Time for another GTRS build thread!

[B6Lovin]

I know that a GTRS Eliminator is nothing new to the AZ community, but this is my first BT build, and in this thread I am going to document my progress as I go, trouble shoot any questions that I (or anyone else) may have, and hopefully create a semi-organized area to house most of the info that is going into my build.

That being said - After I am done I am going to create a total start to finish writeup which will include every stage of the process which i go through, a back-log of parts which i had in place before i started the build, prices, time to complete, difficulty, a list of parts and tools, where i sourced everything from, lots of pictures, instructions on install and how i fabbed up some pieces, etc etc etc.

To start off this thread, I was wondering if there was anything that is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to my build that I left off of the following list:

TIP (Custom 3")
Injectors (Greentops)
GTRS w/hardware (ATP)
Exhaust (Custom 2.5" Turbo-bak)
Intercooler (Custom)
Clutch (Southbend OFE SS)

I am also probably going to do a manifold - but I haven't heard whether or not it's really that much of a gain... if it is I'll do it - I figure if it breaks I can always get a new one for free from ATP and use my stocker in the mean time.

Another maybe is WMI - I plan to do it eventually, but for the initial build I think I'll hold of and save myself some money. It's only about 100 bucks, so it'll follow up shortly.

That's all for the first post - I'm going to try and keep it more organized by having a couple posts which i can edit as i go along [up]

[B6Lovin]

Ok, Time to knock out the TIP


I'm doing a Custom 3" Tip as designed by Shawn - GTRS 3" adapter, "cobra" pipe, 90 degree tight radius pipe, metal pipes to hold em all together, and a spare coupler to hold it to my MAF

I have a question though - I'm going to have to tap my own vac fittings and return hoses etc... and I'm planning on removing my SAI and I already have a hole for the DV return... I haven't gotten into my engine bay just yet to see what all I'll need - but does anyone know what all is A) involved in removing the SAI, and what (if any) problems that may cause. and B) how many fittings that means i'll need on my TIP.

I know i need EVAP, and i think PCV? any more?

edit with a pic --
here's the parts i picked up off of shawn (huge thanks to him!) the rest should be in soon, as well as my FMIC stuff.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/DSC01012.jpg

[winston@podi.ca]

You could always try one of these pipes we made

http://podi.ca/winstontemp/blitzpipes/pipe_elim1.jpg

[B6Lovin]

i would if i had the money and if i hadnt already picked up some parts from shawn - the way i'm doing it, the whole TIP is only gonna cost me about 75 bucks... but i'll allow that shameless plug [:)] hahaha

anyone know what/how many fittings i'll need? (as in, what each one goes to)

[B6Lovin]

also - if any of the GTRS (or other BT setups) guys have any pointers as to install or problems you had along the way please let me know. I'm trying to compile the absolute largest database of BT info i can... i'm shooting for a "little or no surprises" build. (hahaha im not expecting it to happen though)

[winston@podi.ca]

Are you thinking of using the Bosch 440cc greentops?

I spoke to Scott at USRT and he told me to skip on them and use the Genesis 430cc units instead as they have a much better spray pattern.

[dougyfresh]

Or, you can buy my Delphi 440cc injectors.......


Brand new, never used.

[jcs4]

also - if any of the GTRS (or other BT setups) guys have any pointers as to install or problems you had along the way please let me know. I'm trying to compile the absolute largest database of BT info i can... i'm shooting for a "little or no surprises" build. (hahaha im not expecting it to happen though)

I had zero problems with my GTRS install...make sure you put the copper o-rings on the coolant feed/return lines and dont overtighten the oil feed line. I had to slighthly clock (rotate) my turbo to match my racetec fmic piping. Other than that it was easy.

[starfriend]

jcs4, i got a racetec IC myself, and i've heard that theres a outlet on the turbo to the N95 missing on the GTRS, so you have to make a bend for it on the IC, did you experience any of this or was it like 100% bolt on?

[A4ringedONE8T]

Glad you got the parts!! Greentops commonly have idle issues due to their spray pattern, I would highly suggest Genesis 430's [up]

[jcs4]

jcs4, i got a racetec IC myself, and i've heard that theres a outlet on the turbo to the N95 missing on the GTRS, so you have to make a bend for it on the IC, did you experience any of this or was it like 100% bolt on?

No problems with the racetec mating to the stock ko3, ko4 or GTRS (I've had all three) The ractec i have is the newer versions that have a 2-piece turbo outlet to intercooler pipe (the old versions are 1 piece) and this makes it easy to match up to either turbo. The GTRS is missing nothing and bolt-ons just like the stock turbo (there is a nipple on the turbo outlet adapter on the GTRS for n75 valve connections).

[starfriend]

Thanks for the information jcs4, also:


i got the two piece aswell, but not installed it yet.. waiting to buy the ATP GTRS kit on ecodetuning for 2699$ (http://www.ecodetuning.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=504)

Is this adapter something that comes with the turbo (if so, i figure its in this package), or did you buy it seperate?

[mtbrider]

I'd definitely go with the Genesis 430's. Also you are going to run the stock maf right?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

When using the ATP manifold you must put the rear bolt (out of the 3 that hold the turbo to the mani) into the manifold before you bolt the mani to the head. It is to far under the head once installed and cant be put in or taken out all the way.

Like mentioned above you will probably have to loosen the bolts (around 6 I think) that hold the housing of the turbo to the center section of the turbo and then spin "clock" the compressor housing (the outlet of the turbo) to the direction it needs to be to aim toward where your intercooler pipe connects.

Be careful with the bolts that hold the wastegate bracket to the housing because they are to short from atp and will strip the housing easily.

[B6Lovin]

Or, you can buy my Delphi 440cc injectors.......


Brand new, never used.

hey man - i'm sorting out what injectors i'm using right now. I PM'd you thinking i wouldn't hear back about another set, but then I did. We'll talk - expect a PM somtime soon.


and to everyone else - thanks for the heads up on the manifold/turbo "clocking".

i've heard the install is pretty straight forward and i'm hoping that it is.. hahaha.

[B6Lovin]

oh yeah - david

what tuning are you running? REVO?
and how much boost?

