M3 dual clutch

[Audi newguy]

Drove a 08 M3 dual clutch today. Car is fast. My S4 feels a little stronger but the M3 moves quicker. Car feels lighter than my S4. Especially in 2nd and 3rd upper RPM range car really moves. Transmission is smooth. Shifts are solid. Car feels faster and shifts are smoother than the manual trans. I think I might be going over to the dark side. I actually work for BMW MINI and with our employee lease program it just makes more sense financially to go with the BMW. Love the S4 though but the service at the Audi dealership in hawaii is not that great. In the process of selling my S4. Audizine has been great. Everybody was cool. Good Luck to you all.

[Auditude2.0T]

Have you driven an RS4? IMO it feels a lot stronger than an M3.

[Grey D.]

First part you have to get for any E90/92 M3...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVM6fWjNVEk

[Audi newguy]

Have you driven an RS4? IMO it feels a lot stronger than an M3.

I have driven an RS4 and yes it does feel stronger than the M3. Between my S4 and the RS4 there was only a noticable difference in the upper RPM ranges. Say 5000rpm till redline. Over here in Hawaii they are asking a 15,000 markup over MSRP for an RS4. That is crazy. The last one I saw was stickered at 88,000.00 Crazy. Love both Audi and BMW. The both have their ups and downs. I could go either way. For me personally it's makes more sense to go with the BMW. It's too bad that the service at the Audi dealership over here is not up to par with the BMW dealership experience and service because the Audi product is killer. I'm sure you guys don't have that problem where your at.

[lrae]

First part you have to get for any E90/92 M3...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVM6fWjNVEk

That sounds....ok. But eisenhaus sells an F1 valvetronic exhaust known as the Kresiegg. Its around $8,000 last time I checked but it by far has the best sound.

[notachance]

nope same problem here too. Dealers suck for the most part

[Quattroownsyou]

Been thinking of going M3 Sedan also (almost went and put a deposit on one last month). However, with used RS4 prices coming down, i'm tempted to stay with Audi. Agree on the dealership experience (Audi service sucks period.)

The one thing that bugs me about the M3 is the fact a modded 335i can easily pass for an M3 sedan. Add to this that fact that the V3 (Vishnu) 335 is incredible value when compared to the M3 and it becomes even harder to decide what to get. My brother has a V3 335 and its fast as shit 12.6-12.7 quarter mile.

Not sure what i'll be getting, probably put the S4 up for sale first and then drive all three cars back to back.[headbang]

[12:03]

Last year I sold my SMG M3 for an APR Stg 3 B5 (black with sport). Torque was the answer. HOWEVER IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMPARE THE NEW ONES, BMW is the one ALL the way (I have driven BOTH).

Some references:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usQi1peqQOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhPW9wcizzA

This quote is from the end of the last one:

"small fast german saloons is what BMW does best, the other two are just copies. Albeit good copies, they are copies either way"

[Auditude2.0T]

I don't know, i would keep the S4. there is something about the new M3. The E46 is hot but the new one is...

[Tiesto]

Wait for the B8 S4.

[exadius]

As an owner of both the M3 M-DCT and an RS4 I have to say they are 2 different cars. The Audi is a fast luxury car and the M3 is more of a sports car. If you drive both you will know what I mean. I love the DCT in the M3, and the MT in the RS4 is way better than the MT in the M3. I love gadgets and the M3 fills that need more than the RS4.

You have to compare Audi to BMW. My M3s EDC(electronic damper controler) failed on the way home after deliver and when I got it back I got a $100 credit from the dealer. When I brought in my RS4 for its first service one of the ECMs failed to take the flash update and it took 30 days to get the replacement part. Audi and there dealership did nothing for me!

[sayemthree]

let me first say I love all german cars especially Audi and VW. We owned a 2004 S4 Avant 6MT for three years. It was the most dependable car in 32k miles we have ever owned. not one single tiny issue or repair reuired. just maint by the book. I tracked the S4 and had a blast passing BMW's in a wagon.

that said we traded it for a 535itx 6MT which does everything the S4 did and more. plus much more room inside. and weighs the same with AWD. even tho the 535 is only rated 300 hp dyno tests put it at closer to 330 hp stock very close to the 340 of the S4.

I now drive a e92 M3 but in 6MT. I can not comment on DCT but I love the new M3. I drove both a RS4 and S5 on a pretty extensive test drive before getting the M3 and I have to say the M3 easily won my heart and my pocketbook. The R8 is hot and may have got me away from BMW but I need a 4 seater and its bigger bucks. For that much I would be tempted by a GT3.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/sayemthree/june2008020.jpg

[Grey D.]

That sounds....ok. But eisenhaus sells an F1 valvetronic exhaust known as the Kresiegg. Its around $8,000 last time I checked but it by far has the best sound.

[hail][hail][hail][hail]


I don't like it. [>_<]

[mixja]

I've just traded out of an Audi RS4 owner, after in the past week having driven both the M3 Manual and M3 DCT for a couple of hours each time. Needless to say, an M3 DCT sedan is on order...

First of all, the spec of each car:
- 2007 Audi RS4 Manual, 14000kms, Ceramic Brakes, Sports Suspension Plus, Milltek Downpipes + Exhaust, Wetterauer ECU remap, K&N Filter
- 2008 BMW M3 Coupe M-DCT, 500kms, Stock
- 2008 BMW M3 Sedan Manual, 5000kms, Stock

1st Place - M3 DCT
DCT adds some much needed character to the new M3 sedan. The DCT increases performance noticeably and is intoxicating when pushing the car and engine to its limits.

