How to - MegaSquirt on the 1.8t

[pac1085]

--
this is just a preliminary draft, it will be updated over the next few days until I get it where I want it
--


http://msextra.com/ms2extra/General_Pix/logo_phpBB.gif

What it is:

Full standalone engine management
Inexpensive & reliable


What it isn't:

Plug & play
Backed by a company. If you have problems, you need to troubleshoot them yourself, or go to the message boards. If you want support, I'd suggest going with Autronic, AEM EMS or Lugtronic.



The hardware/software used in this how to:

MegaSquirt v3.0 PCB w/ MS-II CPU (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-engine-management-system-wpcb3-assembled-unit-p-65.html)
Modded with an extra ignition driver (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/bosch-bip373-coil-driver-mod-kit-p-230.html) and the MapDaddy 4 Bar MAP Sensor with Barometric Correction (http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mapdaddy-bar-map-sensor-with-barometric-correction-p-117.html)
MSnS-E v2.0.1 firmware (http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=28357)
TunerStudioMS (http://www.efianalytics.com/TunerStudio/)
MegaLogViewer (http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/MegaLogViewer/)
A laptop with a serial port, or if you only have USB ports I highly suggest the Keyspan USA-19HS USB/Serial adapter.



Some basics:

can use the stock coolant & inlet air temp sensors, stock TPS, stock VR sensor, stock hall sensor (not needed unless you want to do sequential coil on plug or better control over semi-sequential fuel injection - adding the hall sensor requires more hardware mods to the MS PCB)
In order to keep the tacho working, you'll need to keep the stock ECU in the car, and split the VR sensor into two connections, one going to the stock ECU and the other to the MegaSquirt. If you want to get rid of the stock ECU, you could buy a tacho output kit for the MegaSquirt. I've never tried that though.
you'll get rid of your mass airflow sensor, but need to run a vacuum line to the ECU's map sensor.
MS2/Extra supports closed loop boost control using a valve like the N75 but I have not got around to that yet and won't cover that here.



Fuel:

This is a batch fire system. That means that there are two injector outputs on the ECU, and each one drives a pair of injectors.

I recommend going with 2 squirts / alternating, and wiring output 1 to injectors 1/3 and output 2 to injectors 2/4.



Ignition:
You'll be using a wasted spark ignition, so you'll need to buy these three things:

034 High Output 4-Cyl Waste Spark Coil (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?products_id=40)
Wire Set, VW 16v for 034 Wastespark Coil (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?products_id=429)
1.8t Plug Wire Adapter (http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?products_id=366)

*You can use just about any 4-cylinder wasted spark coil pack & plug wires, I just like the 034 because they sell the matching plug wires and adapters...and we know what dwell it's good for (up to 4ms according to Javad)
**MS2/Extra does support sequential coil on plug ignition using stock AEB coil packs, but at this time it causes the amount of cranking time required to start the car to go way up, so I'd stay away from it for now. It also requires additional hardware mods (2 more ignition drivers, and an input circuit for the hall sensor.)


The important stuff!

Here is a great page with the sensor pinouts and calibration values (http://rush.smolly.nl/changes/change4_2.htm)

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7586/96569608bs3.jpg
*the required fuel value shown here is for a 2.0l engine with 630cc injectors running at 4 bar fuel pressure. yours will likely be different.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7910/68205793ze7.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4669/56449258yj0.jpg
Update: correct trigger angle is 78 degrees.

Here's a timing map to get you started:

260 9 9 9 9 8 6 6 6 6 6 6 6
230 9 8.8 8 8 8 7.5 7.5 8 8 8 8 8
200 12 12 12 12 12 11 11 11 11.5 11.5 11.5 11.5
150 10 10.8 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
100 10 10.8 20 20 20 20 20 28 28 28 28 28
80 10 16 28 28 28 28 28 35 35 35 35 35
70 10 16 28 28 28 28 28 35 35 35 35 35
60 10 16 28 28 28 28 28 35 35 35 35 35
50 10 16 28 28 28 28 28 35 35 35 35 35
40 10 15 28 28 28 28 28 35 35 35 35 35
30 10 15 28 28 28 28 28 35 35 35 35 35
20 10 15 28 28 28 28 28 35 35 35 35 35
700 800 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 4000 4500 5000 6000 7000


Caveats:

Just like any other standalone, it won't work on a DBW car unless you convert it to cable-throttle
You won't be able to use your air conditioning
Your car will not pass OBD-II inspection
Doesn't seem to support the stock throttle body's built in idle control.
Issues when using low-impedance injectors without resistors.
Lack of a good knock detection solution.