[dougyfresh]

I've never installed an 'Elim but I'm sure it is not too difficult if you have some mechanical aptitude. That is the beauty of the GTRS Eliminator. It uses the stock turbo location and everything has been designed to be realitively OEM-like. Then again, my system places everything in a new location and the install is not hard. Its just like working on anything within our engine compartment.

What boost are people pushing day in and day out on 93octane with this set-up? How about race fuel? Just curious relative to what I'm running.

[mtbrider]

On my old elim set-up on a day to day basis I was running 23-25psi B9 T7, I was on meth of course

[B6Lovin]

MTB - I'm running the stock MAF for now. How big are the gains from running it in a 3" housing? i have go up to 550cc injectors if i do that right?

I'm shooting for around 300 wheel HP (give or take 15 or 20) on this setup. Seems like it's reasonably doable. anything above 275 will make me very very happy. hahaha

the setup i want right now is nowhere near what my final setup will be... I'm just trying to get the ball rolling on this whole project period. it'll be a lot easier for me to go ahead and get the car running on a basic GTRS setup and then expand from there.

[mtbrider]

^^Ok, just making sure because if you change maf size injectors have to change as well

[jcs4]

Im running 20psi (Boost 6 Timing 5) on 93 octane on the GTRS (revo). I'm also using the Genesis 430's and they were indeed smoother than the greentops at idle.

[dougyfresh]

^^Ok, just making sure because if you change maf size injectors have to change as well

Exactly, in order to keep a/f in check...

[B6Lovin]

huge thanks to everyone - alot the info i've got so far is stuff i haven't found anywhere else (like the whole manifold/turbo deal)

what all is involved with draining and filling the coolant? that's one thing i never got to do on any of my other cars. i had a shop do the turbo on my eclipse (i was 16 and didn't wanna fuck with it hahaha) and i wouldn't dare touch something under the hood on my 944T... shit broke every time i did.

[starfriend]

thats pretty straight forward b6lovin, there's DIY on a4mods :D

but hey, what's this thing with upgrading the MAF to 3" i cant use the same injectors? whot?
I was planing on the turbo kit i pasted above, and a 3" MAF:)

Also, if you feel like im hijacking ur post, let me know so i can STFU ;)
hehe!

[B6Lovin]

no worries - this thread is for me and everyone else putting any BT system on their car (namely the GTRS though)

like i said in the OP - I'm trying to compile all of the wisdom, knowledge, and little tricks needed to make this as easy as possible - from there I'm going to put together a complete writeup that'll cover everything from TIP construction and SAI removal to tweaking the final setup and running meth injection.

[dougyfresh]

thats pretty straight forward b6lovin, there's DIY on a4mods :D

but hey, what's this thing with upgrading the MAF to 3" i cant use the same injectors? whot?
I was planing on the turbo kit i pasted above, and a 3" MAF:)

Also, if you feel like im hijacking ur post, let me know so i can STFU ;)
hehe!

Why would you want to go with a 3inch MAF when the software/system was designed for the stock MAF? What do you think you will gain by doing this?

Just some curiosity questions that I know I'd ask myself in trying to determine what I want in my vehicle.


(I have a 3inch MAF because my system was originally designed for use with one.)

[dougyfresh]

no worries - this thread is for me and everyone else putting any BT system on their car (namely the GTRS though)

like i said in the OP - I'm trying to compile all of the wisdom, knowledge, and little tricks needed to make this as easy as possible - from there I'm going to put together a complete writeup that'll cover everything from TIP construction and SAI removal to tweaking the final setup and running meth injection.

SAI removal is simple. You rip everything out because it is only used on start-up. What does it do? It injects more air in the catalytic converter for better environmentally friendly emissions at cold start-up.

The catch 22 is the ECU checks readiness codes. SAI is one such readiness code. Some tuners are capable of going in and permanently deleting the ECU check for SAI flow. That will result in an SAI readiness code of "OK". Here is a thread about it: http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176852. I know most tuners will only do it for you if you're running their software.

(My SAI is removed and the readiness codes are permanently cleared.)

[B6Lovin]

so far i've only heard of a couple doing this -- neither one being the tuner i was hoping to use (i don't want to name drop and get anyone in trouble lol)

[Redgoat]

You could always try one of these pipes we made

http://podi.ca/winstontemp/blitzpipes/pipe_elim1.jpg

Will this actually fit on the GTRS Elim? I know the turbo sits forward a bit more, and doesnt seem like this would fit at all (due to the fact that theres no room in front of the turbo)

[tuned A4]

Are you thinking of using the Bosch 440cc greentops?

I spoke to Scott at USRT and he told me to skip on them and use the Genesis 430cc units instead as they have a much better spray pattern.

i have them. [up] so far :)

[winston@podi.ca]

Well we took measurements off of a GTRS eliminator kit, had pictures from Shawn to show us clearance and this TIP should fit fine.

That said we actually haven't had a chance to test fit it into a GTRS setup as we don't have one here to use.

Anyone want to be a test subject?

[B6Lovin]

if you'd hook me up with a free one i'd gladly be the guinea pig [:p] hahaha (wishful thinking)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

I'm shooting for around 300 wheel HP (give or take 15 or 20) on this setup. Seems like it's reasonably doable. anything above 275 will make me very very happy. hahaha



300 is definitely doable with race gas or if you run meth injection while on pump gas with settings like 22psi and timing 8 or 9. As far as just running pump gas settings (93 octane) you will be running something like 21psi and timing 5 in any weather below 85. With this setting you are looking at around 260whp range some have made 252 while others have made 265-270whp. I have never done a dyno with pump gas though.

I have done one dyno with 100 octane and made 321whp 304tq at 25psi and timing 9, and did another dyno at another location with like 3 gallons of 93 and 2 gallons of Toluene (it is a paint thinner but has a very high octane of 114 if you didnt know). I used that since I couldn't get race gas in the area but it was close to 100 octane. On that dyno I had problems with boost and couldn't boost over an 18psi hold (quick peak to 20psi then hold at 18psi). Shawn (A4ringedone8t) was actually in my car watching the boost gauge. On this dyno I did 301whp and 300wtq. They were both mustang dynos.

