Drag Race - Traction Control on or off?

[wzmivan]

Just a question about traction control....

1. During an all out drag race, traction control on or off?
2. Do you get different top speed with the traction control on or off?

And one out of the box question, why when my car sometimes is forced into a drift, with the traction control on (road wet) Then on my dash, all the warning lights would light up!

[norcatalyst126]

Curious to know about this also.....

I think when the lights light up, the car is basically yelling at you to slow the f*** down....

Oh, and for people with Tip, do you find it faster to have your car in "S"port mode or shift yourself???

[BNZ TOY]

these are great questions and i would like to know too...

[AudiA4_20T]

OK ESP just limits power when the wheels slip. It doesnt raise your top speed or anything but when racing youll want to turn it off (lighting the triangle warning thing up) because you dont want throttle cut while your racing

[wzmivan]

Oh btw i'm a 1.8T Quattro Manual.

Glad i raised this qusestion :D

Anyway was wondering when HPA400A4 did his donuts, don't know if his car dash lights went off as well like mine

[AudiA4_20T]

All he did was turn ESP off and have lots of power. ESP cuts power, so when you turn it off, it wouldnt cut power any more, hence the wheelspin, its not hard to understand

[wzmivan]

Its not that its hard to understand, anyway once again the question of the day is...

Would the lights on the dash still come on with the ESP off on HPA400A4's car?

[Papachristou]

ESP also works with the ABS system and if 400HP had it on it would have been hitting the brakes trying to stop the slide. i ebraked at about 90 on our runway and it controlled the slide very easily without much effort i did it again with ESP off and it was almost impossible to keep from losing it.. then i went and got my new set of tires lol!

and not many 1.8t's need to worry about turning it off during a drag race unless you are Front wheel drive... i dont think many of us have the power to break all four loose at the start! well at least i dont lol!

[Howard Hughes]

If you are at drag strip you want it OFF... On a track... I would leave it ON....

[Daddy MO]

ESP saves lives...

Off during any kind of racing wether it be drag, track, or autocross.

I had it on on accident ontime and ran 4 secs slower during an autocross.

Operation
ESC compares the driver's intended direction in steering and braking inputs, to the vehicle's response, via lateral acceleration, rotation (yaw) and individual wheel speeds. ESC then brakes individual front or rear wheels and/or reduces excess engine power as needed to help correct understeer (plowing) or oversteer (fishtailing). ESC also integrates all-speed traction control, which senses drive-wheel slip under acceleration and individually brakes the slipping wheel or wheels, and/or reduces excess engine power, until control is regained. ESC cannot override a car's physical limits. If a driver pushes the possibilities of the car's chassis and ESC too far, ESC cannot prevent a crash. It is a tool to help the driver maintain control.

ESC combines anti-lock brakes, traction control and yaw control (yaw is spin around a vertical axis).


[edit] Effectiveness
Numerous international studies have confirmed the effectiveness of ESC in helping the driver maintain control of the car, help save lives and reduce the severity of crashes. In the fall of 2004 in the U.S., the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration confirmed the international studies, releasing results of a field study in the U.S. of ESC effectiveness. NHTSA concluded that ESC reduces crashes by 35%. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) later issued their own study that concluded the widespread application of ESC could save 7,000 lives a year. In June 2006, the IIHS updated the results of their 2004 study by stating that up to 10,000 fatal crashes could be avoided annually if all vehicles were equipped with ESC.[1] That makes ESC the greatest safety equipment development since seat belts, according to some experts. The European New Car Assessment Program (EuroNCAP) "strongly recommends" that people buy cars fitted with stability control [2]. On November 21, 2006 the IIHS announced that 13 of the 2007 vehicles had earned their TOP SAFETY PICK rating--- a major new requirement for this top rating is that the vehicle must be equipped with ESC[3] However, some people contend (backed up by the theory of risk compensation) that the perception of safety conferred by the ESC will encourage more dangerous driving, as seems to be the case with seat belts. Among those concerned that ESC is just the latest example of a long and ultimately unsuccessful campaign, in the U.S. and abroad, to make cars that are capable of compensating for dangerous driving behaviour is the Partnership for Safe Driving www.crashprevention.org. The Partnership believes that if no corresponding effort is made to deter speeding, aggressive, distracted and drowsy driving, this technology will not live up to its promise and may, in fact, encourage even more dangerous driving behaviour.


