B7 Rs4...?

[ESfour]

Pardon my ignorance if this has been posted 1000 times before, however this is my first official post here on Audizine and man I would LOVE to cross over to the dark side if in fact this car "will happen".

I currently own a '02 BMW 325ci, with 18" AC Schnitzer Type III's and some other nice little mods. I'm not too crazy about the direction BMW's are going in (Chris Bangle SUCKS), and surprisingly like the new over sized grille on the Audi's. I don't have the patients to wait for the BMW E90 M3 (2008?), so I figure if in fact Audi will be making a B7 RS4, then consider me part of the family!

[;)]

http://eurotechniks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1482

[Anthony]

Yes there are numerous posts about this. No official word from Audi yet, regarding price and/or availability. But yes, it will happen. The new B7 S4 will arrive towards the end of next year, the RS4 probably not until the following year.

[Imperial]

Hello and welcome to the Dark Side, haha! Another BMW defector at the hands of Bangle's design team? I don't blame you...hell, I'm right there with you. I used to be a die-hard Bimmer-head, too, but oh how times have changed, haha.

So with respect to the B7 RS4, check out stuff in these threads:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24229

and

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27913


Both those threads have spy shots of what is believed to be a B7 RS4 being tested in Germany. There should be some info in there about potential engines and a time-frame for availability, too. Rumor also has it that certain dealerships are taking orders for them already, too!

Hope you find what yuo're looking for there and that you'll be joinging our family soon [:D]

[WildCat]

Originally posted by Imperial
Hello and welcome to the Dark Side, haha! Another BMW defector at the hands of Bangle's design team? I don't blame you...hell, I'm right there with you. I used to be a die-hard Bimmer-head, too, but oh how times have changed, haha.

So with respect to the B7 RS4, check out stuff in these threads:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24229

and

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27913


Both those threads have spy shots of what is believed to be a B7 RS4 being tested in Germany. There should be some info in there about potential engines and a time-frame for availability, too. Rumor also has it that certain dealerships are taking orders for them already, too!

Hope you find what yuo're looking for there and that you'll be joinging our family soon [:D]

Great ifo Imperial!

I was at the Auto Gallery in Woodland Hills today, www.laautogallery.com , also a Ferrari, Maserati, Porsche dealer; and the salesman there told me that they would be recieving the B7 S4's sometime around September 2005. He also said that because of U.S. emission standards, the B7 RS4 likely will not be hitting U.S. shores. The L.A. auto show is in about 2 weeks, I'm sure that I cen get more up to the date info on the RS4 there.

[Anthony]

If the RS6 made it over here, no reason they couldn't make the RS4 work here as well.

[CTOM9]

What is the price range of this? With the new line of luxury "sport" supercars, something tells me that Audi will be confusing with this car. Especially if it competes with the RS6.

With the S4 in the mid 50 range, I would presume that the RS4 would be priced in the M5 and E55 range. And, at that price, I am getting the bigger, luxury sport car.

I would also think this car would hurt S4 sales. People with the funds for both would take the RS4. What role would the S4 have?

Just my .02

[WildCat]

I definetly do not think that the RS4 will be priced comparable to the M5 and E55, considering when the RS6 was out (and I heard its coming back) it was priced around 75,000 - 85,000 which is the M5 / E55 range. I would guess that pricing on the new RS4 would probably run around 60K - 66K.

[OverSpun]

anthony, i heard the new S4 would be out in March. not the end of next year.

[Anthony]

Originally posted by OverSpun
anthony, i heard the new S4 would be out in March. not the end of next year. I think that's too soon. But we shall see.

[OverSpun]

yea, possibly. the S-Line was scheduled for september, so i hope they dont push that back too much further...

[jimmyrecluse]

Originally posted by WildCat
I definetly do not think that the RS4 will be priced comparable to the M5 and E55, considering when the RS6 was out (and I heard its coming back) it was priced around 75,000 - 85,000 which is the M5 / E55 range. I would guess that pricing on the new RS4 would probably run around 60K - 66K.

Agreed. I also talked to my dealer (the manager is a friend - we are both German) and said the RS4 is coming end of next year and will have 420 HP and 400 lbs of torque. This is what he was told.

Im guessing pricing will be around 60 -65k

[Imperial]

Audi needs to reevaluate their pricing standards sometimes as they set the RS6 to about $80,000 while Mercedes-Benz priced their more powerful at $70,000, not including whatever markup there may have been. Not to knock em cuz I love em, but Audi's the underdog here and setting your price ABOVE that of a well-established competitor releasing a relatively well-known product is not a bright idea. I sincerely hope that Audi bears that situation in mind when pricing the RS4. Inherently, it's not one to compete with the E55 or the M5 considering that it's a smaller sedan, so they should keep that in mind...


