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View Full Version : RS5 track feedback: Carbotech, ECS, and dust boot issue



RS5 Ruminator
11-25-2014, 07:34 PM
I took the RS5 cabriolet to Road America in mid October, thought I would post my experience.

I took it bone stock to Autobahn Country Club track in Joliet, IL in July, a track I have run for 50 or 60 track days, hundreds of laps. It was wet for the first session, and I enjoyed blowing off vettes and vipers that had to cool it in the slippery stuff. I kept the nannies on for the early laps then dialed back to the competition mode, but did not turn them off. Then the sun came out. 40 min total and the front pads were done. I headed home.

After reading up on others' experinces I ordered a set of Carbotech XP 12s in the front, and a set of ECS rotors, which only come slotted and drilled but seemed to be a reasonable, less costly alternative to the stock rotors. I had a set of XP8s installed in the rears, with the idea that I could leave the XP8s on in the rear and do the quick-change for the fronts with 1521 street pads and have a setup with an easy change for track duty. The fluid was Endless DOT4, which is the new factory fill for GT3s. The pads came pre-bed from Carbotech.

I took the car to Road America with that setup for the last track weekend of my season. It was cold in the AM (36 degrees and windows down required...), and overall the car did well for the first few sessions, 30 minutes each. The handling was confidence-inspiring, but the car felt as nimble as one might expect from a 4,400 pounder. As the day wore on, there was some extra pedal travel at the end of the sessions, and I was sure to do some extra cooling off on the street between sessions.

After 1.5 hours on track, the front pads were noticeably worn but I had enough for one more session. Spider webs cracks had already begun to form on the rotors. At the end of that session, the setup was done:

Outboard pads were at the backing plate, and the dust boots had deformed:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/vette_ruminator/IMG_2700.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/vette_ruminator/media/IMG_2700.jpg.html)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/vette_ruminator/IMG_2710.png (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/vette_ruminator/media/IMG_2710.png.html)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/vette_ruminator/IMG_2711.png (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/vette_ruminator/media/IMG_2711.png.html)

and the rotors looked like they had way more than just 2 hours/4 30 min sessions on them:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/vette_ruminator/IMG_2736.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/vette_ruminator/media/IMG_2736.jpg.html)

The tires were the stock PZeros, and I tried to keep the pressures in the upper 40s hot/40 cold. The rear pads had plenty left.

I'm sure there were factors related to extra wear: I started the sessions with the nannies on until I knew what the track surface was like. The very cold temps meant large temp swings on the rotors and cracks may have been accelerated from this, etc.

That being said, one of the instructors happened to bring his wife's RS5 cabriolet and they had spoken with Carbotech before the event. Based on the abuse the car would take, Carbotech suggested XP24s in the front, XP12s in the rear for the 2 day event. At the end of day one, when my setup was done, they had nowhere near the same wear, he felt that setup was good for maybe 3 days. He was on the stock rotors.

For comparison, a buddy of mine brought his unicorn to Road America: a blue Cadillac CTS-V wagon with 550 hp and 4,600 lbs. His stock rotors are blanks, and he used Hawk DTC 70 front, DTC 60 rear. After 2 days, he still had plenty of pad left. Food for thought.

At this point, I need to take the XP8s off the rears because the noise when they warm up is driving me nutty.

I need to have the dust boots replaced, and I wonder if anyone on the forum has had this issue. I have been to a few highly regarded local shops and they say they will get back to me re whether they can get the boots or a rebuild kit, but they don't seem to have any answers. I may have to suck it up and go to the dealer and pray for a warranty repair with the thought that the part should not have failed, but I'm not hopeful. The 1521s are on at this point and the pistons are therefore pushed back and not exposed. There no leaks and the pedal pressure etc is normal.

Advice re the dust boot issue??

Thanks

Scotty@Advanced
11-25-2014, 07:47 PM
It would appear that the brakes got severely overheated which would explain everything the cracked rotors, melted dust boots and non existent pads.

However ECS rotors have had significant problems as documented in several other forums..