[B6Lovin]

sweet jesus :)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

oh yeah - david

what tuning are you running? REVO?
and how much boost?

Yes Revo, don't run Mika it sucks. Right now I run 18-19psi and timing 7 on just 93 octane. Little lower timing when it gets hot. When I have methanol injection going then I run 21psi and timing 9. My meth hasn't been used for like 2 months though since I have a leak that I haven't fixed and the tank keeps going empty in a day. Then of course with 100 octane or higher it is timing 9 and full boost of 24-25psi.

[B6Lovin]

so you made 321awhp on 100 octane + meth on timing 9 and full boost?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

No meth. Just a full tank of Sunoco GT100 on Boost 9 Timing 9 set with the SPS 3 controller using the N75 valve to control the boost. Weather was about 70 deg. I later had a manual boost controller (the 2nd dyno) and had it in the car for a long time but am now again using the N75 since it has nice smooth linear power with boost controllable unlike a manual boost controller where it goes to about 10psi then from there it jumps to 20 or whatever with no control (kinda on/off feeling).

[B6Lovin]

ohhh gotcha. we'll see if i can top that number towards the begining of the summer.. my initial "numbers" runs are probably gonna come from a g-tec pro lol - so i'll drive a couple other cars with the same g-tec to get a good comparison for everyone. after that i'll try to make time to head to the dyno.

i know that every car handles every situation differently, but in your opinion is it safe to make any tweaks on the sps right off the bat? (base levels for stg 3 are boost 6 timing 2 right? i think i remember hearing that somewhere)

i don't have a laptop and can't log, and won't have the money to buy a sps... but i know that the guys flashing my car would take the time to go ahead and tweak my car while it's in the shop.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

You will have to make sure with the shop who flashes the car to what it is put at. Mine was sent to me on Boost 6, Timing 1 from Eurocode. You have or will have a front mount intercooler right? You should be able to run 21-22psi and timing 5 with no problems at this time of year without logging to be sure. Like I said earlier you can run timing 5 when weather is in the high 80s as long as you have a descent intercooler. Seeing that it is cold in NC right now (below 70) you could probably run 21psi and timing 7 and be ok on pump gas. To be safe if you arent gonna log though I would have the shop put the car at Boost 7 and Timing 5. The Boost setting with the SPS can vary a little with each turbo depending on how the wastegate actuator arm is set (how tight it is) so you really need a boost gauge to know for sure.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

O yeah and after installing the turbo and having everything connected you want to disconnect the coils (pull the plug off each coil) and turn the car over for say 15 seconds 2 or 3 times to be sure the turbo gets primed with oil before you actually fire the car up. You can also pull the fuse for the fuel pump but it isn't needed.

[absolutegtr]

God I cant wait to go GTRS.....

I do not plan on running race gas or meth at all...I want to have it like any car from the factory would be set at: 93 octane....(I say that now, though, LOL)

Good luck!

[B6Lovin]

You will have to make sure with the shop who flashes the car to what it is put at. Mine was sent to me on Boost 6, Timing 1 from Eurocode. You have or will have a front mount intercooler right? You should be able to run 21-22psi and timing 5 with no problems at this time of year without logging to be sure. Like I said earlier you can run timing 5 when weather is in the high 80s as long as you have a descent intercooler. Seeing that it is cold in NC right now (below 70) you could probably run 21psi and timing 7 and be ok on pump gas. To be safe if you arent gonna log though I would have the shop put the car at Boost 7 and Timing 5. The Boost setting with the SPS can vary a little with each turbo depending on how the wastegate actuator arm is set (how tight it is) so you really need a boost gauge to know for sure.

i gotcha. and yes i have a front mount that's going on relatively soon.
i'll talk to the shop about everything before we actually do it just to make sure.

its actually not above 40 right now hahaha. but yeah, i'll keep all that in mind! thanks.

also - thanks for pointing out the steps for priming. I knew to do it already - but this thread is for common knowledge.. and that would be a really REALLY crappy thing to forget to do.

[dougyfresh]

Going back to the dyno this weekend. I'll let you know next week what my car has on 91, 93 and race fuel.

[A4TUNE]

do you have any pics of your setup from the engine bay dougyfresh?

[dougyfresh]

do you have any pics of your setup from the engine bay dougyfresh?

Once it gets warm out I'll fab up a heatshield. With freezing and sub-freezing temperatures its not worth it right now [:D] Details of the setup are here (http://www.audigeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=2675.0)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2311/2186905342_6170540266.jpg

[B6Lovin]

mm i like.

can you not put your engine cover back on because of the TIP? or are you just leaving it off for simplicity's sake?

[B6Lovin]

another question -- can this turbo outflow the AMB head at any settings?

i wouldn't think so... but i'm trying to plan for the future. i want to absolutely rag this setup to it's very end and extract every pony it's got before i go any bigger.. so i figure i should ask the questions now. haha

[starfriend]

Why would you want to go with a 3inch MAF when the software/system was designed for the stock MAF? What do you think you will gain by doing this?

Just some curiosity questions that I know I'd ask myself in trying to determine what I want in my vehicle.


(I have a 3inch MAF because my system was originally designed for use with one.)

Why dont you rather tell me what damage it can do? :)

[dougyfresh]

mm i like.

can you not put your engine cover back on because of the TIP? or are you just leaving it off for simplicity's sake?

Engine cover can go back on. The TIP is no where near interfering the engine cover. I've had it off because I've been periodically looking at spark plugs.

[dougyfresh]

another question -- can this turbo outflow the AMB head at any settings?

i wouldn't think so... but i'm trying to plan for the future. i want to absolutely rag this setup to it's very end and extract every pony it's got before i go any bigger.. so i figure i should ask the questions now. haha

I don't think so. Its just as big as any of the other kits (APR 3+ also uses a GT28RS). Its good up to 30psi and I'm only at 22psi. Once my block is built (some day not quite soon) we'll crank up the boost.

[B6Lovin]

sounds good to me.


and i figured it was something along those lines for the engine cover. haha

[B6Lovin]

well - i was going to start poking around on my car today and planning out how i'd make the intercooler pipes work.. but i ran into a slight problem

http://a775.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/34/l_6575824ef47a1d8eaa0be1cf82a03126.jpg

i kinda couldn't feel my fingers... hahaha
guess i'll have to wait till it warms up

[a4darkness]

[** tracks thread **]

Still debating on my future setup. Figure I can learn a thing or two by following along here.