I hate to say it, but this transmission has swayed me to the M3 - it is the perfect match for such an amazing power plant.

The shorter ratios made the M3 DCT feel like it was the even of the modified RS4 up to 5000RPM, and once past 5000RPM, the DCT felt quite a bit quicker than the (modified) RS4. The shorter gearing of the car means more torque to the wheels, without the penalty of losing momentum during gear shifts due to the DCT transmission, and the wide power band of the M3 engine ensures each shorter gear carries enough speed.

The difference in ratios is clearly demonstrated by BMWs quoted 80-120km/h times - 4.2s for the DCT Coupe and 4.9s for the Manual Coupe (both in 4th gear - incidentally, the RS4 times around 4.0s using the inbuilt lap timer as a stopwatch)

Pluses:
- DCT transmission - amazing!
- Prodigious top end pull
- Perrfectly balanced chassis
- The fastest of this lot

Minuses:
- Exterior styling not quite right
- Interior styling more up to date than RS4, but somewhat clinical and sterile
- Doesn't quite have the character of the RS4

2nd Place - Audi RS4
The RS4 certainly exudes more character than both of its M3 counterparts in terms of exterior and interior styling. The transmission is much better than the M3 manual - gear throw is shorter and notchier, and the clutch is much more solid.

Performance wise, the modified RS4 felt like it had more torque than the M3 manual, and just as much top end pull. Of course without modifications, the M3 manual would be the quicker car, certainly once the tacho needle swings past 6000RPM.

The throttle pedal is much more sensitive on the RS4 than both M3 models, this could be a good thing or bad thing depending on your driving style.

In the handling department, the Sports Suspension Plus option makes the Audi handle quite a bit better than the standard setup, but it still can't match the perfectly balanced M3.

Pluses:
- Excellent low/mid-range torque
- Still pulls hard up top, just not as hard as the M3
- Tremendous handling considering the V8 mill sits a mile forward of the front axle
- A true muscle car, its roughness around the edges and brutish nature give it a character the M3 can't quite match
- Better all-weather performer

Minuses:
- In stock form, performance gap to the M3 I feel is too great
- Even modified not as much top end pull as the M3, especially the DCT
- Dated interior, but still more engaging than the M3 interior.

3rd Place - M3 Manual
Honestly, I would not buy this car - the transmission, which is so important in any manual performance car, just doesn't cut the mustard. Firstly the clutch - it's so soft compared to the RS4 - and it feels like you almost ride the clutch during fast gear changes. The throws are much longer than the RS4, and there is just not the precision as you shift through the track between gears that the RS4 possesses. The taller gearing of the manual also reduces some of the excitement of the car - I find the RS4 much more fun to drive and the M3 DCT, well, out of this world. Really you need a race track to get full enjoyment of the M3's prodigious power band with the manual box - the shorter geared RS4 and M3 DCT have much more enjoyment factor for both urban and country driving.

Pluses:
- Prodigious top end pull
- Perfectly balanced chassis

Minuses:
- Manual transmission and clutch a disappointment
- Not as exciting as the others
- Exterior styling not quite right
- Interior styling more up to date than RS4, but somewhat clinical and sterile

[sayemthree]

First of all, the spec of each car:
- 2007 Audi RS4 Manual, 14000kms, Ceramic Brakes, Sports Suspension Plus, Milltek Downpipes + Exhaust, Wetterauer ECU remap, K&N Filter
- 2008 BMW M3 Coupe M-DCT, 500kms, Stock
- 2008 BMW M3 Sedan Manual, 5000kms, Stock


The throttle pedal is much more sensitive on the RS4 than both M3 models, this could be a good thing or bad thing depending on your driving style.



The M3 has three throttle settings, normal, sport and sport plus. interesting that you compared a 6MT Sedan vs. a DCT Coupe.

[mixja]

The M3 has three throttle settings, normal, sport and sport plus. interesting that you compared a 6MT Sedan vs. a DCT Coupe.

Yeah even with sport plus the throttle pedal still seemed quite a bit less sensitive than the RS4. That said, you could argue the RS4 pedal is too sensitive (I think it is a bit too sensitive) - in the end one adjusts his/her driving style to match and I don't think it is an issue.

In terms of coupe vs sedan, the only DCT tester was a coupe and I only tested the manual variant because I wanted to get a feel of the M3 Sedan. I don't think there will be any noticeable performance difference, the sedan is only 20kgs heavier, in fact the M3 Coupe with DCT is 5kg heavier that a manual M3 sedan!

[sayemthree]

Yeah even with sport plus the throttle pedal still seemed quite a bit less sensitive than the RS4. That said, you could argue the RS4 pedal is too sensitive (I think it is a bit too sensitive) - in the end one adjusts his/her driving style to match and I don't think it is an issue.

In terms of coupe vs sedan, the only DCT tester was a coupe and I only tested the manual variant because I wanted to get a feel of the M3 Sedan. I don't think there will be any noticeable performance difference, the sedan is only 20kgs heavier, in fact the M3 Coupe with DCT is 5kg heavier that a manual M3 sedan!


the middle M3 setting feels good to me. too much sensativity is not good.

the M3 sedan with MR ias almost two inches taller than and 50 pounds heavier than the copue at the highest aprt of the car - probably makes much more difference in handling over the extra wieght of DCT. anyway I am sure you will love it.