[edit] Criticism
Some driving enthusiasts, most publicly motoring journalists from enthusiast magazines, object to some of the implementations of ESC. They contend that by making it impossible to explore the dynamic behaviour of their cars, overzealous ESC systems spoil much of the fun of driving. Consequently, some manufacturers allow drivers to disable ESC systems, and/or use ESP systems that allow greater levels of under or oversteer before it intervenes. Some even provide a setting so the user can choose whether the system will intervene earlier or later stage. Enthusiasts have also begun to modify ESC systems to suit their preferred driving styles [4].

It has also been argued that ESC is being used as a "catch all" for poorly designed cars, whereby the basic mechanical handling of a car is unstable and ESC is used to compensate for the problem, like in the first version of Mercedes-Benz A-Class that failed the moose test and to fix this, every A-Class was retrofitted with ESC.

Another point of critique is that in the case of very dangerous drivers, the car will be able to be pushed further (and faster) before the limits of the vehicle and ESC are reached, meaning that should the vehicle become "out of control" this will happen at higher speeds, leading to more severe crashes.

In the event that the vehicle is out of alignment or has a tire with low enough air pressure to affect the steering wheel's angle, the yaw rate sensor would conflict with the steering wheel sensor. If this were the case, the vehicle's Powertrain Controle Module may interpret the driver's actions as trying to turn the vehicle, rather than compensation for a mechanical problem. However, ECU programmers are familiar with this type of issue, and use cross-correlation between sensors to identify problems.[citation needed]

[MikTip]

[QUOTE=the question of the day is...Would the lights on the dash still come on with the ESP off on HPA400A4's car?[/QUOTE]

To answer your question, yes.

Why? If you manually turn ESP "off", the light on the dash will remain on, indicating the ESP is off.

If ESP is on, anytime it activates, the light will illuminate, as long as its correcting, then go off.

For straight-line racing ESP will probably not activate.

If street racing through the twisties, it will probably activate.

[wzmivan]

eh think we are talking about the wrong lights. Not the ESC. Coz' sometimes my car goes into a haywire mode where the computer would prompt to STOP and every other light is flashing in my car but the car drives fine. hahahah

think norcatalyst126 knows what lights i'm talking about. Will try post up pics of the lights.

[MikTip]

Sounds like something electrical is wrong with your car.

eh think we are talking about the wrong lights. Not the ESC. Coz' sometimes my car goes into a haywire mode where the computer would prompt to STOP and every other light is flashing in my car but the car drives fine. hahahah

think norcatalyst126 knows what lights i'm talking about. Will try post up pics of the lights.

[norcatalyst126]

If I have ESP on (no ! light on) and i'm pushing the car really really hard on a turn (freeway on & off ramps) my light will flash at me until the cars gets straightened out....

[MikTip]

Thats ESP working 100% normal.

See Daddy MO's post above ^^^

If I have ESP on (no ! light on) and i'm pushing the car really really hard on a turn (freeway on & off ramps) my light will flash at me until the cars gets straightened out....

[A4 TSCHUSS]

ESP is always on unless you hit the ESP button and light up the yellow triangle permanently on the dash. When ESP is working it will flash the triangle.

ESP WILL come on if you try to launch your car in a straight line even with Quattro and cause the car to jerk and fall on its face because it is going to cut your throttle (kill the power) for a brief second (triangle will flash).

To do a donut you will need to turn the ESP off by pushing the button causing the triangle to stay on or it will immediately kill power when it feels the SLIGHTEST slip.

And a donut video of me with ESP off... O yeah and a little extra power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBHXiwe_WiM

[konigwheels]

turn the ESP off if you want good acceleration, you might slip (usually the front wheels break traction) but it wont cut power with ESP OFF (triangle permanently lit). i turn it off almost every time i get in because i dont want it to interfere when driving. im only APR stg 1 and i can get the ESP to cut power with a good 1-2 shift. the only time i make sure the esp is on is when the weather calls for it.

ESP saves bad drivers from hurting themselves.

[[email protected]]

Trying to do a donut in the snow with ESP on was hard.

With ESP off it was a peice of cake.

I was really amazed at how much power that little button has in maintaining control of your car.

[F16HTON]

For me

ESP on...14.70
ESP off...12.85

You make the call

[SlvrB6Turbo]

For me

ESP on...14.70
ESP off...12.85

You make the call

Wow... I didin't think it would make that big of a difference. That's amazing.

