DIY - B6 1.8t - Vacuum line and Check Valve removal/simplification

[OrangeDUB]

as old guy stated...venting straight to the atmosphere is bad for our motors. when venting directly to the atmosphere, think of it this way...your engine once shut off is expelling hot air and fumes. once your engine cools down the air will compress slightly and suck outside air through your vent tube back into the engine. since outside air has more moisture than any air that has been in recirculation, you will essentially be adding water in small doses to your oil. water in small doses to your oil will cause sludge and froth. most people think oh my catch can caught all this nasty stuff. in actuality the catch can the first stop to and from the engine and outside air. all that nasty stuff you see in your catch can is water from the outside air being mixed with your engine oil.

i ended up not removing much from my car when i worked on it recently. i had spent maybe 500 dollars in hoses and a catch can with plans to rebuild my entire system. i was planning to have "catched oil" reintroduce itself into the crankcase as an entirely closed system. to be upfront about things, there really is not a good place to drain back the oil aside from adding a secondary crankcase breather. eventually when i go big turbo i will be using the oil drain back tee'ed for my catch can drain back.

another thing most of you don't realize is, adding negative pressure to your crank case is a good thing. negative pressure means less work your pistons and crankshaft have to output to spin. negative pressure promotes positive ring sealing. with a OEM type configuration you are getting close to a neutral environment. with venting to the atmosphere, you honestly need to vent quite more than one port to the atmosphere. at that point eventually you'll get to a situation where more oil is being lost than it is worth doing. my old race car would sign around 9,500rpm so much at the end of a track day, i would be 1 quart short of oil. eventually you learn, recirculating/filtering/whatever is definitely a good thing for your engine in the long run. for your pocket book as well.

That's some awesome knowledge my friend. After reading this I am going to go from atmospheric to catch can -> vacuum. My pancake was bad- should I worry about replacing that, considering I'll be using a catch can or no?

[caspar]

I saw this on the net -
Should it work for blocking?

[daihashi]

I saw this on the net -
Should it work for blocking?

looks like my IE block off; pretty cool to see an Audi genuine part, does the other side have a spot for an O-ring? If so then just make sure it's flat/true, use a machinist straight edge.

[J_L]

Today I went full retard and decided to take action. The car only got worse the last couple of weeks and was a nighmare to drive.
the symphtoms was:
-horrible cold start, missfired like a mofo
-missfires when fully warmed
-loud horror sound from the engine at idle/vacuum, like a cat slowly dying in the engine bay, screaming.
-high fuel consumption
-loss of oil, although no oil leak
-temp guage working when it felt like
-insane vacuum from oil dipstick tube/oil filler cap

I had no codes stored in the ecu, so I narrowed it down to a bad pcv system and vac leaks. So after reading this thread
next, I ordered some resistors and a block of plate from IE, along with billet block and valve cover adapter+ AN fittings to route it to the ground for now.
So today was D-day and I took it all out, n112,n249,combi valve,PVC system,the vacum thing under the engine,SAI and ALL the old vacuum hoses.
I hooked one new line to the bov and one to the brake booster+ new fresh lines to the n75 valve. I took the IM off and replaced the leaking Injector cups,
changed the coolant sensor (super easy with the combi valve out of the way, did it in like 30 sec), put in a new O2 sensor, new IM gasket
and cleaned the maf sensor, TB and IT sensor with brake cleaner. it all took me about 6 hr from start to end.



at the end of the day, this was the result



tried to fire her up, but it wouldnt start, and I was like "dear god, what have have i done" lol, but after about 10 sec, she fired up just fine.

the result:
-no vacuum storm in oil filler cap/dipstick tube
-no missfire at cold start
-no missfire when warmed up
-no cat screaming sound from the engine
-no cell
-no codes
-runs super smooth at idle
-quicker boost response
-temp gauge working for the first time in 1 year

I scanned my ecu with the new Motoza software I got in the mail yesterday, and no codes.

