Nitrogen in tires

[PESAPC]

Okay ... so the folks at RUSNAK are luring us in to change the air in our tires (COMMERCIAL ON RADIO THIS WEEKEND - ' come in by July 14th!!!') ... to Nitrogen ... admittedly, I did not know all the details about the pros / cons so......... consider yourself educated with the following:

http://www.getnitrogen.org/ - check out the groovy calculator too! My supposed annual savings approximates $241.33 ... er ... cool - combination of tire life and less fuel used.

According to the website - ENDORSED by big jaw JAY LENO ...

Nitrogen in tires is becoming a popular replacement for standard air. Nitrogen is all around us... the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and the rest is small amounts of other gasses. When it comes to tire inflation, nitrogen has many advantages over oxygen. With nitrogen tire inflation, improvements can be noted in a vehicle's handling, fuel efficiency and tire life through better tire pressure retention, improved fuel economy and cooler running tire temperatures. Here at the Get Nitrogen Institute our goal is to provide consumers, over-the-road truckers, fleet managers and others information about the benefits of using nitrogen in tires.

So who the hell sells the stuff for a new fix? Pop in your zip code and be dazzled by the apparent fact that COSTCO is one of the predominant dealers. Who knew, right?! But ya gotta buy tires from them ... not!

Another website states the following:

Nitrogen tires maintain proper pressure up to three times longer because nitrogen diffuses through tire walls more slowly than air. This gives drivers several important safety and performance advantages:


Problems associated with under-inflation are reduced. Under-inflated tires run hotter and wear faster due to increased rolling resistance. A tire that is 10 percent under-inflated will lose approximately seven percent of its service life.
Tires maintain their strength longer. Nitrogen-filled tires show twice the life to failure in both field and laboratory tests due to absence of interior oxidation caused by the oxygen in compressed air.
Tires perform better. Nitrogen can help increase tire mileage by as much as 25 percent. Tires that are properly inflated respond better to steering input and handle better.
Tire pressure is more consistent. Compressed air expands at varying rates depending on the amount of water vapor it contains; nitrogen is "dry" and expands at a consistent, predictable rate.Isn't that damn interesting?!!
Yeah ... my weekend is now complete.

[cam]

yeah i had this done a couple months ago, car has a more consistent ride

[ngng]

it's a scam; if you're racing yes/maybe. do you check your air pressure regularly? if so, does it really matter if your nitrogen is diffusing 3 times slower? do you really need the supposed 25% grip on the street? you're probably aware of nitrogen used on bike race tires, the key here is the expansion of "air" vs nitrogen. that being said, we still just use pump air when we mount up our race tires.

[ieatfishburitos]

I saved $300 last year with nitrogen in my tires!

[1145climber]

if it's free, go for it... but if you have to pay to fill up on nitrogen, then it's not worth it...

[AudiOso]

It's so strange that this post would come up. I plan on getting my tires inflated with Nitrogen on Monday. I don't care if it costs a little money. The gas savings and tire wear savings will make it a worthwhile investment. I drive 94 miles a day in my Avant. I need anything that will help with my gas mileage.

[PESAPC]

I figure WTF ... it is free so I will let them 'change the air in my tires' ... which sounds a bit stupid but let's see how my DPE's roll ... I check my pressures often enuf that the 3 times longer angle is a BFD to me but if I can make the time for the exercise I will.

When I have raced my scooter and cars regular ole air worked just fine so ...

[kooltechie]

Okay ... so the folks at RUSNAK are luring us in to change the air in our tires (COMMERCIAL ON RADIO THIS WEEKEND - ' come in by July 14th!!!') ... to Nitrogen

so Rusnak is offering to change it for free?
bought my car from them a couple of months ago, but, if it's a free offer, does it apply to their customers only?
TIA!

[PESAPC]

I heard FREE ... knowing them, FREE come with a catch like 1/ you have to buy an R8 or 2/ only on Fridays between 5:07 and 5:09 PM &/or some such shit.

[40valve]

ZOMG I BOUGHT DIZ AND I GOT LARGER PEN1S

http://www.performancemarket.com/images/brand/tornado.jpg

Seriously, just check your pressure once a week like you should and you'll be fine.

[cam]

costco charges $4 a tire fyi

[PESAPC]

zomg I Bought Diz And I Got Larger Pen1s

http://www.performancemarket.com/images/brand/tornado.jpg

Seriously, Just Check Your Pressure Once A Week Like You Should And You'll Be Fine.

Tooo Funny .... Lol!

[REDLINE]

I heard FREE ... knowing them, FREE come with a catch like 1/ you have to buy an R8 or 2/ only on Fridays between 5:07 and 5:09 PM &/or some such shit.

haha wednesday is the rs4 special tho

[CanuckRS4]

Dude, atmospheric air has 78% nitrogen! You think an extra 22 percent will make that big a difference...it's a marketing scam!! My background is chemistry, i wouldn't fall for that trick ever. Don't believe the hype. It's a great scheme though, i have to admit.