[CO AVANT]

I hate esp. Hit a mountain back in '04 because of that shit. Doing some spirited driving in the mountains and came around a hair pin corner. Little did I know that there was pea gravel all over the road. It was too late to slow down so I mash it to try and drive out of it and get her sideways. Too bad since esp was on that absolutely NO power went to any of the wheels since none truely had traction in the computers mind. Since then I never drive with it on during spirited driving and I've never had a problem driving out of stuff when I've been in the same situations like I had been in back in '04. I also never drag with it on.

[Audi Skate Snow]

I read the title of this thread and asked myself

"is this a serious question?"

we have all seen what happens when you leave it on and you try launching your car.

FALLS ON ITS FACE!

[Tgr_Clw]

I can break all four tires loose

ESP also works with the ABS system and if 400HP had it on it would have been hitting the brakes trying to stop the slide. i ebraked at about 90 on our runway and it controlled the slide very easily without much effort i did it again with ESP off and it was almost impossible to keep from losing it.. then i went and got my new set of tires lol!

and not many 1.8t's need to worry about turning it off during a drag race unless you are Front wheel drive... i dont think many of us have the power to break all four loose at the start! well at least i dont lol!

[DenverNoob]

I hate esp. Hit a mountain back in '04 because of that shit. Doing some spirited driving in the mountains and came around a hair pin corner. Little did I know that there was pea gravel all over the road. It was too late to slow down so I mash it to try and drive out of it and get her sideways. Too bad since esp was on that absolutely NO power went to any of the wheels since none truely had traction in the computers mind. Since then I never drive with it on during spirited driving and I've never had a problem driving out of stuff when I've been in the same situations like I had been in back in '04. I also never drag with it on.

i pretty much only drive with ESP on when we have icey roads here in CO. in regular snow, wet, or dry pavement, i have found myself better able to control the car with it off. My rear brakes actually had to be replaced as a result of ESP intervention via the factory waranty because i drove like a bat out of hell when i was 1+ around onramps and the like...the rear brakes went to metal on metal on the inside, while some pad was left on the outside (the dealership was kind enough to cover pads under waranty, i had to buy new rotors).

I can feel it kick in when going through straight line acceleration even if my wheels arent spinning...there is a notable power deficit under spirited driving conditions...so when i need the power, its off.

[audi rick]

all this talk about it. how do you turn it off dont have a switch that i know about on mine.

[Tgr_Clw]

Pull the ABS fuse. That'll turn it off completely.

[CO AVANT]

all this talk about it. how do you turn it off dont have a switch that i know about on mine.

Do B5 A4's even have ESP? I didn't think so. At least for the 1.8T and 2.8's

[Howard Hughes]

^I think they have ESP... you just can't turn it off like in our cars...

[SleeperAvant]

^rofl your sig

[Daddy MO]

^I think they have ESP... you just can't turn it off like in our cars...

I concur...

[CO AVANT]

Searching on AZ B5 forums shows that pre 2000 A4's an older do not have esp. 2000-2001's were an option..

Early '96 and up have EDL (Electronic Differential Lock)

[audi rick]

i do have esp on my 2000.

[initiala4]

I turn mine off when I goto the track!

[audi rick]

just pull the fuse? i believe mine is a b5. pritty sure i dont have a on off switch.

[Rico750]

i pulled the abs fuse and the car went if and does not start till it has the fuse back in.. thats a bummer.. not no wheel spinning goed on my nerves sometimes.. also when you gear up fast it kinda falls on its face... booooring..

[Doss]

i pulled the abs fuse and the car went if and does not start till it has the fuse back in.. thats a bummer.. not no wheel spinning goed on my nerves sometimes.. also when you gear up fast it kinda falls on its face... booooring..

You thought disabling ESP was going to solve your problems? LOL

I'm not sure you know this or not, but if you have a stock A4 (or even a 1 or 1+) and quattro, don't plan on spinning the tires. You'll more likely blow your transmission before it spins the wheels (especially if you have sticky tires).

And, it's going to fall on its face if it has a K03 (stock turbo). Even the K04 has a small spot up top where it's not charging hard.


P.S. Fix your 1337 (l33t, 31337), it's as broken as my Spanish.

<Tone = informative>