RS5 Ruminator
11-25-2014, 08:18 PM
Agreed of course. Now the question is what to do re the dust boots? Can they be replaced by themselves?

PsYkHoTiK
11-25-2014, 08:27 PM
I have tried a few compounds from Carbotech and regularly give feedback to Mike Jr @ Carbotech. The XP24 in the front and XP12 in the rear is the way to go (after discussing with him, we decided it's best to update the rear from XP10 to XP12).

Dust boots are sacrificial honestly. I'd also recommend taking off the dust shields for now.

Also, cross drilled rotors are a no-no for track use.


Sent from my Fruit Phone using Tapatalk

RS5 Ruminator
11-25-2014, 08:36 PM
I have tried a few compounds from Carbotech and regularly give feedback to Mike Jr @ Carbotech. The XP24 in the front and XP12 in the rear is the way to go (after discussing with him, we decided it's best to update the rear from XP10 to XP12).

Dust boots are sacrificial honestly. I'd also recommend taking off the dust shields for now.

Also, cross drilled rotors are a no-no for track use.


Sent from my Fruit Phone using Tapatalk

Blanks would clearly have been better. The dust boots have no function? I was under the impression that if they fail the brake system can get corroded, lead to failure, etc. They do not need to be replaced?

PsYkHoTiK
11-25-2014, 08:48 PM
Blanks would clearly have been better. The dust boots have no function? I was under the impression that if they fail the brake system can get corroded, lead to failure, etc. They do not need to be replaced?

Yeah, I always stick to slotted for track use.

The dust boots do have a function, but what I meant by them being sacrificial is that they'll need constant replacing (I typically replace mine at the end of season on my old cars). Using a titanium (alloy) shim would help to preserve the dust boots, but even then, they'll crack (it comes with tracking).

Especially when you get the brakes to glow :)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wlW-qvKiVKk/U6W1OfzFrmI/AAAAAAAAF2k/LWdpqG4wV28/w1253-h835-no/IMG_3149.JPG

RS5 Ruminator
11-25-2014, 08:59 PM
Where can I get replacement boots?

ECS Tuning-Audi
11-26-2014, 07:43 AM
Unfortunately I don't think if you ran a blank or a slotted rotor they would have not cracked. Considering he blew through a whole set of race pads and our rotor didn't break apart I'd say they held up pretty good. I don't think any rotor would have survived that.

The whole face of the rotor is showing fractures not just at the drilled holes. This is evidence of overheating the rotor.

We do have replacement dust boots available below.

Click HERE to order or for more information (www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_RS5--4.2L/Search/SiteSearch/ES349298/ES349298/?salesrep=JMarusic&utm_source=audizine&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=JMarusic&utm_campaign=postreply)

Jason

PsYkHoTiK
11-26-2014, 10:21 AM
Unfortunately I don't think if you ran a blank or a slotted rotor they would have not cracked. Considering he blew through a whole set of race pads and our rotor didn't break apart I'd say they held up pretty good. I don't think any rotor would have survived that.

The whole face of the rotor is showing fractures not just at the drilled holes. This is evidence of overheating the rotor.

We do have replacement dust boots available below.

Click HERE to order or for more information (www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_RS5--4.2L/Search/SiteSearch/ES349298/ES349298/?salesrep=JMarusic&utm_source=audizine&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=JMarusic&utm_campaign=postreply)

Jason

So two sets per car right?

ECS Tuning-Audi
11-26-2014, 10:53 AM
So two sets per car right?

Correct. One set has enough to replace the dust shields for one caliper.

Jason

RS5 Ruminator
11-27-2014, 05:54 PM
Correct. One set has enough to replace the dust shields for one caliper.

Jason

It says on the site that it is a VW/Audi part. It is a true OEM part?

ECS Tuning-Audi
12-01-2014, 07:22 AM
It says on the site that it is a VW/Audi part. It is a true OEM part?

Yes, it is indeed and OEM part.

Jason

rasetsu
12-05-2014, 12:25 PM
Did you put the stock brake parts through previous extremes before swapping to ECS and Carbotech parts? Just wondering how they would have held up under similar conditions.