[PESAPC]

Dude, atmospheric air has 78% nitrogen! You think an extra 22 percent will make that big a difference...it's a marketing scam!! My background is chemistry, i wouldn't fall for that trick ever. Don't believe the hype. It's a great scheme though, i have to admit.

My background and expertise is in real estate and litigation ... er ... chemistry ... what dat?!?!?! It is THE LURE to sell schmucks on shit eh?!

[CanuckRS4]

I believe the main rationale for using nitrogen over oxygen is that "they" claim nitrogen is a bigger molecule that leaks slower than oxygen, so tires maintain pressure better.
Consider this: Oxygen is made up of two oxygen molecules. Nitrogen is made up of two nitrogen molecules. The bond between the oxygen molecules is approx 1.21 Angstroms. The bond between Nitrogen molecules is 1.09 Angstroms.
FYI, an angstrom is 1 x 10(-10)meters , in brackets that should be superscript. In laymans terms, an angstrom is one ten-billionth of a meter. It's small, REALLY small.
If you're following this, the distance between two nitrogen atoms is actually smaller than oxygen, so where does this size thing come from? It's ALOT more complicated than this because bond strengths/atomic radius/temperature etc come into play, but basically what i'm say is that these molecules are so friggin small, they will escape from a vacuum sealed glass container. I know this because I have done research on chemicals in vacuum and they escape through the porous glass, albeit very very slowly.
So both of these will in my opinion escape at the same rate from a tire which has thousands of microscopic holes where the tire meets the rim.
I'm just sick of this Nitrogen scam, it makes no sense! :)

[evil_O]

I believe the main rationale for using nitrogen over oxygen is that "they" claim nitrogen is a bigger molecule that leaks slower than oxygen, so tires maintain pressure better.
Consider this: Oxygen is made up of two oxygen molecules. Nitrogen is made up of two nitrogen molecules. The bond between the oxygen molecules is approx 1.21 Angstroms. The bond between Nitrogen molecules is 1.09 Angstroms.
FYI, an angstrom is 1 x 10(-10)meters , in brackets that should be superscript. In laymans terms, an angstrom is one ten-billionth of a meter. It's small, REALLY small.
If you're following this, the distance between two nitrogen atoms is actually smaller than oxygen, so where does this size thing come from? It's ALOT more complicated than this because bond strengths/atomic radius/temperature etc come into play, but basically what i'm say is that these molecules are so friggin small, they will escape from a vacuum sealed glass container. I know this because I have done research on chemicals in vacuum and they escape through the porous glass, albeit very very slowly.
So both of these will in my opinion escape at the same rate from a tire which has thousands of microscopic holes where the tire meets the rim.
I'm just sick of this Nitrogen scam, it makes no sense! :)

...stopped reading at "Angstroms"

[RAudi Driver]

I believe the main rationale for using nitrogen over oxygen is that "they" claim nitrogen is a bigger molecule that leaks slower than oxygen, so tires maintain pressure better.
Consider this: Oxygen is made up of two oxygen molecules. Nitrogen is made up of two nitrogen molecules. The bond between the oxygen molecules is approx 1.21 Angstroms. The bond between Nitrogen molecules is 1.09 Angstroms.
FYI, an angstrom is 1 x 10(-10)meters , in brackets that should be superscript. In laymans terms, an angstrom is one ten-billionth of a meter. It's small, REALLY small.
If you're following this, the distance between two nitrogen atoms is actually smaller than oxygen, so where does this size thing come from? It's ALOT more complicated than this because bond strengths/atomic radius/temperature etc come into play, but basically what i'm say is that these molecules are so friggin small, they will escape from a vacuum sealed glass container. I know this because I have done research on chemicals in vacuum and they escape through the porous glass, albeit very very slowly.
So both of these will in my opinion escape at the same rate from a tire which has thousands of microscopic holes where the tire meets the rim.
I'm just sick of this Nitrogen scam, it makes no sense! :)

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/indifferent/indifferent0023.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-adult-smileys.php)

[pyro]

mazda has been fillin all of their cars with nitrogen, and when i check the pressure each month, both the mazdas in my family have lost more air pressure than the ones filled with regular air. its a scam, and most places will charge you to will it anyways.

[S4J]

I believe the main rationale for using nitrogen over oxygen is that "they" claim nitrogen is a bigger molecule that leaks slower than oxygen, so tires maintain pressure better.
Consider this: Oxygen is made up of two oxygen molecules. Nitrogen is made up of two nitrogen molecules. The bond between the oxygen molecules is approx 1.21 Angstroms. The bond between Nitrogen molecules is 1.09 Angstroms.
FYI, an angstrom is 1 x 10(-10)meters , in brackets that should be superscript. In laymans terms, an angstrom is one ten-billionth of a meter. It's small, REALLY small.
If you're following this, the distance between two nitrogen atoms is actually smaller than oxygen, so where does this size thing come from? It's ALOT more complicated than this because bond strengths/atomic radius/temperature etc come into play, but basically what i'm say is that these molecules are so friggin small, they will escape from a vacuum sealed glass container. I know this because I have done research on chemicals in vacuum and they escape through the porous glass, albeit very very slowly.
So both of these will in my opinion escape at the same rate from a tire which has thousands of microscopic holes where the tire meets the rim.
I'm just sick of this Nitrogen scam, it makes no sense! :)

Thanks...that's what I was going to say.

