Time for another GTRS build thread!

[B6Lovin]

I know that a GTRS Eliminator is nothing new to the AZ community, but this is my first BT build, and in this thread I am going to document my progress as I go, trouble shoot any questions that I (or anyone else) may have, and hopefully create a semi-organized area to house most of the info that is going into my build.

That being said - After I am done I am going to create a total start to finish writeup which will include every stage of the process which i go through, a back-log of parts which i had in place before i started the build, prices, time to complete, difficulty, a list of parts and tools, where i sourced everything from, lots of pictures, instructions on install and how i fabbed up some pieces, etc etc etc.

To start off this thread, I was wondering if there was anything that is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to my build that I left off of the following list:

TIP (Custom 3")
Injectors (Greentops)
GTRS w/hardware (ATP)
Exhaust (Custom 2.5" Turbo-bak)
Intercooler (Custom)
Clutch (Southbend OFE SS)

I am also probably going to do a manifold - but I haven't heard whether or not it's really that much of a gain... if it is I'll do it - I figure if it breaks I can always get a new one for free from ATP and use my stocker in the mean time.

Another maybe is WMI - I plan to do it eventually, but for the initial build I think I'll hold of and save myself some money. It's only about 100 bucks, so it'll follow up shortly.

That's all for the first post - I'm going to try and keep it more organized by having a couple posts which i can edit as i go along

[B6Lovin]

Ok, Time to knock out the TIP


I'm doing a Custom 3" Tip as designed by Shawn - GTRS 3" adapter, "cobra" pipe, 90 degree tight radius pipe, metal pipes to hold em all together, and a spare coupler to hold it to my MAF

I have a question though - I'm going to have to tap my own vac fittings and return hoses etc... and I'm planning on removing my SAI and I already have a hole for the DV return... I haven't gotten into my engine bay just yet to see what all I'll need - but does anyone know what all is A) involved in removing the SAI, and what (if any) problems that may cause. and B) how many fittings that means i'll need on my TIP.

I know i need EVAP, and i think PCV? any more?

edit with a pic --
here's the parts i picked up off of shawn (huge thanks to him!) the rest should be in soon, as well as my FMIC stuff.

[winston@podi.ca]

You could always try one of these pipes we made

[B6Lovin]

i would if i had the money and if i hadnt already picked up some parts from shawn - the way i'm doing it, the whole TIP is only gonna cost me about 75 bucks... but i'll allow that shameless plug hahaha

anyone know what/how many fittings i'll need? (as in, what each one goes to)

[B6Lovin]

also - if any of the GTRS (or other BT setups) guys have any pointers as to install or problems you had along the way please let me know. I'm trying to compile the absolute largest database of BT info i can... i'm shooting for a "little or no surprises" build. (hahaha im not expecting it to happen though)

[winston@podi.ca]

Are you thinking of using the Bosch 440cc greentops?

I spoke to Scott at USRT and he told me to skip on them and use the Genesis 430cc units instead as they have a much better spray pattern.

[dougyfresh]

Or, you can buy my Delphi 440cc injectors.......


Brand new, never used.

[jcs4]

also - if any of the GTRS (or other BT setups) guys have any pointers as to install or problems you had along the way please let me know. I'm trying to compile the absolute largest database of BT info i can... i'm shooting for a "little or no surprises" build. (hahaha im not expecting it to happen though)

I had zero problems with my GTRS install...make sure you put the copper o-rings on the coolant feed/return lines and dont overtighten the oil feed line. I had to slighthly clock (rotate) my turbo to match my racetec fmic piping. Other than that it was easy.

[starfriend]

jcs4, i got a racetec IC myself, and i've heard that theres a outlet on the turbo to the N95 missing on the GTRS, so you have to make a bend for it on the IC, did you experience any of this or was it like 100% bolt on?

[A4ringedONE8T]

Glad you got the parts!! Greentops commonly have idle issues due to their spray pattern, I would highly suggest Genesis 430's

[jcs4]

jcs4, i got a racetec IC myself, and i've heard that theres a outlet on the turbo to the N95 missing on the GTRS, so you have to make a bend for it on the IC, did you experience any of this or was it like 100% bolt on?

No problems with the racetec mating to the stock ko3, ko4 or GTRS (I've had all three) The ractec i have is the newer versions that have a 2-piece turbo outlet to intercooler pipe (the old versions are 1 piece) and this makes it easy to match up to either turbo. The GTRS is missing nothing and bolt-ons just like the stock turbo (there is a nipple on the turbo outlet adapter on the GTRS for n75 valve connections).

[starfriend]

Thanks for the information jcs4, also:


i got the two piece aswell, but not installed it yet.. waiting to buy the ATP GTRS kit on ecodetuning for 2699$ (http://www.ecodetuning.com/shop/cart...t_detail&p=504)

Is this adapter something that comes with the turbo (if so, i figure its in this package), or did you buy it seperate?

