Anyone here running RS6 turbos?

[DAP]

FWIW, my rev limit is set at 7600 RPMs and the RS6 turbos still have plenty of steam at the top.

[lil' is 300]

Nice. I'm assuming you have stock heads? You need an ECUx post!

[DAP]

Nice. I'm assuming you have stock heads? You need an ECUx post!

Mostly stock heads... the valves are thermal coated (stock valves) and the valvesprings are stiffer aftermarket ones (CAT) to prevent valve float at higher RPMs.

I do plan on testing different cams and possibly 2.8 heads in the future.

The car is running great on just a preliminary tune. Once I have time to finalize the software, I'll post some logs.

[BlueturboS4]

Dave im so jealous. i want your turbos!!! if you see tony tell him to email me i called and emailed him about doing some work for me and i havent heard anything. thanks best of luck with the beast. Turbohp350@Yahoo.com

[joemomma]

GT2560r spool at 38-3900 and will make power to 8k+ the gt28rs or the 2871ss r the real large ones that spool in the mid fours not the 2560ss and the gt2554ss will spool even sooner then 3800.. Theres always a trade off with any setup you run its very hard to have the best of both worlds ie rs4/ko4 spools but have rs6 or gt, thats not realistic

Hey man i remember reading you were doing a GT setup? What are you plans??

[generationjdm]

im doing it as we speak just waiting on parts, the motors been out for almost 2 months my turbos r on back order... hopefully will have it in by nov before it snows...

[Tony@EPL]

No one really knows how much HP DAP's car is making... if it was actually making a real "500 whp" aka not EPL's dyno, I think the results would have been different.

I've seen you make a few comments about my dyno.....for reference.

The last stock s4 we had on it make 184-6 wheel horse power.
The last awe ots stage 3 car we've dynoed made 360-5.
The last 2 apr stage 3 cars we've dynoed made 340-360.

Every dyno reads different. Im failing to see where our dyno reads significantly higher if at all higher then any other mustang.

[lil' is 300]

I've seen you make a few comments about my dyno.....for reference.

The last stock s4 we had on it make 184-6 wheel horse power.
The last awe ots stage 3 car we've dynoed made 360-5.
The last 2 apr stage 3 cars we've dynoed made 340-360.

Every dyno reads different. Im failing to see where our dyno reads significantly higher if at all higher then any other mustang.

I wouldn't know how different it is in comparison to another Mustang, but it certainly reads much higher than any other dyno i've seen. Irrelevant, yes... but it misinforms people when they compare your higher numbers to other dynos...For instance, how many other people made nearly 500 wheel on RS4 K04's?

It wouldn't be an issue if people didn't always compare numbers from your dyno and are misled by how much power these turbos actually make. GIAC has made a max of 430 wheel on their dyno (dynojet?) but your mustang reads 70 wheel HP higher? It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was 10-20whp difference...but people who don't understand how different dyno's can read lower/higher will just think you guys are making a shit ton more power than other tuners.

[HighDesertAudi]

I know EPL dyno's S4's in 3rd while AWE dyno's in 4th.

I thought all Dyno pulls for 6spd S4's should be done in 4th because the gear ratio is closest to 1, giving the most acurate reading??


6spd gearing

1st 3.500:1
2nd 1.889:1
3rd 1.231:1
4th 0.967:1
5th 0.806:1
6th 0.684:1

[joemomma]

im doing it as we speak just waiting on parts, the motors been out for almost 2 months my turbos r on back order... hopefully will have it in by nov before it snows...

Nice what size turbos? What you doing for fueling and all that jazz?

[Tony@EPL]

I wouldn't know how different it is in comparison to another Mustang, but it certainly reads much higher than any other dyno i've seen. Irrelevant, yes... but it misinforms people when they compare your higher numbers to other dynos...For instance, how many other people made nearly 500 wheel on RS4 K04's?

It wouldn't be an issue if people didn't always compare numbers from your dyno and are misled by how much power these turbos actually make. GIAC has made a max of 430 wheel on their dyno (dynojet?) but your mustang reads 70 wheel HP higher? It wouldn't be such a big deal if it was 10-20whp difference...but people who don't understand how different dyno's can read lower/higher will just think you guys are making a shit ton more power than other tuners.

In general you are comparing aggressively tuned custom set ups with to OTS cars. Time and time again, we have cars dyno at other dynos and make virtually the same power, in more then a few cases MORE.