[PESAPC]

I believe the main rationale for using nitrogen over oxygen is that "they" claim nitrogen is a bigger molecule that leaks slower than oxygen, so tires maintain pressure better.
Consider this: Oxygen is made up of two oxygen molecules. Nitrogen is made up of two nitrogen molecules. The bond between the oxygen molecules is approx 1.21 Angstroms. The bond between Nitrogen molecules is 1.09 Angstroms.
FYI, an angstrom is 1 x 10(-10)meters , in brackets that should be superscript. In laymans terms, an angstrom is one ten-billionth of a meter. It's small, REALLY small.
If you're following this, the distance between two nitrogen atoms is actually smaller than oxygen, so where does this size thing come from? It's ALOT more complicated than this because bond strengths/atomic radius/temperature etc come into play, but basically what i'm say is that these molecules are so friggin small, they will escape from a vacuum sealed glass container. I know this because I have done research on chemicals in vacuum and they escape through the porous glass, albeit very very slowly.
So both of these will in my opinion escape at the same rate from a tire which has thousands of microscopic holes where the tire meets the rim.
I'm just sick of this Nitrogen scam, it makes no sense! :)

er ... great, thanks, I just threw up in my mouth [rolleyes] But I do feel smarter thanks to you ... greatly appreciate the insight!

[1145climber]

I believe the main rationale for using nitrogen over oxygen is that "they" claim nitrogen is a bigger molecule that leaks slower than oxygen, so tires maintain pressure better.
Consider this: Oxygen is made up of two oxygen molecules. Nitrogen is made up of two nitrogen molecules. The bond between the oxygen molecules is approx 1.21 Angstroms. The bond between Nitrogen molecules is 1.09 Angstroms.
FYI, an angstrom is 1 x 10(-10)meters , in brackets that should be superscript. In laymans terms, an angstrom is one ten-billionth of a meter. It's small, REALLY small.
If you're following this, the distance between two nitrogen atoms is actually smaller than oxygen, so where does this size thing come from? It's ALOT more complicated than this because bond strengths/atomic radius/temperature etc come into play, but basically what i'm say is that these molecules are so friggin small, they will escape from a vacuum sealed glass container. I know this because I have done research on chemicals in vacuum and they escape through the porous glass, albeit very very slowly.
So both of these will in my opinion escape at the same rate from a tire which has thousands of microscopic holes where the tire meets the rim.
I'm just sick of this Nitrogen scam, it makes no sense! :)


though I definitely don't think nitrogen is worth a dollar in our tires, i'm not quite sure your explanation is correct. proponents of nitrogen claim that N2 is "bigger" than O2, which is why tires lose their pressure more slowly. though maybe the bond length between the two nitrogen molecules is shorter, i dont think bond length has much to do with the rate at which a gas escapes anyway.

Graham's law of effusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_law) states that the "rate of effusion of a gas is inversely proportional to the square root of the mass of its particles" Therefore, the fact that N2 is LIGHTER than O2 is what really contradicts their claims, not the fact that the bond length is shorter.

but then again, i'm no chemistry major...

either way, I wouldn't pay a dollar for the 21% difference between pure N2 and just air

[CanuckRS4]

though I definitely don't think nitrogen is worth a dollar in our tires, i'm not quite sure your explanation is correct. proponents of nitrogen claim that N2 is "bigger" than O2, which is why tires lose their pressure more slowly. though maybe the bond length between the two nitrogen molecules is shorter, i dont think bond length has much to do with the rate at which a gas escapes anyway.

Graham's law of effusion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_law) states that the "rate of effusion of a gas is inversely proportional to the square root of the mass of its particles" Therefore, the fact that N2 is LIGHTER than O2 is what really contradicts their claims, not the fact that the bond length is shorter.

but then again, i'm no chemistry major...

either way, I wouldn't pay a dollar for the 21% difference between pure N2 and just air

You just made my point, it's a complicated issue at the molecular level, but when using Nitrogen in tires in the real world, these calculations would not apply.

[PESAPC]

Here's the link for ya'll ...

http://rusnakonline.com/nitrogen/nitroFAQ.asp
http://rusnakonline.com/nitrogen/nitroben.asp

I love this reference:

Will I void my manufacturer or tire warranty by filling my tires with nitrogen?
No. Most major tire manufacturers including Continental, Michelin, Goodyear, Dunlop, BF Goodrich, and Bridgestone support nitrogen technology to improve the life and performance of their tires. In fact, Ford Motor Cars has released a study praising the effects of Nitrogen.

whew ... I was damn concerned ... [o_o]

[cit1991]

Actually a nitrogen molecule is made of two nitrogen atoms. Same for O2.

The savings only apply if you're one of those who checks his tire pressure only when buying new tires.

[FTYAVANT]

hahaha as long as FORD says its ok..it must be good...HAHAHA..