[pac1085]

reserving this post

[pac1085]

and this one

[Don Supreme]

very good info PAC!

[JK35]

AWESOME! you're the man, Pac

[b5a4gt28]

Wow, that is some crazy stuff...

[arorem]

AWESOME!!!!!!!! my cousin is running mega squirt on his mav. I have always wanted to do it on the audi.

[NK2007]

you are a good man!

Its about time someone took the leap!

[andyrew]

I was surprized that none of you BT guys dont use the new Megasquirt system...

[Siena]

This would be great here in the UK, a lot of the VW Golf II / III boys run MS with their 1,8T conversions.

My questions are:

1) How do you get your car through emissions?
2) Is there any way to retain your DIS (Driver Information System) if fitted?

[pac1085]

1) How do you get your car through emissions?
2) Is there any way to retain your DIS (Driver Information System) if fitted?

1) just like any other standalone. I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but if all they do is a tail pipe sniffer, you CAN tune it to pass. However, if they require an OBD-II readiness check, you're out of luck.

Personally, I re-install my stock injectors, maf, etc, and run the car off the stock computer for a week to pass the OBD-II inspection. They don't do the sniffer here (yet!)

2) No clue, I don't have one in my 97. Highly doubt it can be made to work though.

[Siena]

Just the tailpipe sniffer test here.

I'm going to be running my S8 4,2L V8 in my '96 B5 QS, but using VEMS.

I might be able to find a way to keep the stock V6 ECU with certain parts of the original sensors hooked up to maintain the DIS function.

We'll see.

[Enclave]

Great job on the Howto. Just did a second standalone install myself. Wondering how you checked timing on your car, did you use the marks on the crank pulley or the cam timing marks? If you used the crank pulley, did you do this with the frontend in the service position. I cant seem to read off the crank pulley because of the space constraints.

Thanks.

[pac1085]

Great job on the Howto. Just did a second standalone install myself. Wondering how you checked timing on your car, did you use the marks on the crank pulley or the cam timing marks? If you used the crank pulley, did you do this with the frontend in the service position. I cant seem to read off the crank pulley because of the space constraints.

Thanks.

I had originally used the mark on the cam gear which gave me a 1st tooth angle of 78 degrees but the car never felt 'right'.

After I built my new engine and saw the marks on the crank pulley and the plastic cover, I decided to check those with the timing light - lo and behold I was off. I then found the correct 1st tooth angle to be 80 degrees, and the car has been running great ever since.

If it's clean down there (no gunk on the plastic cover) then you can check it without having to put the car in service position. I also don't have an AC belt so if you do that might make it harder.

[Don Supreme]

PAC,

Do you have a recommendation for a good VEMS forum or website?

[1NaudiA4]

You could definitely tune it to pass the sniffer. I passed Illinois emissions running a 3" exhaust with no cat on my IIC. I just retarded the timing at idle a few degrees and leaned it out. Would be even easier if you have a cat.

[pac1085]

PAC,

Do you have a recommendation for a good VEMS forum or website?

VEMS Wiki (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/)

That's really the only place I know where to get info on VEMS. It's very weird and hard to navigate at first but once you start to understand how it works, you'll find that there is tons of info there. There's a ton of info applicable to other standalones there, too.

[Don Supreme]

VEMS Wiki (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/)

That's really the only place I know where to get info on VEMS. It's very weird and hard to navigate at first but once you start to understand how it works, you'll find that there is tons of info there. There's a ton of info applicable to other standalones there, too.

Exactly what I was looking for... I kept ignoring the site due to the .hu domain.

[pete@integrated]

VEMS is a lot of work to configure the firmware and such for. In the interest of spending less time compiling / configuring and more time driving, I would pay the extra for one from Kevin.

The VEMS ecu is a LOT more ecu then the megasquirt though, and the real automotive connectors are really nice to have. Plus, IIRC they are surface mount components right? Vibration + non surface mount stuff isn't a great combination.

[Beemer832]

i have been going bakc and forth with kevin at lugtronics. His product/software looks very promising. I won't be pulling the trigger on a SEMS for quite some time but I figure mgiht as well start investigating now.

Thanks for all the help so far guys. Good luck with your projects!

-josh

[JK35]

whoa! Pac, I just caught something in the "Caveats"
You said "you cant use your A/C" ????? [o_o]

please tell me this isn't absolutely concrete, absolute, 100% for certain

If there is no way around this, I'll be listing a full and I mean FULL Megasquirt system for sale very soon. (and by "complete" I mean every thing you could possibly buy from DIY Autotune except for the digital display kit...