[starfriend]

anyone? what damage will it do to run a 3"MAF, on a GTRS Revo?
Great post :)

[B6Lovin]

nothing if you have the proper injectors and software from what i gather...

i'm still kinda foggy on whether REVO makes a file to work with a 3" MAF/550cc injectors... but from what I've seen the APR kit which uses that setup isn't running much faster (and in some cases slower) than the standard REVO GTRS flash... which is the stock MAF and 440 or 430cc injectors.. granted - that's 1/4 runs, and driver error (or lack thereof) has a lot to do with that. I've never seen back to back dyno runs with an APR 3+ and a REVO GTRS.

that would be interesting to see though.

There needs to be a g2g with fun runs on a dyno so that we can see how the different setups stack up against each other on the same dyno, with the same conditions, etc.

[B6Lovin]

big thanks to clint -- i got all my intercooler stuff in today (and there is A LOT of it hahaha)

just gotta wait on my new core to get here (ebay ftw) and then that's another item off the list...

now i just need a clutch and the turbo! [:)] im getting so excited! hahaha

[Papachristou]

what clutch did u decide on? southbend is resurfacing my flywheel today..

ecode has dyno'ed two of APRs 3+ kits to 310 and 320 AWHP

[dougyfresh]

ecode has dyno'ed two of APRs 3+ kits to 310 and 320 AWHP

what fuel?

[Papachristou]

Hmm that i dont know... that could be how they got higher numbers

[B6Lovin]

what clutch did u decide on? southbend is resurfacing my flywheel today..

ecode has dyno'ed two of APRs 3+ kits to 310 and 320 AWHP

i think I'm going with southbend. we'll see, i'm exploring a few different options - but i don't want to get anybody's hopes up about anything until i know for sure. I'm working with a shop that's done several custom turbo builds and just recently finished ANOTHER turbo r32 and a GT3076 B5... they think that there's a few different routes that i could go and save some money (I'm more skeptical) but it's something that we're going to talk more about in the coming days.

[mike-2ptzero]

Interested in a ER fmic? I need to place a order for some ER fmic and just need 1 more person buying a B6 kit to get my prices down. So basicly I would be giving a nice size discount to the person/people willing to buy the kit. If anyone is interested please PM me.

[AudiA4_20T]

hey man you should do a full setup and throw rods in your motor first. Seriously the actual build on just rods isnt that hard and you can run as much power as u want

[B6Lovin]

if i had the money to do that i would.

if i stay below 350 i should be ok right? i always thought that the valves were the weakest link in our motors - not the rods.

[mike-2ptzero]

if i had the money to do that i would.

if i stay below 350 i should be ok right? i always thought that the valves were the weakest link in our motors - not the rods.

Why would the valves be the weakest link? Are they the same valves used in the B5 because I was making 500+whp on stock valves and stock valve springs.

[AudiA4_20T]

big thanks to clint -- i got all my intercooler stuff in today (and there is A LOT of it hahaha)

just gotta wait on my new core to get here (ebay ftw) and then that's another item off the list...

now i just need a clutch and the turbo! [:)] im getting so excited! hahaha

glad you liked the IC stuff, I could hardly fit it in that box, was it packaged enough? Nothing was budging

[B6Lovin]

yeah - it all came in just fine! got a bigger core in the mail about a day later, rest of my TIP should be in soon, and injectors to follow shortly after that (thanks doug!)

i do hate that ive got so much of what i need... but the last two things still cost more than the entire rest of the project combined lol.

and to mike - i've heard that the b6 exhaust valves separate and you end up with pieces of valve going on a field trip throughout your head. (they're 2 piece POS's from what i've read) i have no idea if that's the same as the b5 or not, and maybe it was just a fluke for the couple b6's it happened in - point is, when it does eventually get done.... EVERYTHING will be reinforced. might as well only do it once, ya know?

[dougyfresh]

anyone? what damage will it do to run a 3"MAF, on a GTRS Revo?
Great post :)

Here is some info I learned this past weekend. If you feel my comments are incorrect please correct me. This has nothing to do with REVO in particular, just some info I learned on how our ECM and engine system works.....

Taking the 1.8T MAF sensor and inserting it into a 3inch MAF housing may seem pretty straightforward. However, you are now metering a significantly higher amount of air than stock. You'll most likely run into two issues.
1) Maxing out the 1.8T MAF sensor. There is the possibility the sensor will be operating at its peak limits and this isn't safe for engine operations in a wide array of climates.
2) Maxing out your fuel injectors (assuming you have not changed them). The ECM will see the increase in metered flow and try to combat that by adding more fuel. If you're fairly close to maxing out your injectors without the 3inch MAF housing then there isn't much room to add more fuel. Not enough fuel to meet the ECM's request and you now have lean conditions... Lean conditions are your worst enemy.

It would be easy to just add more fuel if we had a fuel pressure regulator inline, however our fuel pressure regulator is fixed and located with the fuel pump in the tank. Hence why going to larger injectors to meter the fuel flow is required on a B6 chassis.

Most of the issues you'll be faced with (even if you increase your fuel injector size) will be cold start-ups, start-ups in general, idle itself and off idle accelerations. Fixing these issues is more complex than just making some changes in Lemmiwinks. It requires detailed adjustments to the tune itself.

Take a 3inch MAF housing and a different MAF sensor that can adequately account for the increase in air flow. Each MAF sensor has different maps and each one behaves differently. The base software code (tune) is developed with a specific MAF sensor and housing size in mind. Making changes to that without significant changes to the tune will result in poor engine operation.









I guess what I'm trying to say is that just adding a larger MAF housing and trying to make minor adjustments to the software via Lemmiwinks, or other, won't get you 100% of the way there to a properly running car. I know Shawn went to a 3inch MAF housing but he's running REVO software (and I need to go read through is experiences now that I've had a few of my own to compare to). I think Chris is also MAF-less with REVO software.