And last, the usual whoring:


and dont mind my bad english writing skills;)

[diagnosticator]

The crankcase vent dump to ground will make a mess. I recommend installing a MANN ProVent crankcase ventilation catch can/oil mist coalescer to limit oil lost from the crankcase, and stop the emission of regulated hydrocarbons and CO from the crankcase. The ProVent returns trapped oil to the crankcase, and routes the crankcase blow by gasses to the intake between the MAF meter and the turbo compressor intake. Since the vented gasses are cleaned of all oil aerosols/mist, the intake will stay clean, unlike the stock setup that does not trap the oil and water in the crankcase gasses. Using the ProVent, eliminates most of the negative effects of removing all of the crankcase ventilation equipment that you described.

[J_L]

The crankcase vent dump to ground will make a mess. I recommend installing a MANN ProVent crankcase ventilation catch can/oil mist coalescer to limit oil lost from the crankcase, and stop the emission of regulated hydrocarbons and CO from the crankcase. The ProVent returns trapped oil to the crankcase, and routes the crankcase blow by gasses to the intake between the MAF meter and the turbo compressor intake. Since the vented gasses are cleaned of all oil aerosols/mist, the intake will stay clean, unlike the stock setup that does not trap the oil and water in the crankcase gasses. Using the ProVent, eliminates most of the negative effects of removing all of the crankcase ventilation equipment that you described.

thanks for the info, the dump to ground was moore of a temp solution for today. The Man Provent is deff a nice buildt pcv breather :)

[tuesdayninja]

Today, thanks to a broken breather tube, I'll be removing the PCV valve under the IM and replacing it with just the elbow to the crank and heater hose to the 3 way at the VC. Can I vent the crank and VC back to the TIP, similar to the stock setup? I'll keep the PRV on and dump the hardline back to the TIP. Or must I install a catchcan between the PRV and TIP? Or would I be better off venting to atmosphere under the car?

[03AudiA41.8T]

can we get a parts list of what all we need to complete this from start to finish. would love to get rid of everything possible and prob. fix many vacuum leaks in the process

[nofearhawk]

Parts list? Some rubber caps, clamps, zip ties and a 5mm hex tool? EGR/SAI blockoff plate.

And some resistors if you don't have the ability to code it out.

[n7plus1]

some info on that part listed above:
http://www.passatworld.com/forums/76...5-front-3.html

[J_L]

can we get a parts list of what all we need to complete this from start to finish. would love to get rid of everything possible and prob. fix many vacuum leaks in the process

Here you go bro:)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-for-your-1.8T

[03AudiA41.8T]

thanks everyone

[CrazyCal]

Have a couple quick questions....

I plan on using the catch can method from the crankcase breather to the TIP. I know I need a check valve in between to prevent pressure travelling back through the breather and into the crankcase. I currently have the 034 Breather Kit. I'm planning on plugging the PCV outlet on the 034 crank breather hose. That means the billet PCV won't be used.

My two questions:

Am I wrong in assuming I could just use the Billet PCV (instead of a standard check valve) on the Catch Can side of Valve Cover "T" Hose as pictured below?

Any issue with the placement along the line (before or after the catch can) or does it even make a difference?

[old guy]

The PCV valve serves no purpose if it isn't hooked to a vacuum source. Its primary function is to provide block vacuum and prevent boost. The line you show it installed in provides minimal vacuum at best and no boost. No need for any type of check valve in that line.

[CrazyCal]

The PCV valve serves no purpose if it isn't hooked to a vacuum source. Its primary function is to provide block vacuum and prevent boost. The line you show it installed in provides minimal vacuum at best and no boost. No need for any type of check valve in that line.

I was going by the information provided by greg@podi in post #357.

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[old guy]

I was going by the information provided by greg@podi in post #357.

And exactly where is this boost signal going to come from? Look at your diagram and think it through.

[CrazyCal]

You're right. There's no way for any sort of boost to travel through the TIP. If anything, it would be relieved by the gaping hole (ie the filter) anyway.
There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.
What would be the best vacuum source to use instead of just dumping it down by the tranny and using no vacuum source? It seems as if the block breather would benefit from a catch can and vacuum.


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[old guy]

Well if you read my sig it pretty much sums it up. The OEM set up works as long as it is properly maintained. Mine works fine after 9 years and 160k+ miles. Needless to say I have replaced a few components over the years. A boost/vacuum gauge and bi-annual pressure test will help you keep everything working properly. As long as your motor is healthy the amount of oil vapor blow-by recycling through the intake really isn't going to hurt anything. The 1.8T has manifold mounted injectors and consequently the intake wash-down keeps everything in the head clean. It's a different story for the direct inject motors and whenever I go to one of those I will definitely be looking at modifying the OEM system.