RS5 Ruminator
12-06-2014, 09:13 PM
Did you put the stock brake parts through previous extremes before swapping to ECS and Carbotech parts? Just wondering how they would have held up under similar conditions.

40 min at Autobahn country club track vaporized the stock front pads and the rotors scored but did not crack or spiderweb and the thickness loss was minimal. I did not check the dust boots after that session. Less rotor wear, more pad wear not sure on boot wear after that short day.

Dfw007
12-07-2014, 06:23 PM
I just finished a track day in the DFW area this weekend, great day, sunny and 65F all day. The track is a 1.7 mile, 9 turn circuit that we ran clockwise, "the backwards" direction. It was fun and very technical in nature. I completed five 20 minute sessions with top speeds on a few of the straights reaching approx. 110 mph. I had no fade or loss of braking power the entire day on my ECS rotors/carbotech pads (XPS10/8). Upon visual inspection, the front ECS rotors look like they are in great shape with no extraneous grooves or excessive smearing of the pads. I will be swapping out the pads on Friday for my street pads. At that time I will get a good look at the rotors and will also take pics of the pads and shield for everyone. I suspect everything will look in good working order. This is my second track day on the rotors/pads.

Dfw007
12-12-2014, 07:50 PM
I finally had my carbo xps 10 pads changed or after my track day. The rotors and pads look great and I had no fade or brake issues on track. Top speed was about 110mph on the straights, 1.7 mile track.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/12/c0a4d84c952f008abb60dff5e30e4ec7.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/12/8bae8eec14842da3d6f977d0728b4944.jpg

ECS Tuning-Audi
12-15-2014, 06:46 AM
Appreciate the review and feed back! Glad you are enjoying the rotors! [up]

Jason

levsky
05-10-2015, 08:59 PM
A word of caution on brakes:
Have been racing my 2013 RS5 since last year; first time at Blackhawk (1.7 mile track, top speed 125 mph) on stock pads and rotors; started with close to 100% front pads; virtually gone by the end of day 2; total of 8 20-minute sessions. Rotors and rear pads held up really well. Replaced front pads with stock pads again since I was not planning to race again until 2015. Have decided to go to Road America for the first time in August 2014. Took it easy the first day. Melted front pads completely after 2 sessions on day 2 despite extensive cooling after each session. Was hitting 145 mph on front straightaway and close to 140 before corner 5. Front rotors showed extensive wear but no cracking. Replaced front set-up this year with OEM R8 front rotors (basically same rotors as RS5 but not scalloped for half the price) plus Hawk HPS pads. First track day at Gingerman (1.7 mile, relatively slow track for a heavy car like RS5); virtually no break wear; tires completely shredded, on the other hand. Went to Road America for one-day event last Saturday. Breaks performed extremely well. Was totally flying the last 2 session of the day. 25 mins into the last session of the day felt softness in the pedal going into the "kink". Have decided not to accelerate into the "chicanes" and, with no surrounding traffic, tested my breaks. The pedal went completely down to the floor with absolutely zero breaking action. Was going about 100 mph at that point. Tried to shift down with paddles but the computer would only let me down to 5th at that speed. Slowed down enough by turn 12 to navigate it safely, then pulled to the side between 13 and 14. By the time the tow truck came to hook me almost 20 minutes later (there was another incident on the track at the same time), the break pedal was close to normal feel. It appears that I have boiled the break fluid. I drove the car around on the street with breaks initially feeling scratchy but then returning to completely normal feel. Drove home for 2.5 hours while periodically testing the break pedal with no issues whatsoever. Only 20-30% pad wear on the front; rotors are fine. Just ordered Castrol SRF break fluid.
I feel very lucky that nothing serious happened due to my breaks failure (imagine complete failure going 140 mph before turn 5). I was running stock recommended 4 point break fluid. I believe that excess heat just melted the pads when I was running stock pads; since HPS are much more heat resistance, the fluid boiled once temperature got high enough. Lesson: definitely upgrade your break fluid if you are upgrading your breaks and pushing the car at a fast track like RA.