That brings me to REVO software..... You may not run into the issues I've described if running REVO software. I say that because I believe REVO software can be used in conjunction with no MAF. If so, then what I just said is thrown out the window. This is where I'd like someone with REVO experience to chime in...

[I'm actually curious to know REVO is able tune without a MAF. Albeit, I might never know since that is proprietary to REVO themselves...]

[starfriend]

thanks doug, for a very informative post. i Really appreciate it!

Hope someone can answer the question regarding the MAF and revo too :)
hehe!

[mike-2ptzero]

and to mike - i've heard that the b6 exhaust valves separate and you end up with pieces of valve going on a field trip throughout your head. (they're 2 piece POS's from what i've read) i have no idea if that's the same as the b5 or not, and maybe it was just a fluke for the couple b6's it happened in - point is, when it does eventually get done.... EVERYTHING will be reinforced. might as well only do it once, ya know?

Sounds like the same valves we have in the B5 which are sodium filled to help reduce heat. Never heard of any coming apart on the B5's though.

[winston@podi.ca]

I'm running the REVO BT file with the Genesis 430cc injectors and I keep maxing out my stock MAF.

I haven't tried disconnecting the MAF to see hwo the car is going to react but I do suspect the blasting as much air as I am past the stock MAF, 3" housing or not, is causing some weird issues.

Right now if I hammer the car when doing some VAG logging there are times when the boost drops from 20psi to 10psi and hold steady and I can't get it past 10psi afterwards.

Not sure if it is the N75 that is freaking out but I have a Greddy Profec coming to hopefully take care of the boost control.

[AudiA4_20T]

Here is some info I learned this past weekend. If you feel my comments are incorrect please correct me. This has nothing to do with REVO in particular, just some info I learned on how our ECM and engine system works.....

Taking the 1.8T MAF sensor and inserting it into a 3inch MAF housing may seem pretty straightforward. However, you are now metering a significantly higher amount of air than stock. You'll most likely run into two issues.
1) Maxing out the 1.8T MAF sensor. There is the possibility the sensor will be operating at its peak limits and this isn't safe for engine operations in a wide array of climates.
2) Maxing out your fuel injectors (assuming you have not changed them). The ECM will see the increase in metered flow and try to combat that by adding more fuel. If you're fairly close to maxing out your injectors without the 3inch MAF housing then there isn't much room to add more fuel. Not enough fuel to meet the ECM's request and you now have lean conditions... Lean conditions are your worst enemy.

It would be easy to just add more fuel if we had a fuel pressure regulator inline, however our fuel pressure regulator is fixed and located with the fuel pump in the tank. Hence why going to larger injectors to meter the fuel flow is required on a B6 chassis.

Most of the issues you'll be faced with (even if you increase your fuel injector size) will be cold start-ups, start-ups in general, idle itself and off idle accelerations. Fixing these issues is more complex than just making some changes in Lemmiwinks. It requires detailed adjustments to the tune itself.

Take a 3inch MAF housing and a different MAF sensor that can adequately account for the increase in air flow. Each MAF sensor has different maps and each one behaves differently. The base software code (tune) is developed with a specific MAF sensor and housing size in mind. Making changes to that without significant changes to the tune will result in poor engine operation.









I guess what I'm trying to say is that just adding a larger MAF housing and trying to make minor adjustments to the software via Lemmiwinks, or other, won't get you 100% of the way there to a properly running car. I know Shawn went to a 3inch MAF housing but he's running REVO software (and I need to go read through is experiences now that I've had a few of my own to compare to). I think Chris is also MAF-less with REVO software.

That brings me to REVO software..... You may not run into the issues I've described if running REVO software. I say that because I believe REVO software can be used in conjunction with no MAF. If so, then what I just said is thrown out the window. This is where I'd like someone with REVO experience to chime in...

[I'm actually curious to know REVO is able tune without a MAF. Albeit, I might never know since that is proprietary to REVO themselves...]

Hey Doug I could be wrong also but I thought Mark said that your not maxing out the MAF sensor at all, but rather the opposite. Since the housing is so much bigger, the sensor is reading a ton less, which is why a new tune is usually needed to compensate. I could be totally wrong tho

[mike-2ptzero]

I'm running the REVO BT file with the Genesis 430cc injectors and I keep maxing out my stock MAF.

I haven't tried disconnecting the MAF to see hwo the car is going to react but I do suspect the blasting as much air as I am past the stock MAF, 3" housing or not, is causing some weird issues.

Right now if I hammer the car when doing some VAG logging there are times when the boost drops from 20psi to 10psi and hold steady and I can't get it past 10psi afterwards.

Not sure if it is the N75 that is freaking out but I have a Greddy Profec coming to hopefully take care of the boost control.

ECU might be closing the throttle plate because the maf is maxing out. This will cause the boost to drop since the vacuum from the cylinders is decreasing your boost reading.

If you throw in the 3" maf you will need to decrease your timing using the revo controller or lemmiwinks because the larger maf will cause the ecu to run more adv timing.

[winston@podi.ca]

With the new injectors on place the car idles much, much smoother and the software seems to be responding well but when I VAG the car the long term fuel trim shows +12% so I adjusted it with Lemmiwinks.

I let the car adapt for a couple of days and then did some logs with REVO settings at B8,T4,F9 and the timing correction was in the 8-10 range at high RPM.

I adjusted the timing to 3 and the correction dropped a bit to a high of 9.

I am running 94 octane so how much timing do I need to decrease with this file?

[GTMRS4]

I'm running a 3" MAF housing with 550cc injectors boost and hold at 23lbs

[winston@podi.ca]

Stock MAF or aftermarket unit?

I'm tempted to swap in this spare MAF I have to see if anything changes. But isn't a stock MAF a stock MAF?

Or do strange things happen then they are faulty?

[mtbrider]

I'm running a 3" MAF housing with 550cc injectors boost and hold at 23lbs

Apr Stage 3+, correct?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

The stock MAF is easily "maxed out" at 229.44 g/s with the GTRS turbo (you don't need anything bigger). It doesn't do jack when it happens. It is maxed out just at or just after 5000rpm on my car.