[Charles.waite]

Well if you read my sig it pretty much sums it up. The OEM set up works as long as it is properly maintained. Mine works fine after 9 years and 160k+ miles. Needless to say I have replaced a few components over the years. A boost/vacuum gauge and bi-annual pressure test will help you keep everything working properly. As long as your motor is healthy the amount of oil vapor blow-by recycling through the intake really isn't going to hurt anything. The 1.8T has manifold mounted injectors and consequently the intake wash-down keeps everything in the head clean. It's a different story for the direct inject motors and whenever I go to one of those I will definitely be looking at modifying the OEM system.

The FSI pcv system is a bit of a cluster that's for sure. Mine working just fine though with the newest revision stuff, but it's so failure prone its retarded.

[OrangeDUB]

Lol we need a new version of the 1.8t SAI/Evap/PCV thread written a little more clearly. No offense to the OP- it would be just nice to have a more cut and dry DIY that takes into account all the awesome info that has been brought forth in the discussion in this thread.

[CrazyCal]

Yeah, the thread does have a lot of constantly repeated information and when you get tired of reading the same thing over and over, you end up missing some single post in the middle of it that has pertinent information.

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[B72011]

If I did this down the road here in California, would they fail me at the emissions test? I assume they're in the engine bay snooping around?

Solutions would be either reinstall the stock system or find a "down low" smog guy you can payoff with a hundo.
Correct?

[n7plus1]

yeah, i wouldnt do this if you lived in cali or dont understand whats going on.

[Staz]

100$ always does the trick

[CrazyCal]

Slowly piecing together all the parts I need. Also waiting on my SAI Blockoff Plate. Can't wait to get this thing done.

I'm going to create an updated DIY with a complete parts list when I do the install.

If I did this down the road here in California, would they fail me at the emissions test? I assume they're in the engine bay snooping around?

Solutions would be either reinstall the stock system or find a "down low" smog guy you can payoff with a hundo.
Correct?

^ This is exactly what sucks about this thread. This question has been hashed out at least 20 times already.

[walky_talky20]

Lol we need a new version of the 1.8t SAI/Evap/PCV thread written a little more clearly. No offense to the OP- it would be just nice to have a more cut and dry DIY that takes into account all the awesome info that has been brought forth in the discussion in this thread.

I did a decently detailed write up for the B5 1.8T (if I do say so myself):
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Simplification

I approach the systems individually so people can pick and choose the deletes they want to do. This is pretty much directly applicable to the 2002 and early 2003 B6. The "mid" and "late" B6 1.8T vacuum/PCV systems do differ slightly, though.

[old guy]

Damn Keith!! That's some nice work and outstanding documentation!!

[walky_talky20]

Damn Keith!! That's some nice work and outstanding documentation!!

4 (Four!) exclamation points from old guy? Well, it looks like life is all downhill from here.

[Matt Devo]

I did a decently detailed write up for the B5 1.8T (if I do say so myself):
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Simplification

I approach the systems individually so people can pick and choose the deletes they want to do. This is pretty much directly applicable to the 2002 and early 2003 B6. The "mid" and "late" B6 1.8T vacuum/PCV systems do differ slightly, though.

looks good, but I'm concerned that there's no longer a check valve between the manifold and brake booster. The booster isn't designed to see 15+ psi of boost, you should probably consider using a check valve instead of the brass coupler

[EErie B6]

looks good, but I'm concerned that there's no longer a check valve between the manifold and brake booster. The booster isn't designed to see 15+ psi of boost, you should probably consider using a check valve instead of the brass coupler

I know (on the B6 at least) there is one built into the Brake Booster.

Walky and/or Old Guy...

Looking at this pic here:



Any reason why 1 check valve would not suffice at the green "T" ? so it would go Manifold > check valve > T fitting ?

[CrazyCal]

I did a decently detailed write up for the B5 1.8T (if I do say so myself):
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Simplification

I approach the systems individually so people can pick and choose the deletes they want to do. This is pretty much directly applicable to the 2002 and early 2003 B6. The "mid" and "late" B6 1.8T vacuum/PCV systems do differ slightly, though.

