The Ultimate Valvetrain Thread

[morzechowski]

Gentlemen,

There are countless threads on here discussing valvetrain components, but none of the threads seem to cover everything. So lets try to put an end to the numerous threads and create a guide for our follow enthusiasts, and friends to follow here.

Discussion is on the 1.8t Valvetrain.



Springs:

- Ferrea Valve Spring/Retainer Kit 1.8T $797.70
- Integrated Engineering 1.8T 20V Valve Spring/Retainer Kit $649.99
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Valve Spring/Titanium Retainer Set $449.99
- Cat Standard $219.00
- Cat Gold $248.00
- Rosten $190.00


Valves

- Ferrea Exhaust Valve Set 1.8T (Super Alloy) Standard or +1mm $282.53
- Ferrea Intake Valve Set 1.8T Standard or +1mm $316.53
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Exhaust Valve Set Standard $159.99
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Intake Valve Set Standard $239.99
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Exhaust Valve Set INCONEL $259.99
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Exhaust Valve Set INCONEL + Single Groove $279.99
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Exhaust Valve Set INCONEL + Single Groove + +1MM $289.99
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Intake Valve Set Single Groove $259.99
- Supertech 1.8T 20V Intake Valve Set Single Groove + +1MM $269.99

Super Alloy

- "Super Alloy valves are made from an extremely heat resistant alloy, that is specifically designed for forced induction and nitrous applications. They have become very popular due to the resistance of high exhaust gas temperatures. This alloy has experienced a great deal of success because it was specifically designed for these applications."

Single Groove

- " For high rpm usage. This setup grips the actual shaft of the valve, rather then relying on the material of the three grooves itself to restrain the valve.



Lifters
- 034 Hydraulic Phosphate Coated $380
- 034 Solid $570
- Cat Solid $869
- OEM Audi Hydraulic $330
- IE, Ringer Racing, Purems all sell INA (pronounced ENA) brand lifters.

IE = $329.99 for a full set of 20
Ringer Racing = $65 per cylinder or $260 for a set of 20.
Purems = $12.95 each intake/exhaust

Solid Lifters:

- "Weighs approx 1/3 of a hydraulic lifter, and prevents valve float to RPM over 12krpm.
- Features raised foot, this can simply be machined to proper valve clearance tolerances, or a valve-stem-keeper can be used as well.
- Intake lifters should be machined to .008" and exhaust should be .012" + or - .001""

Mike Hood -
"Only reason to go solid lifters is if you plan on running solid lifter cams which have to be used with solid lifters and if you plan on going well over 9k rpm which is pretty much why Aaron runs solid lifters on his drag car. I would not suggest running a solid lifter/cam setup on a daily driver."

Hydaulic Phosphate Coated:

- "OEM Replacement
- Quote from 034: "With our high rate valve spring set, we rev to 8300rpm with no valve float problems."

Mike Hood -
"Just stick with hydraulic lifters, I still run them on my car and have gone over 8.5k and even Dan still runs hydraulic lifters and he goes to 9k. Doctor also still runs hydraulic lifters and is just replacing his with a new set. "


Okay so that's a start. Now lets begin discussion, (please provide clear and accurate information as I will copy and paste reliable, accurate information to the original post/list).

Topics to discuss: (wear, maintenance, rpm's, breaking point, reliability)

- Solid lifters vs. Hydro lifters: pro's and cons of each ect.
- Valves: Pro's and cons of - Inconel, Single Grove, +1mm ect.
- Valve guides: brands, materials ect.
- Valve seats: pros and cons of running or not running over sized seats or machining the head.
- Porting: pros and cons between porting with specific valvetrain or displacement combos.
- Lash Caps: pros and cons

Ready, and Go!

[redline380]

Ready, and Go!

ha this reminded me of step bothers

Okay, here's the shot out of the cannon: Oprah, Barbara Walters, your wife. You gotta fuck one, marry one, kill one, go!

[catbed]

You can add CAT, CAT Gold (http://qedpower.com/), and Rosten (http://www.rosten-performance.com/) springs to that list as well. $219, $248, $190 respectively.

[morzechowski]

You can add CAT, CAT Gold (http://qedpower.com/), and Rosten (http://www.rosten-performance.com/) springs to that list as well. $219, $248, $190 respectively.

Added thanks!

[Crispy222]

Rosten makes light weight OEM style hydro lifters. Not sure on price.

You should probably include cams in the list of parts. I know there is a lot of options and opinions. Some are designed to work with solid lifters and some will work with either.

[morzechowski]

Rosten makes light weight OEM style hydro lifters. Not sure on price.

You should probably include cams in the list of parts. I know there is a lot of options and opinions. Some are designed to work with solid lifters and some will work with either.

yea but like you said with cams there are just sooooooooooooo many different options. I think we should leave that for the other threads that are actually pretty well updated with dyno graphs and everything.