[mtbrider]

I'd definitely go with the Genesis 430's. Also you are going to run the stock maf right?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

When using the ATP manifold you must put the rear bolt (out of the 3 that hold the turbo to the mani) into the manifold before you bolt the mani to the head. It is to far under the head once installed and cant be put in or taken out all the way.

Like mentioned above you will probably have to loosen the bolts (around 6 I think) that hold the housing of the turbo to the center section of the turbo and then spin "clock" the compressor housing (the outlet of the turbo) to the direction it needs to be to aim toward where your intercooler pipe connects.

Be careful with the bolts that hold the wastegate bracket to the housing because they are to short from atp and will strip the housing easily.

[B6Lovin]

Or, you can buy my Delphi 440cc injectors.......


Brand new, never used.

hey man - i'm sorting out what injectors i'm using right now. I PM'd you thinking i wouldn't hear back about another set, but then I did. We'll talk - expect a PM somtime soon.


and to everyone else - thanks for the heads up on the manifold/turbo "clocking".

i've heard the install is pretty straight forward and i'm hoping that it is.. hahaha.

[B6Lovin]

oh yeah - david

what tuning are you running? REVO?
and how much boost?

[dougyfresh]

I've never installed an 'Elim but I'm sure it is not too difficult if you have some mechanical aptitude. That is the beauty of the GTRS Eliminator. It uses the stock turbo location and everything has been designed to be realitively OEM-like. Then again, my system places everything in a new location and the install is not hard. Its just like working on anything within our engine compartment.

What boost are people pushing day in and day out on 93octane with this set-up? How about race fuel? Just curious relative to what I'm running.

[mtbrider]

On my old elim set-up on a day to day basis I was running 23-25psi B9 T7, I was on meth of course

[B6Lovin]

MTB - I'm running the stock MAF for now. How big are the gains from running it in a 3" housing? i have go up to 550cc injectors if i do that right?

I'm shooting for around 300 wheel HP (give or take 15 or 20) on this setup. Seems like it's reasonably doable. anything above 275 will make me very very happy. hahaha

the setup i want right now is nowhere near what my final setup will be... I'm just trying to get the ball rolling on this whole project period. it'll be a lot easier for me to go ahead and get the car running on a basic GTRS setup and then expand from there.

[mtbrider]

^^Ok, just making sure because if you change maf size injectors have to change as well

[jcs4]

Im running 20psi (Boost 6 Timing 5) on 93 octane on the GTRS (revo). I'm also using the Genesis 430's and they were indeed smoother than the greentops at idle.

[dougyfresh]

^^Ok, just making sure because if you change maf size injectors have to change as well

Exactly, in order to keep a/f in check...

[B6Lovin]

huge thanks to everyone - alot the info i've got so far is stuff i haven't found anywhere else (like the whole manifold/turbo deal)

what all is involved with draining and filling the coolant? that's one thing i never got to do on any of my other cars. i had a shop do the turbo on my eclipse (i was 16 and didn't wanna fuck with it hahaha) and i wouldn't dare touch something under the hood on my 944T... shit broke every time i did.

[starfriend]

thats pretty straight forward b6lovin, there's DIY on a4mods :D

but hey, what's this thing with upgrading the MAF to 3" i cant use the same injectors? whot?
I was planing on the turbo kit i pasted above, and a 3" MAF:)

Also, if you feel like im hijacking ur post, let me know so i can STFU ;)
hehe!

[B6Lovin]

no worries - this thread is for me and everyone else putting any BT system on their car (namely the GTRS though)

like i said in the OP - I'm trying to compile all of the wisdom, knowledge, and little tricks needed to make this as easy as possible - from there I'm going to put together a complete writeup that'll cover everything from TIP construction and SAI removal to tweaking the final setup and running meth injection.

[dougyfresh]

thats pretty straight forward b6lovin, there's DIY on a4mods :D

but hey, what's this thing with upgrading the MAF to 3" i cant use the same injectors? whot?
I was planing on the turbo kit i pasted above, and a 3" MAF:)

Also, if you feel like im hijacking ur post, let me know so i can STFU ;)
hehe!

Why would you want to go with a 3inch MAF when the software/system was designed for the stock MAF? What do you think you will gain by doing this?

Just some curiosity questions that I know I'd ask myself in trying to determine what I want in my vehicle.


(I have a 3inch MAF because my system was originally designed for use with one.)

[dougyfresh]

no worries - this thread is for me and everyone else putting any BT system on their car (namely the GTRS though)

like i said in the OP - I'm trying to compile all of the wisdom, knowledge, and little tricks needed to make this as easy as possible - from there I'm going to put together a complete writeup that'll cover everything from TIP construction and SAI removal to tweaking the final setup and running meth injection.

SAI removal is simple. You rip everything out because it is only used on start-up. What does it do? It injects more air in the catalytic converter for better environmentally friendly emissions at cold start-up.