I live in Florida, and further, I just spent $$$$$ converting my A/C to Aeroquip nylon lined aerospace (braided stainless AN) lines and fittings. I GOTS ta have A/C. not even an option down here...

What makes it so you simply CAN'T have your A/C???

[yellowbird911]

A few questions for you. First when you used the factory temp sensors did you disconnect them from the factory ecu or just splice into them, was not sure if the gauges would still work if they were disconnected. I am using GM sensor but would like to simplify my set up. Also do you have a nsg avaliable. Have been using the Megasquirt V3 for about six months on a 97 AEB, fuel only and a remapped factory ECU. Will be adding spark soon. It runs fair but acc enrichment is not purfect nor is starting enrichment. One really odd thing is that at idle on the fuel map is around 60 and full boost (15) is around 35, have know idea why but the A/F is around 12 a WOT. Does your fuel map look like this? Thanks

[yellowbird911]

Hey JK35, the ac will work just fine as long as you leave the factory ECU inplace. Mine work fine with megasquirt.

[pac1085]

A few questions for you. First when you used the factory temp sensors did you disconnect them from the factory ecu or just splice into them, was not sure if the gauges would still work if they were disconnected. I am using GM sensor but would like to simplify my set up. Also do you have a nsg avaliable. Have been using the Megasquirt V3 for about six months on a 97 AEB, fuel only and a remapped factory ECU. Will be adding spark soon. It runs fair but acc enrichment is not purfect nor is starting enrichment. One really odd thing is that at idle on the fuel map is around 60 and full boost (15) is around 35, have know idea why but the A/F is around 12 a WOT. Does your fuel map look like this? Thanks

I installed a second coolant temp sensor, so I have one plugged into MS and one plugged into the stock computer (there's an extra port on the cylinder head coolant flange that you can install a second sensor in) I did not connect the MAT sensor back to the stock ECU, no need to.

I'll have to post a MSQ some time...need to bust out the laptop and figure out where to host the file.

Not sure about your fuel map, that doesn't seem right.

[Enclave]

Hey JK35, the ac will work just fine as long as you leave the factory ECU inplace. Mine work fine with megasquirt.

Actually if you look at your pinouts, the stock ecu talks to the climate control head (depending on the year of your car). For my 2001.5, I actually had to disconnect this wire and the A/C works fine now. Only problem is that the idle control is not 100% so I can stall the car if I turn it on in stop and go traffic.

[pac1085]

On my 97, the AC would only partially function(wouldn't work at idle/low load, would only come on above certain RPM's, very unpredictable) without the throttle body being plugged into the stock ECU. It worked fine when the car was running on MS as long as the throttle body was plugged into the stock ECU, but I couldn't run the car like that since I needed a TPS for MS. (and you can't splice into the TPS wires since the stock ECU is 5v closed-0v open and MS requires 0v closed-5V open)

[Enclave]

Mine didn't work at all until I plugged in my DBW TB. However once I disconnected the ecu from the climate control head, it worked fine. If you want to do a little experiment, try disconnecting the A/C control head from the stock ecu. Looks like pin 8,10 on your 1997 A4 ecu pinout.

[pac1085]

Unfortunately I can't, since I removed the AC when I installed the built motor. Thanks for posting that though, may help some other people.

BTW, what are you doing to make sure the AC compressor turns off at WOT? (that's why it normally needs a TPS signal, so it can shut off if you go WOT, incase you didn't know)

[Enclave]

Right now, I barely use the AC so I havnt thought of that. That is somewhat simple though. You could use 1 digital input and 1 pwm channel. I'm not sure how many I/O megasquirt, so you might not want to waste them on this.

Have the A/C comp relay be controlled by the standalone and have the relay signal from the A/C control head go to your standalone. Basically like how the stock ecu is setup.

I'm not sure if megasquirt has a dedicated a/c control setup in the software but on mine I can define the PWM as being A/C control and there are maps to turn it off based on DPS, speed, coolant temp etc...

[DarkLightning]

My 98 A4 AEB is entirely stock and I have had MS installed for over two years, though I've never been able to make it run stable enough to trust. Following your how-to I've re-re-reached the I-can-idle-but-can't-drive stage because the fuel VE tables are way off. Will you be able to post an msq or fuel VE chart?

Thanks again for the info.

[elballoonrat]

i am incredibly interested in this. Keep the info coming. My goal right now is to get a mega-squirt setup and running on a stock engine so that others have a fuel map to start with and possibly lead in to true plug and play MS setups. [:)]

[onemoremile]

I'm moving this to the projects subforum where it won't get lost and will reach it's intended audience.

