than the audi,, ilike mu a4 more, but it sucks to get beaten by a gti, you know wht i mean? can you help me or tell me smth about this??

**jimrobbington** · 12-16-2010 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Antho18

maann , i drove my new audi a4 2.0T quattro 6m 2006 model, and i drove my cousin's 2008 GTI with an exhausht system upgrade, in the gti i could drive in the 6th gear up to a gill with a speed of 40mph, on the audi u';d have to put at least 4th gear, and i wouldnt be as fast as the gti,, on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine ,, so they should both go up on 6th gear up a hill even if the a4 is heavier with the extra torque, but i just cant see where the extra torque is going!!! And the gti feels way faster than the audi,, ilike mu a4 more, but it sucks to get beaten by a gti, you know wht i mean? can you help me or tell me smth about this??

Now my brain hurts. Stage 2 I can haul ass straight up mountains in sixth doing 80, and it sounds amazing.

**bblume** · 12-16-2010 07:06 AM

it's not a surprise that a modded gti would beat a modded a4....just the weight alone signifies a huge difference. Probably why they feel faster too. But give it some snow or slush or overall style, the 4rings come out on top every time!!!

**Tanner** · 12-16-2010 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Antho18

on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine

It's the other way around actually. It's been mentioned that if you compare the *same* 2.0T in a longitudinally mounted car vs one transversely mounted, the one transversely mounted is able to breath better and thus it develops a bit more power.

**davis449** · 12-16-2010 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Antho18

maann , i drove my new audi a4 2.0T quattro 6m 2006 model, and i drove my cousin's 2008 GTI with an exhausht system upgrade, in the gti i could drive in the 6th gear up to a gill with a speed of 40mph, on the audi u';d have to put at least 4th gear, and i wouldnt be as fast as the gti,, on the internet you guys say that the longitudinal eengine of the 2.0T has 40tq + than the gti's engine ,, so they should both go up on 6th gear up a hill even if the a4 is heavier with the extra torque, but i just cant see where the extra torque is going!!! And the gti feels way faster than the audi,, ilike mu a4 more, but it sucks to get beaten by a gti, you know wht i mean? can you help me or tell me smth about this??

It's the gearing. Trust me. I have PLENTY of experience with a Stage II+ B7 A4 Quattro (mine obviously), a Stage II+ Mk5 GTI, a Stage I MK6 GTI, and a Stage II MK6 GTI. All of them running APR software. On the way to Wuste this year my former roommate, who had the Stage II+ MK5, couldn't pull me at over 120 MPH in the desert. He flat runs out of 6th gear and I still have plenty of RPM's left. Also, I've taken his car 150+ MPH and seen where it sits RPM wise. We've all concluded if we raced our cars under almost any conditions, and the A4 had lower gearing, it would all turn out differently. Another thing I'll tell you after having them hand my ass to me in a straight line numerous times and fuck with me about it is watching them studder when I kicked all their asses hauling through U.S. 95 through the mountains outside Laughlin, NV on the way to Vegas because they got owned by Quattro. Same thing happened in our TX Hill Country runs we used to do. I'll still take my traction (straight line or curved) over their torque steer and useless 1st gears. Just my preference.

**fusionx** · 12-16-2010 09:45 AM

TSI > FSI

TSI engines get WAY more gains out of software than the FSI engines too. My friend had a stage I TSI GTI and it was barely behind my stage II FSI A3.....

**B72.0T** · 12-16-2010 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by matttl16

we just chiped and dynoed my friends 08 gti with apr and put the evo intake on it and it was putting down 253whp and 305wtq

Slap yourself.

**jimrobbington** · 12-16-2010 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by B72.0T

Slap yourself.

With a prickly pear cactus! Hahaha.

**davis449** · 12-16-2010 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by fusionx

TSI > FSI

TSI engines get WAY more gains out of software than the FSI engines too. My friend had a stage I TSI GTI and it was barely behind my stage II FSI A3.....

According to APR's figures, they get more torque gains, but not more HP.

**Keith@APR** · 12-16-2010 12:30 PM

Transverse vs Longitudinal

Transverse benefits from better intake and exhaust routing, thus having a slight advantage.

FWD vs AWD

As far as acceleration is concerned once moving, the FWD wins because there is less drivetrain loss and more power gets to the ground.

A4 gearing vs. GTi/A3/TT gearing

GTi wins because they are closer ratio and therefore provides better acceleration.

TSI vs FSI

TSI is a completely redesigned engine with improvement of failure prone parts and designs along with slightly lower compression and a slightly smaller turbo. TSI makes more torque than FSI due to slightly smaller turbo and spools just a tad sooner as well. FSI should make more power up top but with just a slight extra nudge to the TSI turbo, FSI HP was matched.

However, the TSI has a lot more available fuel and mods that require fueling upgrades on the FSI don't on the TSI making it much cheaper to get more power thanks to the extra fuel capacity VW was nice enough provide.

A4 TSI vs. transverse TSI

A4 TSI has VL. VL gives opportunity for more torque downlow. If you've been around, its like a 1.8T with VVT vs a 1.8T without VVT

A4 TSI vs TSI GTi/A3/TT

After a stage 1 ECU Upgrade the power is pretty much equal.

The A4 still has the challenges of longitudinal orientation, heavy vehicle weight, taller gears and AWD drivetrain loss so is therefore appreciably slower than the transverse 2.0 TSI cars.