The catch 22 is the ECU checks readiness codes. SAI is one such readiness code. Some tuners are capable of going in and permanently deleting the ECU check for SAI flow. That will result in an SAI readiness code of "OK". Here is a thread about it: http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176852. I know most tuners will only do it for you if you're running their software.

(My SAI is removed and the readiness codes are permanently cleared.)

[B6Lovin]

so far i've only heard of a couple doing this -- neither one being the tuner i was hoping to use (i don't want to name drop and get anyone in trouble lol)

[Redgoat]

You could always try one of these pipes we made

Will this actually fit on the GTRS Elim? I know the turbo sits forward a bit more, and doesnt seem like this would fit at all (due to the fact that theres no room in front of the turbo)

[tuned A4]

Are you thinking of using the Bosch 440cc greentops?

I spoke to Scott at USRT and he told me to skip on them and use the Genesis 430cc units instead as they have a much better spray pattern.

i have them. so far :)

[winston@podi.ca]

Well we took measurements off of a GTRS eliminator kit, had pictures from Shawn to show us clearance and this TIP should fit fine.

That said we actually haven't had a chance to test fit it into a GTRS setup as we don't have one here to use.

Anyone want to be a test subject?

[B6Lovin]

if you'd hook me up with a free one i'd gladly be the guinea pig hahaha (wishful thinking)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

I'm shooting for around 300 wheel HP (give or take 15 or 20) on this setup. Seems like it's reasonably doable. anything above 275 will make me very very happy. hahaha

300 is definitely doable with race gas or if you run meth injection while on pump gas with settings like 22psi and timing 8 or 9. As far as just running pump gas settings (93 octane) you will be running something like 21psi and timing 5 in any weather below 85. With this setting you are looking at around 260whp range some have made 252 while others have made 265-270whp. I have never done a dyno with pump gas though.

I have done one dyno with 100 octane and made 321whp 304tq at 25psi and timing 9, and did another dyno at another location with like 3 gallons of 93 and 2 gallons of Toluene (it is a paint thinner but has a very high octane of 114 if you didnt know). I used that since I couldn't get race gas in the area but it was close to 100 octane. On that dyno I had problems with boost and couldn't boost over an 18psi hold (quick peak to 20psi then hold at 18psi). Shawn (A4ringedone8t) was actually in my car watching the boost gauge. On this dyno I did 301whp and 300wtq. They were both mustang dynos.

[B6Lovin]

sweet jesus :)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

oh yeah - david

what tuning are you running? REVO?
and how much boost?

Yes Revo, don't run Mika it sucks. Right now I run 18-19psi and timing 7 on just 93 octane. Little lower timing when it gets hot. When I have methanol injection going then I run 21psi and timing 9. My meth hasn't been used for like 2 months though since I have a leak that I haven't fixed and the tank keeps going empty in a day. Then of course with 100 octane or higher it is timing 9 and full boost of 24-25psi.

[B6Lovin]

so you made 321awhp on 100 octane + meth on timing 9 and full boost?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

No meth. Just a full tank of Sunoco GT100 on Boost 9 Timing 9 set with the SPS 3 controller using the N75 valve to control the boost. Weather was about 70 deg. I later had a manual boost controller (the 2nd dyno) and had it in the car for a long time but am now again using the N75 since it has nice smooth linear power with boost controllable unlike a manual boost controller where it goes to about 10psi then from there it jumps to 20 or whatever with no control (kinda on/off feeling).

[B6Lovin]

ohhh gotcha. we'll see if i can top that number towards the begining of the summer.. my initial "numbers" runs are probably gonna come from a g-tec pro lol - so i'll drive a couple other cars with the same g-tec to get a good comparison for everyone. after that i'll try to make time to head to the dyno.

i know that every car handles every situation differently, but in your opinion is it safe to make any tweaks on the sps right off the bat? (base levels for stg 3 are boost 6 timing 2 right? i think i remember hearing that somewhere)

i don't have a laptop and can't log, and won't have the money to buy a sps... but i know that the guys flashing my car would take the time to go ahead and tweak my car while it's in the shop.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

You will have to make sure with the shop who flashes the car to what it is put at. Mine was sent to me on Boost 6, Timing 1 from Eurocode. You have or will have a front mount intercooler right? You should be able to run 21-22psi and timing 5 with no problems at this time of year without logging to be sure. Like I said earlier you can run timing 5 when weather is in the high 80s as long as you have a descent intercooler. Seeing that it is cold in NC right now (below 70) you could probably run 21psi and timing 7 and be ok on pump gas. To be safe if you arent gonna log though I would have the shop put the car at Boost 7 and Timing 5. The Boost setting with the SPS can vary a little with each turbo depending on how the wastegate actuator arm is set (how tight it is) so you really need a boost gauge to know for sure.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

O yeah and after installing the turbo and having everything connected you want to disconnect the coils (pull the plug off each coil) and turn the car over for say 15 seconds 2 or 3 times to be sure the turbo gets primed with oil before you actually fire the car up. You can also pull the fuse for the fuel pump but it isn't needed.