But who am I to say, right? I wish Audi would listen to it's enthusiast community sometimes, I feel like it'd REALLY put them on a good track...

in my opinion, of course [;)]

[ESfour]

Imperial, I couldn't agree more. I think what it comes down to is, assuming that Audi does in fact re-release the RS4 and RS6, it would be ridiculous if they price the RS4 in the 70K range then the RS6 in the upper 80's low 90K range. One would assume that the B7 S4 will be priced around 51-55K, now granted you guys are more of "Audi Experts" than myself, but I would certainly think the low to mid 60's is where we will see the RS4.

I have been driving around local L.A. Audi dealers like a mad man, hoping I can get my name on a list for this car!

[B6NogaroS4]

The B5 RS4 was not sold in the USA, so the B7 might not be either. On the other hand, Audi needs a car to compete with the next M3, which will have a 400 hp V8. The Audi 4.2 liter N/A engine with 340 hp is nice, but it is not a direct competitor, the way the 250 hp B5 S4 was no competition for the E46 M3 with 333 hp when it first came out. That's why we got the B6 S4.

A 420 hp B7 RS4 is proper competiton for the next M3. But it will have to be competitively priced. Let's assume the BMW creeps up in price to say, $60,000 - 65,000 from the mid-50s for the E46. Audi has to be able to sell the RS4 in that range, or not nearly enough people will pay a premium for it.

[Anthony]

There will be a premium on the RS4, it's more car than the two-door M3. And quattro, BMW doesn't have that. [:)]

[JetBlue]

Actually the S4 should be the direct competitor with the M3 while the RS4 should be the competition for the M3 Evo.

What Audi seems to miss is that quattro requires 10% more power than competitors to get similar numbers. I can see an RS4 for $65 to $70K if the performance justifies it. The new M5 will be around $90K so expect a 500 HP RS6 for a similar price. Audi should be a little more aggressive to buy market share in this round. Get more people into the car and with the next body rev you can get an equal price. If they did a light weight RS line I think they would clean BMW's clock. Something like the MTM RS6 with 4 second 0-60 times would be something that everyone would lust after. If they did these in very limited numbers it would be a great Halo car.

The other issue I see is that they need to move the motor farther back in the frame. The weght bias in these cars is horrible. It is very noticable when you start to push hard. They could go on a serious diet as well. About 15 years ago Honda did this with their MX bikes. They made every bolt, frame member, and part as light as possible without sacraficing strength. I think the cars might be a little over built. Just my opion though.
MO

[B6NogaroS4]

One thing is for sure, the S4 needs to go on a serious diet. My B6 weighs 3800 lbs.!!! That's horrible. If you need 10% more hp for the awd, you need another 10% for the weight differntial, the S4 needs 480 hp to compete with a 400 hp M3

One thing is for sure. German car makers don't understand weight reduction like the Japanese do.

[Imperial]

yes, the B6 DEFINITELY needs to go on a diet! Hell, put it on Atkins if need be! TRIMSPA EVEN! 3800lbs is ridiculous. The B6 is sooo heavy. I remember when I had my B6 1.8T I seriously could sense the mass of it and it just did not lend to a very sporting feel. The Audi lineup in general could use some weightloss, I think. The A8, despite it's all-aluminum space frame, still weighs 4000+ lbs, I believe. And when you factor in the weight and dynamics of the Quattro system, it just adds to the problem. They declared recently that they're not going to compete in the "horsepower war" and are going to instead focus on putting the power to the ground instead of just making a ton at the crank. We'll see if they can make good on that claim, heh

Better weight distribution would be a nice touch, too. BMW's pull of an almost 50/50 weight distribution and THAT is something. It improves the feel of the car, too, you know? Granted it's not completely dispersed equally, but it's pretty damn close.


You know, considering everything we've discussed here, I just can't help but feel that Audi's not very serious about establishing itself near, if not at, the top of the German automobile manufacturer hierarchy. They have such potential and they just don't seem to want to maximize on it. Either that or they have some SERIOUSLY skewed vision of how to get to wherever it is they're headed...

[:p]

[B6NogaroS4]

The B6 S4 is a great car on the street. It is just awful on the racetrack. Sure, it's fast in a straight line, but when you get into the twisties, it is just so heavy that it comes in behind almost anything else.

I don't think Audi could strip enough weight out of the B6 to make a serviceable lightweight model. They need a smaller, lighter car with the 4.2 liter V8 in it to compete with M3, 911, Corvette, EVO, S2000 and Sti on a racetrack (road course).

[astris]

Originally posted by B6NogaroS4
The B6 S4 is a great car on the street. It is just awful on the racetrack. Sure, it's fast in a straight line, but when you get into the twisties, it is just so heavy that it comes in behind almost anything else.

I don't think Audi could strip enough weight out of the B6 to make a serviceable lightweight model. They need a smaller, lighter car with the 4.2 liter V8 in it to compete with M3, 911, Corvette, EVO, S2000 and Sti on a racetrack (road course).

Watch the Top Gear video with the M3 and S4. In stock forms the M3 takes it in a straight line and the S4 takes the M3 on the track. So, I think your info might be a little off.