Excellent thread!

[pac1085]

Thanks! I'll try to update it some time.

I can post my config file for anyone that wants it - any idea where to host the file?

[Maki]

Awesome project! Will be great help when I'm installing MS in my A4 this winter.

[Side-Step]

Just wanted to add that I have a Lugtronic PNP on my wife's Avant.

I've been thinking of removing the OE TB and going with a non-intergrated idle curcuit and use the older IAC valve. I'm in the process of gathering parts and will post up any updates.

[biketsai]

Just wanted to add that I have a Lugtronic PNP on my wife's Avant.

I've been thinking of removing the OE TB and going with a non-intergrated idle curcuit and use the older IAC valve. I'm in the process of gathering parts and will post up any updates.

Let us know how that goes!

[schmally]

whoa! Pac, I just caught something in the "Caveats"
You said "you cant use your A/C" ????? [o_o]

please tell me this isn't absolutely concrete, absolute, 100% for certain

If there is no way around this, I'll be listing a full and I mean FULL Megasquirt system for sale very soon. (and by "complete" I mean every thing you could possibly buy from DIY Autotune except for the digital display kit...


I live in Florida, and further, I just spent $$$$$ converting my A/C to Aeroquip nylon lined aerospace (braided stainless AN) lines and fittings. I GOTS ta have A/C. not even an option down here...

What makes it so you simply CAN'T have your A/C???yes sir hot and muggy as balls!!!!!!!!!!!!

[monza20vt]

Hi guys,
Just started the conversion of an AEB motor to megasquirt injection as it has found it's way into the engine bay of my mk2 Golf!
Interesting thread you have going here I can host the file for you if you want to mail me it to monza20vt AT hdvag.co.uk :)
I have a couple of base maps for the 1.8t engines and will keep updating this thread as I progress over the next few weeks/months :)
The only thing I am unsure on at the moment is the ignition side of things as the coil on plug setup looks a bit tricky but I think I have that sorted now have to use wasted spark and treat each COP as a seperate coil.
Will keep an eye on this thread, any wiring info you have greatly received. :)

[yanmar]

Just wanted to add that I have a Lugtronic PNP on my wife's Avant.

I've been thinking of removing the OE TB and going with a non-intergrated idle curcuit and use the older IAC valve. I'm in the process of gathering parts and will post up any updates.

Why do you want to do that? Is the Idle motor not doing the job properly?
I installed my lugtronic today and the idle is not bad even with his basic settings.

[Side-Step]

For the A/C.

[JK35]

crank sensor, cam sensor and vehicle speed sensor (VSS)
have me stumped.

The crank sensor has 3 wires, ground, 1.6v and 1.6v. the two 1.6v wires appear to be the same thing...
Is this a VR sensor? does it trigger on rising or falling edge? how do you configure for the 60-2 wheel?


the cam sensor, a single window hall, I have determined the 3 wires to be 5v, 12v/0v sensor signal, and sensor ground.
But is this triggered on rising or falling edge?


Last, I found a VSS on the drivers side of the transmission. it has only 2 wires to it. one a ground, the other an 8v/0v sensor signal that switches from 8v to 0v 4 times for each revolution of the axle. what kind of sensor is this? it can't be a hall, because there is only 2 wires, right? is it a VR sensor of some kind? also, does anyone know if it is rising or falling edge triggered?


Has anyone determined the TPS pinout for stock TB and also for it's idle control? It is a stepper motor idle control right? which idle pairs go to which pins on the stock TB connector?

[pac1085]

No clue about the hall sensor since I don't have it hooked up. I also don't remember the wiring on the VR sensor since I haven't touched it since 2007.

As far as the TPS pinout, there's a link in my first post to the pinouts:
http://rush.smolly.nl/changes/change4_2.htm

As far as I know, no one has got the built in idle motor working on any standalone. It's not a stepper motor, it's some sort of weird PWM.

[Kyle H]

You guys need to get to work on this so that I'll have a base file to use when I do MS on my car. [:D]

[JK35]

Ummm... yeah. there are quite a few Megasquirted cars, and the "base tuning" you refer to is readily available, although there is no such thing as simply downloading someone elses tuning, uploading it into your own tuning software/vehicle, and expecting any good results.
Not trying to be a dick, but that comment is a perfect reason you should NOT even consider Megasquirt.

Megamanual and the Megasquirt forums are a good place to study before jumping into Megasquirt.