If I remember currently a stock s4 on AWE's dyno makes low 180's, on my dyno mid 180s. Your talking about 1-2 %, difference.....Come on.

As for dynojets, our cars have dyno'd on 2 dynojets locally here in CT....both have read higher.

[Tony@EPL]

I thought all Dyno pulls for 6spd S4's should be done in 4th because the gear ratio is closest to 1, giving the most acurate reading??


6spd gearing

1st 3.500:1
2nd 1.889:1
3rd 1.231:1
4th 0.967:1
5th 0.806:1
6th 0.684:1

Even with the best fan set ups, trying to replicate the amount of air on the front of the car that you will see in 4th while on the dyno is impossible. Dyno'ing in 4th can be considered less real world for this fact.

While dyno tuning, I would rather be tuning in closer to street conditions than long, hot, air flow less pulls of 4th gear.....

BTW power differences between 3-4th is almost non existent...

[generationjdm]

Tony is it possible to make 625chp on pjk04s stock motor if not whats the max?

[mike-2ptzero]

In general you are comparing aggressively tuned custom set ups with to OTS cars. Time and time again, we have cars dyno at other dynos and make virtually the same power, in more then a few cases MORE.

If I remember currently a stock s4 on AWE's dyno makes low 180's, on my dyno mid 180s. Your talking about 1-2 %, difference.....Come on.

As for dynojets, our cars have dyno'd on 2 dynojets locally here in CT....both have read higher.

Then can you explain the very high readings on your dyno vs the AWE dyno with Modified's A4 1.8t? He even did CAP data runs after each dyno and your dyno had way higher whp #'s but the car took much longer to do the 3rd gear pull on the street.

6.27 sec CAPS: 195 WHP , 186WT @AWE, 60F 10/07/06
6.40 sec CAPS: 220 WHP , 230WT @EPL, 64F 5/13/06

That is a 25whp and 44wt more but yet much slower. That means if the car was making the same power it made on the AWE dyno your readings would have been much higher.

[Tony@EPL]

Then can you explain the very high readings on your dyno vs the AWE dyno with Modified's A4 1.8t? He even did CAP data runs after each dyno and your dyno had way higher whp #'s but the car took much longer to do the 3rd gear pull on the street.

6.27 sec CAPS: 195 WHP , 186WT @AWE, 60F 10/07/06
6.40 sec CAPS: 220 WHP , 230WT @EPL, 64F 5/13/06

That is a 25whp and 44wt more but yet much slower. That means if the car was making the same power it made on the AWE dyno your readings would have been much higher.

And the same day that Modified A4 dynoed at AWE so did a car that dyoned on our dyno the day before that event....it dynoed HIGHER at AWE then the day before on our dyno.

[lil' is 300]

There are other factors besides dyno that could skew the numbers, but generally, I havn't seen any results that prove these K04's are actually 500 whp. Dap only trapped 115 with 500 wheel? And why do hybrids do 470-480 wheel on your dyno but 500 wheel with PJ K04s?

At 500 wheel we're talking about a power to weight of slightly more than 6 HP/LB...these cars should be trapping much faster than what we've seen if that's actually the case.

Also, you say others have actually dyno'd higher on dynojets than your dyno...why would GIAC only be making 430 wheel on their dyno but you 500 wheel on yours? You're really saying it's all in a custom tune? GIAC isn't capable of squeezing out another 70 wheel like you? Raises questions about the dyno, not the tune...

[DAP]

My highest RS4 K04 race gas dyno numbers were done with open exhaust. I never ran at the drag strip in that configuration.

Please do your homework before making your claims. Thanks.

[generationjdm]

Isnt it funny ive asked this question many times will pjk04s make 625chp, i no the answer but as you can see know one wants to answer that question. Why because theres no way to B.S around the question, i believe they no if they say yes its like saying you can make 500whp. Im just curious to see what people think, the reason why i ask is i think its better to send people in the right direction instead of giving them false hope. I think its better business, plus shops will make more money on rs6 kits or gt kits for a 500whp setup i think then just pjk04ss..

[Jesse S.]

Isn't it funny I've asked this question many times will pjk04s make 625chp, i know the answer but as you can see no one wants to answer that question. Why because theres no way to B.S around the question, i believe they know if they say yes its like saying you can make 500whp. I'm just curious to see what people think, the reason why i ask is i think its better to send people in the right direction instead of giving them false hope. I think it is better business, plus shops will make more money on rs6 kits or gt kits for a 500whp setup i think then just pjk04ss..