[viceprp]

Javad 034:


we recommend springs and retainers if you'd like to rev past 7400rpm, otherwise stock will work up to that rpm.

Given this statement, its safe to say that the stock springs and retainers are good for just over 7000rpm. Looking forward to the results of this thread. If anyone is wondering, I copied Javad's quote from the 3658 cam discussion.

[M-Hood]

Javad 034:



Given this statement, its safe to say that the stock springs and retainers are good for just over 7000rpm. Looking forward to the results of this thread. If anyone is wondering, I copied Javad's quote from the 3658 cam discussion.


I had no problems running my OEM springs to 8k, floated when I started going above 8k.

[morzechowski]

I had no problems running my OEM springs to 8k, floated when I started going above 8k.

This is good news for guys that just want to grab cams and call it a day!

For you guys planning on doing cams and stock valvetrain, just make sure to inspect the cam journals in your head before throwing new cams in.

[034Motorsport]

Mike, one thing we found is that 1mm oversize valves didn't do that much for us over stock size; however, we found even just a "Stage 1" intake porting had pretty dramatic increases in CFM across the board. For this reason, I stuck with stock size Supertech valves on my own AEB head but am doing some fairly major porting work on the intake side. Exhaust seems to flow pretty well already.

[andyrew]

Max, "stage 1", aka a port match? Or what did you do with the runners and bowls?

Curious as i'll be port matching and doing a mild port job in the next year or so.

[morzechowski]

Thanks Max.

[034Motorsport]

Max, "stage 1", aka a port match? Or what did you do with the runners and bowls?

Curious as i'll be port matching and doing a mild port job in the next year or so.

Bowl and runners; not really much port matching, just smoothing/enlarging of the transitions, etc.

http://www.034motorsport.com/oscthumbwm/w/850/h/565/q/95/f/jpg/fltr/wmi%7CphpThumb/watermarks/034watermark%7CC%7C20%7C0/hash/bbbb2edef660739a6071ab5a4f8a869f/src/images/5%20valve%20cylinder%20head%203%20copy.jpg

[andyrew]

Very interesting. Thank you for posting!

[spindoctor]

I had no problems running my OEM springs to 8k, floated when I started going above 8k.

Mike, 8k rpm on the Schrick cams you have?

[M-Hood]

Mike, 8k rpm on the Schrick cams you have?

Yes.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I'd recommend stainless steel exhaust valves as a good value if you're upgrading. At least you minimize the possibility of dropping a valve, as the stock hollow ones can crack. I've paired this with just the rosten springs and taken the engine to 8250 without float.

[bmarshall]

You can remove a bit of material from the machining around the valve seats. There is a bit of a lip there where low lift flow can be increased. I would like to change the inlet valve seats to a larger diameter as the runners are a few mm larger in diameter and it chokes up at the lip of the seats.

[morzechowski]

I'm starting to build a spare head now, is anyone here running solid lifters and would suggest them for daily driving? I would like to bring the shifts to 7.5-8k.

For anyone that doesn't know my setup, I'm already fully built bottom end, gt3076 running e85. made 450whp on my mild winter blend tune.

[jaychen]

I'm starting to build a spare head now, is anyone here running solid lifters and would suggest them for daily driving? I would like to bring the shifts to 7.5-8k.

For anyone that doesn't know my setup, I'm already fully built bottom end, gt3076 running e85. made 450whp on my mild winter blend tune.

solid lifters aren't necessary to goto 8k..

mike hood goes 8k all day long on hydraulic lifters..

[ZimbutheMonkey]

solid lifters aren't necessary to goto 8k..

mike hood goes 8k all day long on hydraulic lifters..

X2, 7500-8000 RPM you'll be fine on stock lifters.

[M-Hood]

I'm starting to build a spare head now, is anyone here running solid lifters and would suggest them for daily driving? I would like to bring the shifts to 7.5-8k.

For anyone that doesn't know my setup, I'm already fully built bottom end, gt3076 running e85. made 450whp on my mild winter blend tune.

Just stick with hydraulic lifters, I still run them on my car and have gone over 8.5k and even Dan still runs hydraulic lifters and he goes to 9k. Doctor also still runs hydraulic lifters and is just replacing his with a new set.

Only reason to go solid lifters is if you plan on running solid lifter cams which have to be used with solid lifters and if you plan on going well over 9k rpm which is pretty much why Aaron runs solid lifters on his drag car. I would not suggest running a solid lifter/cam setup on a daily driver.

[morzechowski]

Can anyone get deals on valvetrain packages? I want to make my order. Valves, springs, lifters the whole gangbang.

[audidude86]

anyone have any info on the spring rates of stock over aftermarket?