[Side-Step]

I'm still trying to figure out how to use the older idle control, but was wondering what others are using to get there Audi's to idle or not cut off. My wife is getting upset with me because of this.

[pac1085]

What do you mean by 'older idle control'?

I haven't done it yet, but I decided I'm just going to buy a bosch pwm iac valve and use that.

[4bagels]

What do you mean by 'older idle control'?

I haven't done it yet, but I decided I'm just going to buy a bosch pwm iac valve and use that.

If I understand the basics of it correctly, it's got a kooky motor that physically opens the throttle blade slightly to control the idle, you can actually feel it with your foot on the throttle when it adjusts for the A/C going on and off. It also has 2 TPS potentiometers, one which is used normally to detect throttle angle through the whole range, and a special second one which measures just the first part of the opening for higher resolution for use with idle control.

So why did they design this overcomplicated solution when much simpler solutions had already been in place for years? My guess is that they wanted to get their "feet wet" with Drive-By-Wire without the total commitment of it, so that they would be better prepared for the next generation that would use drive-by-wire.

[somebody5788]

I have a complete wiring harness from a 2001 Auto 1.8t. If anyone wants it to run stand alone w/ PM me w/ an offer. It's in good condition except for a couple of clips here and there that aren't what they should be but will work I believe.

[pac1085]

Wouldn't be that useful since it doesn't have the drive by cable throttle body connector on it.

[somebody5788]

I figured it would work for someone w/ an ATW engine though. I mean you may have to convert to drive by cable to use the megasquirt IDK but it should still work w/ the TPS right?

[pac1085]

I played around with PWM idle with the stock throttle body the other day a bit, and wasn't able to make it useful with the PWM frequencies that the MS2/Extra offers (multiples up to 8 of 30.5hz) - I think it runs at a much higher frequency. I bought this board: http://www.jbperf.com/pwm_converter/index.html which will hopefully allow me to use the idle motor in the stock throttle body. If not, I purchased a 2-wire bosch PWM IAC valve which works at 80hz, I just don't really want to weld a bung into my manifold.

[Enclave]

I played around with PWM idle with the stock throttle body the other day a bit, and wasn't able to make it useful with the PWM frequencies that the MS2/Extra offers (multiples up to 8 of 30.5hz) - I think it runs at a much higher frequency. I bought this board: http://www.jbperf.com/pwm_converter/index.html which will hopefully allow me to use the idle motor in the stock throttle body. If not, I purchased a 2-wire bosch PWM IAC valve which works at 80hz, I just don't really want to weld a bung into my manifold.

I've tried up to 60hz with my standalone, its better but the control is more on and off. I actually am using a 3-wire bosch iac valve and just ran a hose from the valve to one of the ports on the intake manifold. Works great and have full closed loop idle control. Even set it up to bump up the idle when I turn on my A/C.

The only issue I ran into and you might also is that the built in iac motor leaves the throttle plate open a little bit causing a higher base idle. I solved this by reversing 12v and gnd to the built in iac motor that closed the throttle plate completely giving me full control of where the idle is with the 3-wire bosch iac valve. The cable mechanical portion of the TB is completely separate from the built in iac motor so there are no safety concerns with that.

[Kyle H]

So is anybody DD'ing a megasquirted car yet?

[pac1085]

Mine was my DD from mid 2007 till dec 2008, then I bought the V6.

[JK35]

As many of you know, I have the AEM Race EMS on my B5, and have gotten incredible results by it. I'm working on development of a drop in and plug in mil-spec wiring harness to allow anyone who can afford AEM EMS, to have it!
The tuning is to a point that you can essentially stick the key in the ignition, crank it up and drive away, and with Autotuning activated, and EGT feedback 02 feedback, knock control and a number of other features used, a 3-5mile drive is all it takes to achieve VERY close results.
and remember, EVERYONE knows AEM... Find a tuner at a dyno shop that doesn't, and I'd say something's wrong with that picture.

The ignition system I chose to use on MINE is a TwinFire CDI and Denso Pencil Coils. -works great, I love it, BUT! there is something better I found for the systems I am trying to develop for market...
and this is why I am posting here...

Have any of you tried to use the D585 CPP / CNP setup?
There's a lot of people using these coils with superb results. from AUDI to Nissan to you name it! I'm finding these in use by professional motorsport teams even, and since my AEM drop in system needed a cost effective, stable and POWERFUL ignition system, I thought I'd give this a try.
-Glad I did...
If anyone is interested insetting up an ignition system like this, be it for Megasquirt, 034 or pretty much any standalone platform... I'd be happy to share what I know. just drop me a message!