I had a hard time reading your post so i corrected some of it.

[lil' is 300]

My highest RS4 K04 race gas dyno numbers were done with open exhaust. I never ran at the drag strip in that configuration.

Please do your homework before making your claims. Thanks.

Regardless, where are all of the other Stage 3 S4's making 500 wheel? I mean there has so be some others... Can you name one other PJ K04 making 500 wheel on a dyno other than EPL's? And then answer the question, why are all the high numbers only at EPL? Are you really going to say it's the tune?

I constantly see these hybrid numbers and they can't even get near 500 wheel. Why would EPL make 500 wheel on PJ K04? Either the dyno is VERY happy or EPL is doing something we don't know. I've seen many Stage 3 S4 dyno's with open exhausts and they are no where near 500 wheel.

[generationjdm]

I was at work trying to hide writing that sorry. You should make editing peoples post a full time job, I'm sure this site couldn't make it without you.. P.S Jesse get a life!!!

[Boris]

dude lil is

jsut settle it, drive down to CT and get on that enigma dyno!

[dolphin3]

EPL kicks ass........FTW

[lil' is 300]

Well that answered my questions...

If you check out Mark P's dynos...he's done tons of dyno pulls on several different dynos including EPL, AWE, XX Tuning, KTR etc...

With APR 104 oct Stg3 prod. ver. 2.0 and Open dumps he put down 469wHP/451wTQ on EPL's Mustang AWD-500-SE.

A year later, with the same exact set up and open dumps, he put down 411wHP/377wTQ on AWE's Mustang AWD-500-SE.

So...why did he make 60+ ~ wheel HP and 70+ ~ wheel TQ on EPL's Mustang AWD-500-SE with the same exact set up when AWE uses the same Mustang?

[Tony@EPL]

Well that answered my questions...

If you check out Mark P's dynos...he's done tons of dyno pulls on several different dynos including EPL, AWE, XX Tuning, KTR etc...

With APR 104 oct Stg3 prod. ver. 2.0 and Open dumps he put down 469wHP/451wTQ on EPL's Mustang AWD-500-SE.

A year later, with the same exact set up and open dumps, he put down 411wHP/377wTQ on AWE's Mustang AWD-500-SE.

So...why did he make 60+ ~ wheel HP and 70+ ~ wheel TQ on EPL's Mustang AWD-500-SE with the same exact set up when AWE uses the same Mustang?

I looked at Mark P's site and AWE didnt use the correct dyno set up for an s4 when dynoing Mark's car....So comparing the 2 dyno sessions is completely irrelevantly.

Look at both data sheets and note the weight and hp@50. Both are figures that have to be entered for any car that is dynoed on a mustang and both will play a big role and how the dyno reads. Again, just another reason why dyno's cant be compared and you should have all the facts before comparing dyno results from one dyno to another.

BTW I believe the info that was used by AWE was for a 2wd 1.8t a4, I can confirm this tomorrow.

[GT Sniper]

i made 425whp/445wtq at epl then 2 days later ate awe 414whp/405wtq.
epl uses mustang calibrations while todd at awe told me they use their own custom calibrations. todd told me hp is a little off but the torque is usually way off cause of their own custom calibrations. so get off epl`s ass .you cant compare dyno pulls from a year apart!!!!!!!!!! your smarter then that .you just pulles a marc and thats not a good thing

[Tony@EPL]

Well that answered my questions...

If you check out Mark P's dynos...he's done tons of dyno pulls on several different dynos including EPL, AWE, XX Tuning, KTR etc...

With APR 104 oct Stg3 prod. ver. 2.0 and Open dumps he put down 469wHP/451wTQ on EPL's Mustang AWD-500-SE.

A year later, with the same exact set up and open dumps, he put down 411wHP/377wTQ on AWE's Mustang AWD-500-SE.

So...why did he make 60+ ~ wheel HP and 70+ ~ wheel TQ on EPL's Mustang AWD-500-SE with the same exact set up when AWE uses the same Mustang?

Also if you read Marks notes about his awe dyno session....

"3.) Gas was purchased 10/4/06 and used at drags on either 10/6 or 10/25, then siphoned back out. I noted it was green, not the normal blue as I put it in the car on 2/17. So, it was some sort of mix of 93/104.
4.) Boost was adapting during dyno pulls after changing programs. It was increasing each run in the 3000-5000 range, but still below desired. This caused the lower than expected torque peak value."