[B6Lovin]

so wait... maxing out the stock sensor doesn't affect performance at all?

can anyone clarify if revo can or cannot run with the MAF unplugged? any downsides to that?

i thought chris had his unplugged for awhile.. and he's running revo isn't he?

[B6Lovin]

bump - need to know whether i need to raise some extra cash for a bigger MAF and ANOTHER set of injectors... lol.

[A4natomical]

being me, i wouldnt want to push my motor too hard being on stock internals. IMO the gtrs w/ 440s or whatev. is enough.

[B6Lovin]

didn't recognize you with the new handle lol.

i guess if i break my motor it's just justification? (like chris hydro-locking his)

really though - i KNOW that this setup is capable of a low 12 run. (sub 12.5) i've seen cars with way less potential do much better... it's just a matter of being at the track on the right day with the right setup. i'll do my first runs on the initial setup and plan accordingly. [:)] don't tell david, but i intend to break his "fastest owner driven b6 1/4" time. hahaha

and i'm not letting anyone convince me that it's not possible... Look at what JJ has done on just a k04. I'm not gonna gut my car (or even come close to thinking about it) ... but i know i can do it.

p.s. - anyone know how reliable a g-tec is for 1/4 times? i've got a place and a friend who has one. just wanna do some fun runs while my car is still stock (ecu/fueling-wise) to see what i can crank out of it. hahaha

[mike-2ptzero]

and i'm not letting anyone convince me that it's not possible... Look at what JJ has done on just a k04.



Just a K04? That K04 runs a wheel that is the same size as your BT which is exactly why he makes just as much power, plus I bet he paid twice as much for that special K04 then a GT28 goes for.

[B6Lovin]

we all know mike's (JJ, not you... well.. you too) turbo is special.
point is im sure it can be done.

thing is - everyone who's running a 3" MAF and 550cc injectors doesn't seem to be showing much of a gain if any... yet people still talk about it like it's an upgrade?
i guess i just need some cold hard info on that subject, but i have no way to test/gather information for myself.

[dougyfresh]

If I were you I'd just get the whole GTRS Elim set up and running before you go messing with different sized MAF housings. You're already partway there in getting the intake/fueling side of the Eliminator system done.


Check your PM for the tracking #. I shipped the injectors out today for you.

[B6Lovin]

i do plan to get just the basic setup on and running - but i'm not keeping it basic for long.

the idea is to get something solid and decently quick... and then go from there. i want to know exactly how far this setup can be pushed for my self before i make any decisions about going BAT or 2.0

i have a feeling that i'll end up with a 2.0 eventually, but (for now) my curious side isn't getting the best of me... hahaha

[mike-2ptzero]

i do plan to get just the basic setup on and running - but i'm not keeping it basic for long.

the idea is to get something solid and decently quick... and then go from there. i want to know exactly how far this setup can be pushed for my self before i make any decisions about going BAT or 2.0

i have a feeling that i'll end up with a 2.0 eventually, but (for now) my curious side isn't getting the best of me... hahaha

Just make sure you buy something that can grow with you other wise you will just end up having to sell the whole thing and start all over again. With most of the setups using a GT28 they all use a T25 flange, this means the largest you go go is a GT3071r with a T25 flange. If you want to go beyond that you will have to sell all of it and start from scratch again. So this is something you really have to think about before diving in by just buying something quick.

[B6Lovin]

very true...

from setup to setup though all that needs to be replaced would really be the manifold (only once though, going from stock style to T25) the turbo, and maybe injectors depending on what i'm doing. right?

and why do i get the feeling that you're trying to urge me to skip BT and go to BAT... hahaha

[A4 TSCHUSS]

can anyone clarify if revo can or cannot run with the MAF unplugged? any downsides to that?

i thought chris had his unplugged for awhile.. and he's running revo isn't he?

People have said the MAF doesn't do anything and you should be able to run without it, but I have also been told the GTRS file was made to use the MAF. I tried running my car with the MAF unplugged and it ran like absolute garbage. It would not idle for shit and when I drove down the road it loaded up big time then finally would take off. Others have said they ran it with it unplugged so I don't understand why my car would not allow it. And also when your MAF goes bad your car will not run, so I need an explanation to why this is so if the MAF isn't needed for the Revo software.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

really though - i KNOW that this setup is capable of a low 12 run. (sub 12.5) i've seen cars with way less potential do much better... it's just a matter of being at the track on the right day with the right setup. i'll do my first runs on the initial setup and plan accordingly. [:)] don't tell david, but i intend to break his "fastest owner driven b6 1/4" time. hahaha

and i'm not letting anyone convince me that it's not possible... Look at what JJ has done on just a k04. I'm not gonna gut my car (or even come close to thinking about it) ... but i know i can do it.



Good luck that is all im gonna say because you are gonna need it. I can almost promise you that you will never see a 12.5 with the GTRS and 1.8t in your A4. Maybe in a perfect world (excellent traction due to great track prep, a fast track, excellent weather [cold], pefect running car, excellent driving and a absolute perfect [the best] launch.

And btw the fastest time is actually a 12.63 with the GTRS but it was Mike (Mike2ptzero) driving someone elses car that is no longer a member here (he now has a 335i). I can't remember but im pretty sure the car never ran another 12.6 after that run they were all high 12.7s and above.

That run and my run were both done with the passenger and rear seats removed as well as the spare tire. Then the other car had light weight 17 racing rims on the car and it was a 6 speed (mine is a 5 speed)

The member's name is Audi Skate Snow if you want to look up some old posts.

His setup:

GTRS, Ecode front mount, Ecode test pipe, South Bend OFE SS clutch that was tweaked by request of Eurocode so it was stiffer (more clamping) than everyone elses. Thermal R&D Race exhaust, Tein SS coilovers, 6 speed, 17" lighweight rims, VP MS109 race fuel and Mike Hood driving (Mike is known in California to be a good drag racer in the Euro scene).

The time was a 12.63 @108mph with a 1.71 60ft

My setup:

GTRS, Ecode front mount, Ecode test pipe, Sout Bend OFE SS clutch, Neuspeed exhaust, stock sport suspension, 5 speed, 19" Maya STM wheels 8.5" front 9.5" rear, VP 103 race gas, Myself driving [:D].