Thank you for linking to this. Lots of good, visual, information there! Great job!

[old guy]

Any reason why 1 check valve would not suffice at the green "T" ? so it would go Manifold > check valve > T fitting ?

I would recommend maintaining both check valves. The two lines see different conditions and could cause problems by essentially tying them together. For example: The LDP uses a vacuum source to operate the pump which in turn pressurizes the evap system. When the N80 bleeds down the pressure the line would be tied directly to the LDP line rather than separated by a check valve. I suspect that may cause you to pull some evap codes.

[EErie B6]

Thanks OG.

[walky_talky20]

looks good, but I'm concerned that there's no longer a check valve between the manifold and brake booster. The booster isn't designed to see 15+ psi of boost, you should probably consider using a check valve instead of the brass coupler

This is true, you definitely want a check valve in there. Here is the photo of the "real world" install I posted just below the diagram:



You'll notice the factory check valve is still present at the firewall connection. It is part of that hose, basically. The vacuum diagram doesn't really show that check valve, hence the confusion. Reference the light blue colored line:

[1Satchmo]

What a great write-up!
2004 A4 Cab B6 1.8T FWD
I am planning on giving this a whirl but not at his time - to many things going on.
I do have a question I would like to ask about how the vacuum system works and get some possible direction.

I had replaced valve cover gasket and made mistake of touching the breather tube - it disintegrated.
At that point, I believe, I started getting low oil light intermittently. I could drive 3 or 4 miles and it would flash a few times and quit - mile or 2 later it would flash again and stop. So, the last thing I did was the breather tube replace.

I read a blog that said if my engine was running and I couldn't remove my oil filler cap than there was a blockage.
I would presume that it would be on the oil filter side but not sure what to look for or what would be logical target.
Can yo help?
Thanks

[BARRY]

Have a couple quick questions....

I plan on using the catch can method from the crankcase breather to the TIP. I know I need a check valve in between to prevent pressure travelling back through the breather and into the crankcase. I currently have the 034 Breather Kit. I'm planning on plugging the PCV outlet on the 034 crank breather hose. That means the billet PCV won't be used.

My two questions:

Am I wrong in assuming I could just use the Billet PCV (instead of a standard check valve) on the Catch Can side of Valve Cover "T" Hose as pictured below?

Any issue with the placement along the line (before or after the catch can) or does it even make a difference?

my general comments to this without getting into the previously mentioned items...if you vent your catch can to your intake before your MAF you do not need a PCV valve. then again if you vent before your MAF lets hope your catch cant is not introducing ANY oil mist into the MAF which will cause it to fail. You do not want to introduce any unmetered air into your intake tract which is why we have a air suction valve.

the OEM configuration is one amazingly perfect design if you think about it. it does exactly what it should do, but in practicality it is unreliable in the long run. The entire system should have been constructed probably as a contained box of some sort with minimal plastic/rubber used. external rubber hoses exempt from that analysis. and that junction box should have been serviceable.

[TravisSavoie]

wow, i've done this myself when i went bt, but man... this must be one of the best DIY on the forums! thanks for doing this!

Can i pay someone near the Webster area to do this for me?
If someone can do this and happens to live in the Houston, Tx area lmk asap VIA email

TravisSavoie19@Yahoo.com

[Jeff99gsx]

I would like to keep all of my stock emmisions equipment on my 2002 a4, Is there any write ups on how to repair or replace the stock Crankcase vent system? I just bought the car and when i take the oil cap off there is pressure. What causes that? Bad suction pump? Clogged PCV?

The car smells like oil when im at a redlight and its driving me nuts. Any help will be greatly appreciated

[Charles.waite]

I would like to keep all of my stuff stock, Is there any write ups on how to repair or replace the stock Crankcase vent system? I just bought the car and when i take the oil cap off there is pressure. What causes that? Bad suction pump?

The car smells like oil when im at a redlight and its driving me nuts. Any help will be greatly appreciated

Look up "a4darkness's engine strengthening thread". Should have everything you need. And more...

[Jeff99gsx]

Thank you...found it now!