Anyways, yes the S4 could be lighter. Though, it is a 4 door in all fairness and awd is heavy as hell. Cut two of those doors off and it would be a beast.

[jimmyrecluse]

^ Iread that the S4 in the Top Gear Video was not broken in. I can say from experience that my car was faster and got better gas mileage after it was broken in.

The car is heavy...


I also read that Audi was going to concentrate on handling braking and weight reduction rather than trying to out do Mercedes and BMW with HP numbers.

[B6NogaroS4]

I've seen the Top Gear video. Their conclusion was that the M3 was more fun on the track, but the S4 was the preferred car for daily driving on the street.

That's borne out by the many HPDE track days I have run in the past year. There are always lots of E46 and E36 M3s out there. A few B5 S4s, and rarely a B6 S4. I realize that BMW has sold a shidload more M3s than Audi has sold S4s, but still, if you look at what people are running at the track, it ain't the B6 S4.

[astris]

Originally posted by B6NogaroS4
I've seen the Top Gear video. Their conclusion was that the M3 was more fun on the track, but the S4 was the preferred car for daily driving on the street.

That's borne out by the many HPDE track days I have run in the past year. There are always lots of E46 and E36 M3s out there. A few B5 S4s, and rarely a B6 S4. I realize that BMW has sold a shidload more M3s than Audi has sold S4s, but still, if you look at what people are running at the track, it ain't the B6 S4.

True. I thought you were saying that the B6 S4 was no good on the track, whereas Top Gear and other articles have found the S4 better/faster on the track than the M3, albeit a little less fun.

[ESfour]

After a couple more L.A. area Audi visits yesterday, just about every dealer that I have spoke to has confirmed that the car "most likely" will be hitting the states in early 2006. One guy went as far to say that it may be here in November 2005 [rolleyes], doubt it.

He also mentioned that they may include DSG as an option on the 2006 B7 S4 and B7 RS4. My question to you guys is does the DSG add even MORE weight?
[confused]

[astris]

Originally posted by ESfour
After a couple more L.A. area Audi visits yesterday, just about every dealer that I have spoke to has confirmed that the car "most likely" will be hitting the states in early 2006. One guy went as far to say that it may be here in November 2005 [rolleyes], doubt it.

He also mentioned that they may include DSG as an option on the 2006 B7 S4 and B7 RS4. My question to you guys is does the DSG add even MORE weight?
[confused]

That is good news. I have heard of the DSG making its way into the S4s. They are already putting DSG on other models. I'm not sure about added weight though. Either way, the RS4 is supposedly going to have quite a bit of weight reduction making it significantly lighter than the S4.

[neoprufrok]

early 2006? too early.. my lease doesn't run up till 2008!!! [:D]

[ESfour]

I think you can guess where my mind's been lately

This was taken off of the AutoCar website...
Quote »

Audi unleashes 425bhp super A4
An even faster and more focused Audi RS4 will make its debut at next March’s Geneva Motor Show. Caught here in prototype guise undergoing high-speed handling tests at the Nürburgring circuit in Germany, the second-generation four-wheel-drive saloon represents an important change in Audi’s performance-car portfolio by foregoing traditional turbocharged power for a highly-tuned naturally aspirated engine.

The about-turn is part of a broader plan instigated by chairman Martin Winterkorn that aims to focus greater attention on Audi’s engineering prowess and further boost the image of its fledgling Audi Sport operation in the face of stiff competition from BMW’s M and Mercedes-Benz’s AMG divisions.

Based around the German car maker’s existing five-valve-per-cylinder 4.2-litre V8, the new RS4’s engine gains a host of lightweight internal components as well as modifications to the inlet and exhaust systems to help extend its top end and increase power. An impressive 425bhp is rumoured – some 44bhp more than the first-generation turbocharged 2.7-litre V6 RS4 launched in 2000 and 61bhp up on the recently facelifted S4 (see gallery).

‘We want to show that we can deliver a high-powered naturally aspirated engine,’ Audi engine boss, Wolfgang Hatz, told Autocar’s German sister publication auto motor und sport.

As with its predecessor, the new car channels its power through a six-speed manual gearbox and four-wheel-drive system. A dual-clutch DSG gearbox could be an option.

Despite tipping the scales at over 1600kg, the new car’s straight-line performance should be more than a match for the likes of the BMW M3 and Merc C55 AMG. Ingolstadt insiders hint at a 0-60mph time below the original RS4’s mark of 4.9sec and a top speed likely to be limited to 155mph, although the recent RS6 Plus is said to be good for 175mph before the limiter cuts in.

To ensure it is able to cope with the added power, Audi has brought some substantial changes to the standard S4’s chassis. Autocar’s scoop photographs reveal it gets wider tracks, a lowered ride height and 18-inch wheels among other more detailed changes. An estate is also expected.

Meanwhile, Hatz has ruled out that the evocative RS badge will be applied across the Audi line-up in the future. ‘The RS name is reserved for the A4 and A6,’ he says.