My time was a 12.75 @108mph with a 1.66 60ft (the best 60ft pulled to date with a B6 A4).

Another eliminator car (a 71r though insted of GTRS) is Greg's (400hpa4) aka (Greg@DTH) which has a best of 12.85@107mph

So yeah like I said GOOD LUCK with that 12.5 [:p]

[dougyfresh]

I understand Daniel. I've been planning my system for a while and got lucky when Mark@ASP came along looking for some help. Since I've got a full GT28RS I've got some room to grow before a BAT. Also have the manifold and software to go BAT too if I wanted [up].

I also just picked up a complete 1.8T as a spare engine to build on the side [:D].

[dougyfresh]

thanks doug, for a very informative post. i Really appreciate it!

Hope someone can answer the question regarding the MAF and revo too :)
hehe!

Been doing some digging...

http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2228984&posted=1#post2228984

So far I have only found that Winston has tried a 3inch MAF housing and 440/430 injectors. He needed to add fuel as suspected because of the increase in metered air. Hence the need to bump up to 550s with a REVO file and a 3inch MAF housing.


Now, we just need a back-to-back dyno comparison of the benefits going to a larger MAF housing with a REVO file to prove its worth it for you guys on a GTRS........

[mike-2ptzero]

very true...

from setup to setup though all that needs to be replaced would really be the manifold (only once though, going from stock style to T25) the turbo, and maybe injectors depending on what i'm doing. right?

and why do i get the feeling that you're trying to urge me to skip BT and go to BAT... hahaha

Not trying to get you to skip the BT, just telling you that if you go BT you will then have to change out the manifold a 2nd time to go BAT since those turbos use a T3 flange not a T25. So basicly you would go from stock, to T25 and then again to T3. Later this year I plan on coming out with a T4 flanged Twin Scroll setup for the A4 and if you then end up going with that you will have to change once again.[:D]


Injectors would be one of the things you would have to change, you would also have to change your DP because one that is designed to work with the BT is not going to line up once you change to another manifold. You will also have to change the Turbo inlet hose/pipe since the GT28's use up to a 3" inlet while the BAT's use a 4" inlet. You will also have to change out the FMIC each time you decided to change turbo or manifold since the FMIC must be matched to the hp the car is making at the time.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Been doing some digging...

http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2228984&posted=1#post2228984


Now, we just need a back-to-back dyno comparison of the benefits going to a larger MAF housing with a REVO file to prove its worth it for you guys on a GTRS........

It isn't worth it because the GTRS can't flow enough. It has a tiny turbo flange (same size as the stock K03 turbo) and a small housing.

[B6Lovin]

Good luck that is all im gonna say because you are gonna need it. I can almost promise you that you will never see a 12.5 with the GTRS and 1.8t in your A4. Maybe in a perfect world (excellent traction due to great track prep, a fast track, excellent weather [cold], pefect running car, excellent driving and a absolute perfect [the best] launch.

And btw the fastest time is actually a 12.63 with the GTRS but it was Mike (Mike2ptzero) driving someone elses car that is no longer a member here (he now has a 335i). I can't remember but im pretty sure the car never ran another 12.6 after that run they were all high 12.7s and above.

That run and my run were both done with the passenger and rear seats removed as well as the spare tire. Then the other car had light weight 17 racing rims on the car and it was a 6 speed (mine is a 5 speed)

The member's name is Audi Skate Snow if you want to look up some old posts.

His setup:

GTRS, Ecode front mount, Ecode test pipe, South Bend OFE SS clutch that was tweaked by request of Eurocode so it was stiffer (more clamping) than everyone elses. Thermal R&D Race exhaust, Tein SS coilovers, 6 speed, 17" lighweight rims, VP MS109 race fuel and Mike Hood driving (Mike is known in California to be a good drag racer in the Euro scene).

The time was a 12.63 @108mph with a 1.71 60ft

My setup:

GTRS, Ecode front mount, Ecode test pipe, Sout Bend OFE SS clutch, Neuspeed exhaust, stock sport suspension, 5 speed, 19" Maya STM wheels 8.5" front 9.5" rear, VP 103 race gas, Myself driving [:D].

My time was a 12.75 @108mph with a 1.66 60ft (the best 60ft pulled to date with a B6 A4).

Another eliminator car (a 71r though insted of GTRS) is Greg's (400hpa4) aka (Greg@DTH) which has a best of 12.85@107mph

So yeah like I said GOOD LUCK with that 12.5 [:p]

all good things to know, but i won't be discouraged. I'll push a GTRS that far... you'll see, YOU'LL ALL SEE
/insane moment.

really though, i plan to redefine the limits of an eliminator car. I'm still not sure how i'm gonna do that. but it'll happen.

lots of good "outside the box" ideas in my thinker. we'll see how many make it out of my head and under my hood.

[B6Lovin]

Later this year I plan on coming out with a T4 flanged Twin Scroll setup for the A4 and if you then end up going with that you will have to change once again.[:D]




that would answer every prayer i've ever had.

twin scroll seems to be the answer to BAT and faster spool. and i've wondered for SO LONG why nobody does it on our cars.

[B6Lovin]

got my injectors in today :) (thank you doug!)

question - i need spacers for these right? (delphi 440's)

[A4 TSCHUSS]

all good things to know, but i won't be discouraged. I'll push a GTRS that far... you'll see, YOU'LL ALL SEE
/insane moment.

really though, i plan to redefine the limits of an eliminator car. I'm still not sure how i'm gonna do that. but it'll happen.

lots of good "outside the box" ideas in my thinker. we'll see how many make it out of my head and under my hood.

Im curious to know what you think you are gonna do different [confused] more boost? well after 24-25psi (which is what many of us have ran) you are just hurting yourself since it will be blowing hot air since the turbo can't flow enough (to small). More timing? Well we have done that to adding several degrees advance with Lemmiwinks while running 116 octane leaded fuel and/or methanol injection. Build the head to run higher rpm and port to flow better? Well you are wasting your time since the GTRS has peaked at below 7000rpm so more rpm is doing no good, the porting the head part, well back to the it can't flow enough part since it is to small so once again a waste.

