Ok , I guess I'll start one ...

[California Jay]

^that pretty much sums it up...

[1fstavant]

how much for the flapper mani after its all said and done... allready planning on going the same route 40series

[AudiA4_20T]

how much for the flapper mani after its all said and done... allready planning on going the same route 40series

indeed, Im curious as well, although I doubt he has any info and it hasnt even ran yet lol

[California Jay]

I'll be getting it all together as a complete assembly first for all to see it in compete form. Then I'll answer by pm for pricing. This will be within the next two days... I'll also post the model of the IM.

[Toyotatech]

no think of it as putting a 25 series turbine with a 40r coldside.

it would spool like crazy, but that's about all it would do. it would choke just like a k04 does up top.

this is the reason for the flapper

I would hope that's what it would do. I asked because I think of it like a air compressor, if you take a craftsman 13 gallon air compressor at 125 psi it doesn't have enough volume to take off lug nuts but if you take a 60 gallon tank it will have no problems taking off lugs. Like I said I hope it works, it will revolutionize the turbo market.

[California Jay]

Just as a side note... the engine I saw this work on first was a older BMW race engine while I was overseas - 1.4ltr and 750hp on a t72. Redline to ~7800-8k. Unfortunately i never got to see much else, like inside the housing... but I could tell it was twin scroll. Thats pretty much what got me started on this.

[California Jay]

Quick peek at the IM rendering .... still working out plennum dimensions, base, entry, and costs of production for how I have it broken down. There are more pieces here than really shown. Should be done pretty soon

[317ssayzarc]

making your own runners jay?

[California Jay]

Yes it is a complete assembly.. top to bottom...

[Don Supreme]

My god, so the throttle body is going vertically into the plenum and not horizontally like the stock setup?

****- Looks like those injectors will have a direct spray into the intake head ports.

[dougyfresh]

Quick peek at the IM rendering .... still working out plennum dimensions, base, entry, and costs of production for how I have it broken down. There are more pieces here than really shown. Should be done pretty soon

Are you planning on doing any CFD (or water bench tests) to better understand the flow distribution?

I'm just curious as to how people like yourself come up with an intake manifold that is optimized.

We have finally gotten around to running CFD models of the gas turbine cooling technologies I have been helping develop. As a result we have found areas of significant separation and recirculation zones that were not apparent through hand calcs or simplified assumptions. Now, I know an IM is not necessarily a heat exchanger (about as simplified as I can describe the stuff I'm working on since its company private) but I would think you would want complete atomization of the air and fuel as well as no recirculation and separation zones. Then again, the locations you have defined for the fuel injectors drive towards an optimized air/fuel mixing pattern.

Just a theoretical thought of mine...

[California Jay]

Yes, so far I've only run the plenum closed to see how much it would flex and show its weak spots structurally at 40 psi... the top of the air box seems to be the weakest point (the top as it sits in the car, face opposite and parallel of the opening). I'm quite certain i'll be changing the plennum style to a more tear drop shape.

I do still plan to run CFD though... I wouldn't put the time into it like this to wing it. This design though, w/o testing, does naturally have its benefits over the stock style of IM...from an entry standpoint.

There will also be a set of injectors in the traditional spot...

[dougyfresh]

Yes, so far I've only run the plenum closed to see how much it would flex and show its weak spots structurally at 40 psi... the top of the air box seems to be the weakest point (the top as it sits in the car, face opposite and parallel of the opening). I'm quite certain i'll be changing the plennum style to a more tear drop shape.

I do still plan to run CFD though... I wouldn't put the time into it like this to wing it. This design though, w/o testing, does naturally have its benefits over the stock style of IM...from an entry standpoint.

There will also be a set of injectors in the traditional spot...

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the info. I was not sure what detailed analyses go into these kinds of designs from shops such as yourself.

[California Jay]

We both know theres big $$ in CFD and 3d modeling in general... I think eventually, if I play my cards right, I'll slowly take my career that way. Right now its a small part of the fun here.

[Don Supreme]

There will also be a set of injectors in the traditional spot...

2 sets of injectors?

[dougyfresh]

We both know theres big $$ in CFD and 3d modeling in general... I think eventually, if I play my cards right, I'll slowly take my career that way. Right now its a small part of the fun here.

Most definitely. I'm sure you've got a million things going on at once and trying to learn computer analysis just adds to the complexity of the job.


Good to know my experience is useful in other avenues if I chose to leave the aerospace industry. I haven't even begun to remotely think about that though.

[California Jay]

For sure... I'm sure you've got high $ figures in the aerospace industry, for CFD and redering etc etc... As a comparison for you, when Koenigsegg was in development of the rear exhaust system (headers back) for the CCX and "Edition" car - I was floored when they paid 200k EUR for just the model/3D rendering. It included connections to the headers, muffler with interior horns and the trademark single tip outlet.

I got to see it built first hand, by hand, pretty cool.

[onemoremile]

That IM is different than the one you sent me a few months ago. Change in plans? I liked the old one better.

There is great money in the industry. I took a contract gig for a few months and just got a $10 an hour retroactive raise today. We are doing models and simulators for a 2013 Chrysler and 2016 BMW. Taking cad and turning it into real life is pretty damn fun.

[AudiA4_20T]

Hey Jay, tell me more about the AEM EMS.... does it have preloaded drivers for all of our sensors? or will you have to change some, and if so which ones?

[California Jay]

A lot of the AEM ecu's allow you to switch sensors up from a list in a "Wizard". So, for most of the kit I'll be running a Honda/GM sensors. I'll show how to config for the 60-1 when I start installing.. not that difficult. I'll probably use a base map I've got from a K20 set up I just finished...