He didnt have the correct octane in the car for his race program and boost was low. Just like making statements about Daps car, you should have all the facts before posting about someone else car.

[generationjdm]

Well still waiting for the answer to my question, can pjk04s make 625chp?

[GT Sniper]

with enough boost,octane,meth injection,its possible but at what costs. turbo?head gasket? rods?

[PoloIceberg]

Tony@epl please respond to my emails....that is all.

[generationjdm]

with enough boost,octane,meth injection,its possible but at what costs. turbo?head gasket? rods?

Theres guys who ran 26-27psi and lost power over 23-24.. those little turbos can only move so much air and thats it.. I dont think they can make over 560chp at the very most

[lil' is 300]

Well if RS4 K04's can do 500 wheel I guess I don't need RS6 turbos anymore. Who wants to buy mine?

[JMTx86]

Well if RS4 K04's can do 500 wheel I guess I don't need RS6 turbos anymore. Who wants to buy mine?

Now if you were serious my hand would be raised. . . . . but since we all know that this is not the case. . . Maybe they can make 500 whp??? but for how long and how reliable will that be? Anyone can boost the hell out of a motor (and turbos) and hope for the best on a dyno but when it comes down to it your asking for trouble. . . and isn't reliablity what you want with a street car. Maybe thats just me

[Dr. Jekyll]

Also if you read Marks notes about his awe dyno session....

"3.) Gas was purchased 10/4/06 and used at drags on either 10/6 or 10/25, then siphoned back out. I noted it was green, not the normal blue as I put it in the car on 2/17. So, it was some sort of mix of 93/104.
4.) Boost was adapting during dyno pulls after changing programs. It was increasing each run in the 3000-5000 range, but still below desired. This caused the lower than expected torque peak value."

I can confirm that, I was actually with him that day. He drove for about 2 minutes after adding his green racegas mix and switching programs before jumping on the dyno. Definitely not a lot of time to adapt. Not to mention, it was significantly hotter inside AWE's dyno room, than the outside temp. It was a cooler day IIRC and I was actually sweating inside the dyno room.

[lil' is 300]

Now if you were serious my hand would be raised. . . . . but since we all know that this is not the case. . . Maybe they can make 500 whp??? but for how long and how reliable will that be? Anyone can boost the hell out of a motor (and turbos) and hope for the best on a dyno but when it comes down to it your asking for trouble. . . and isn't reliablity what you want with a street car. Maybe thats just me

Someone actually PM'ed me right after I posted that calling dibs hehe....

[Devious27t]

There are other factors besides dyno that could skew the numbers, but generally, I havn't seen any results that prove these K04's are actually 500 whp. Dap only trapped 115 with 500 wheel? And why do hybrids do 470-480 wheel on your dyno but 500 wheel with PJ K04s?

At 500 wheel we're talking about a power to weight of slightly more than 6 HP/LB...these cars should be trapping much faster than what we've seen if that's actually the case.

Also, you say others have actually dyno'd higher on dynojets than your dyno...why would GIAC only be making 430 wheel on their dyno but you 500 wheel on yours? You're really saying it's all in a custom tune? GIAC isn't capable of squeezing out another 70 wheel like you? Raises questions about the dyno, not the tune...

We have a Mustang dyno also.

[lil' is 300]

So if your Mustang dyno has only read around 430~ wheel HP max on PJ K04's why can EPL make 500 wheel on theirs?

Does GIAC just suck at teh toon?

[Dr. Jekyll]

So if your Mustang dyno has only read around 430~ wheel HP max on PJ K04's why can EPL make 500 wheel on theirs?

Does GIAC just suck at teh toon?

What is it that you are trying to prove? It's dumb to compare dyno numbers unless two cars are dynoed back to back on the same dyno. You trying to Compare dyno's that are on completely different coasts, subject to different temps, cooling, altitude and users, and the numbers you are using to compare were from two completely different cars, being tuned for completely different reasons (one being a one off custom tune, and another being in an OTS development process).

So again I ask, what is the point of all your posts?

[lil' is 300]

Read why we started talking about this in the first place. Either way, i'm done beating the dead horse with this topic.

[generationjdm]

I think lil is 300 is trying to say, 500whp cant be achieved with rs4/ko4s and i agree 1000% its not possible... On some goofy dyno maybe but in reality no.. If so why go through all the cost and trouble to do gt or straight rs6ss if it was