[California Jay]

That IM is different than the one you sent me a few months ago. Change in plans? I liked the old one better.

There is great money in the industry. I took a contract gig for a few months and just got a $10 an hour retroactive raise today. We are doing models and simulators for a 2013 Chrysler and 2016 BMW. Taking cad and turning it into real life is pretty damn fun.

Yeah still playing with that one... I may turn back to it

[AudiA4_20T]

A lot of the AEM ecu's allow you to switch sensors up from a list in a "Wizard". So, for most of the kit I'll be running a Honda/GM sensors. I'll show how to config for the 60-1 when I start installing.. not that difficult. I'll probably use a base map I've got from a K20 set up I just finished...

interesting, how much are all those sensors going to run you? Could get expensive no?

[Poopie]

I should have went to school for mechanical engineering. Electrical friggin sucks. Once I'm done i'm going back for aerospace or automotive. Or hit up a gym and strip for dollar bills.

[California Jay]

^lololol

interesting, how much are all those sensors going to run you? Could get expensive no?

Not really... I've still got 8-9 dummy engine combinations here that are still quite complete for sensors. I keep them on engine stands for mock up, and I use them in and out of a half cut EG civic to make turbo kits now and then. Same goes for VW/Audi engines but not so many. I've been doing this for about almost 10yrs now pretty heavy, so its easy to collect the important items. Plus working at JRP helps. I think the most expensive sensor would be the GM MAP, its only $55 at most.

you can see the half cut civ in the corner.

[blkb6a4]

any updates?

[California Jay]

a little behind... I got some new equipment for the shop today... Mill, new benches, 250 boxes of metric and imp grade 8-12 hex socket fasteners etc etc... busy moving it in...

update soon!

[California Jay]

ok more back on track with some swing arm action....

After doing a run on the first model of the flapper pin ...



I found it was way too thin in diameter to hold up in the enviroments that we would put it through. it's too bad bc it stream lined the dividing wall quite nicely. But when breaking it down, the pin is no thicker than some of my welding rod.

So, I made a new model as one piece... a lot stronger and simpler too as there is no need for any E-clips. Its a press in bushing at either end.



Machining done... nice fittment too
















I'll be updating soon with the flapper installed. I'm still shaping it

[317ssayzarc]

Son of a bitch Mr. Thorton... Your really inspiring with this build, I don't know how to express it other than to say its incredible what you are doing...

[California Jay]

Shaping the flapper... in places I took a bit too much off and had to re add it to get the shape with in the tolerance i wanted. shooting for about a mm at most in the casting.











Where it started b4 a bit of shaping/welding

[Don Supreme]

very very nice.

[AudiA4_20T]

im so excited

[sean1.8t]

that is a thing of beauty!

[317ssayzarc]

Ill just post damn... Again, I dont know what to say...

[sean1.8t]

if this works, im going to have one hell of a built up 1.8l in the next year or so. revvin to 10,000 rpms will be a thing of beauty

[California Jay]

Thanks guys...

All finished... now to get the thing mounted and running with the internal gate/actuator

[onemoremile]

That is so cool.



If you've got decent enough measurements to create accurate cad models you can print a perfect paper template of that end curvature. One of the assembly features is an interference sketch. You can select surfaces or bodies and you should do each. That gives you the interference curves on the leading and trailing edge of the blade when it is in it's nominal closed position.

Copy and paste these profiles into a new sketch or into a drawing document and print out 1:1 scale. Cut the blade to the larger/longer shape. Then lay the shorter on it and color everything remaining with a Sharpie, both sides and the end of the blade too. Then hit the sander and shave the color off while still leaving a stripe down the middle of the edge. That edge can be radiused for longevity.

It should take about 10-15 minutes to go from cad to paper templates. The whole thing should be knocked out in well under an hour. Finished tolerances should be about +/- .010".

[zerb]

what are the plans for the head thats going on this beast here? im assuming solid lifters would be on the must have list at this point? or is the entire POINT of this process to get this small child sized turbo to spool up early enough so that it rips from 4k til 9k?

[California Jay]

The head is a lightly ported AEB with Eurospec cams and full Ferrera valve train. Redline only to 8k, hopefully I won't have the need for any more with this mod.. The goal on this particular setup (Audi TT) is to just gain spool with peak of approx 475awhp from the previous 420.

The A4 of mine in the thread will obviously have bigger hp goals with the GT4094. This mod is just the tip of the iceburg through that build. Although the new Garrett GT3588 that is coming out has kinda peaked my interest just b/c of its new t4 housing, and new compressor housing.

[California Jay]

If you've got decent enough measurements to create accurate cad models you can print a perfect paper template of that end curvature. One of the assembly features is an interference sketch. You can select surfaces or bodies and you should do each. That gives you the interference curves on the leading and trailing edge of the blade when it is in it's nominal closed position.

Copy and paste these profiles into a new sketch or into a drawing document and print out 1:1 scale. Cut the blade to the larger/longer shape. Then lay the shorter on it and color everything remaining with a Sharpie, both sides and the end of the blade too. Then hit the sander and shave the color off while still leaving a stripe down the middle of the edge. That edge can be radiused for longevity.

It should take about 10-15 minutes to go from cad to paper templates. The whole thing should be knocked out in well under an hour. Finished tolerances should be about +/- .010".

Yeah I figured I could have done that.. I think with the amount of time I would have spent clay filling/profiling/measuring the interior contour of the housing may have been the same time I spent doing the sanding on the flaper you see here..

I'm sure there will be a time again where I can carry this out in another part of the build.

[AudiA4_20T]

Jay I know you work fast, any new progress?