What is left? Well we had someone build a 2.0 with ported head, cams etc and run his GTRS on it, he made like 20whp more than my dyno run. Is that worth it? In my opinion hell no.

So please tell us your plans!

[winston@podi.ca]

Been doing some digging...

http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2228984&posted=1#post2228984

So far I have only found that Winston has tried a 3inch MAF housing and 440/430 injectors. He needed to add fuel as suspected because of the increase in metered air. Hence the need to bump up to 550s with a REVO file and a 3inch MAF housing.


Now, we just need a back-to-back dyno comparison of the benefits going to a larger MAF housing with a REVO file to prove its worth it for you guys on a GTRS........

Well if there was a way I could put in a smaller MAF housing when I do the dyno runs I'll do the tests as I have the 430cc and 550cc injectors.

[B6Lovin]

Im curious to know what you think you are gonna do different [confused] more boost? well after 24-25psi (which is what many of us have ran) you are just hurting yourself since it will be blowing hot air since the turbo can't flow enough (to small). More timing? Well we have done that to adding several degrees advance with Lemmiwinks while running 116 octane leaded fuel and/or methanol injection. Build the head to run higher rpm and port to flow better? Well you are wasting your time since the GTRS has peaked at below 7000rpm so more rpm is doing no good, the porting the head part, well back to the it can't flow enough part since it is to small so once again a waste.

What is left? Well we had someone build a 2.0 with ported head, cams etc and run his GTRS on it, he made like 20whp more than my dyno run. Is that worth it? In my opinion hell no.

So please tell us your plans!

thoser are all good and painfully valid points.

it's really just a goal to push myself and try to figure out what can be done differently. IMO, there's always room for improvement - and sometimes it's as simple as doing the same thing but in a slightly different way. i really don't have a specific plan of HOW i'm going to get a 12.5 on a GTRS... i guess something in my head just says to go for broke on this one. eventually i'll end up with a bigger turbo and all the goodies, but i'm on a limited budget for now - and i want to wait till ive got a much larger disposable income before i do something like that.

i've become painfully aware of the ways in which the GTRS is lacking when compared to other turbos, and that it is very much a "stoplight to stoplight" street-driven kind of power. making that power stretch to it's limits on a 1/4 mile track is my real final goal - but setting a number for myself to chase after helps me to really examine what i can do (short of pulling a JJ) to reach that goal.

i also realized before i even bought my car that it was going to be a challenge to make it fast. (in any sense of the word) our cars ARE good platforms, they're just not as cheap or easily made into a complete speed demon. they ARE however, one of the only tuner-platform type cars that i've ever seen which is both reliable and still a very pleasing car inside and out once you reach that level of performance you're after.

like i said - i promise to get there. how i'll do it - not sure yet. when it'll happen - also not sure. i'll keep you posted though [cool] (the wheels are turning... we'll see what happens over the coming months)

[B6Lovin]

well here's a quick shot of the things sitting in my room in Boone - got a few more goodies back at home [;)] there is much cutting, fitting, welding, etc to be done - but it'll all get there. a HUGE thank you to all of you that have helped me along the way thus far. the rest of my TIP is on order with ATP, and all my misc. bits and pieces for install (oil, coolant, cp's, plugs, etc) are getting ordered soon.

manifold, turbo, clutch, software soon to follow! yay for tax returns!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/DSC01047.jpg

btw - the random trashbag is FULL of clamps and couplers... i mean FULL

[B6Lovin]

another random question - how much coolant should i pick up? when replacing the turbo does ALL the coolant drain? or only part?

[BiTurboLovin]

Turbo's are cooled by engine oil, aren't they? I wasn't aware turbo's had coolant lines.

[A4natomical]

ya the bt has coolant lines. my coolant went down about half of one of those jugs from the dealership (not sure how much off the bat) but if you get a jug of g12 it'll be enough. after you refill it to the top, let the car run for a while, because it will drop down A LOT (im sure you know) after it refills all the empty coolant lines, etc. so dont fill and drive after youre done.

i cant wait to see your reacton to your new setup[up][up]

[B6Lovin]

me neither! [:D] and that guy above you gets the oh-so-coveted job of helping me out with this whole thing. hahahaha.

thanks for the coolant info.

bump for my question about fuel rail spacers with delphi 440's

[AudiA4_20T]

well here's a quick shot of the things sitting in my room in Boone - got a few more goodies back at home [;)] there is much cutting, fitting, welding, etc to be done - but it'll all get there. a HUGE thank you to all of you that have helped me along the way thus far. the rest of my TIP is on order with ATP, and all my misc. bits and pieces for install (oil, coolant, cp's, plugs, etc) are getting ordered soon.

manifold, turbo, clutch, software soon to follow! yay for tax returns!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/heelsrock3/DSC01047.jpg

btw - the random trashbag is FULL of clamps and couplers... i mean FULL

ooo that stuff looks familiar! Anyway, my friend might have you beat on cheapness of everything. Hes gonna be about $3900 with EVERYTHING...

[B6Lovin]

new or used turbo? the turbo and clutch are the only things im getting new.

[B6Lovin]

you guys guessed it -- another question!

my buddy has a spare MBC sitting around from his 240sx - and i was wondering if it'll matter that it's ball and spring as opposed to a bleed valve. what's everyone else running who has a MBC? (it's a perrin valve if you were wondering - came off his suby, went on his 240, and has been sitting in a drawer since.)

and just so that it's in a more current post -- do i need the fuel rail spacers on delphi 440's?

[B6Lovin]

bump

[Papachristou]

if your clutch, FMIC and turbo arent installed, you are a long long ways from being 75% done

[B6Lovin]

by done i mean i've got 75% of what i need - including a percentage of the money i need for the rest of the setup - install is the least of my worries, it's my first time on the A4, but not my first time doing something like this in general. it's just piecing together the kit.

[BiTurboLovin]

Plus he's got my help!

[Papachristou]

he will need it!

[mike-2ptzero]

that would answer every prayer i've ever had.

twin scroll seems to be the answer to BAT and faster spool. and i've wondered for SO LONG why nobody does it on our cars.



Yeah along with a few other peoples prayers. Sorry I haven't been able to post for a few days, I was put on a "time out". [;)]


Im curious to know what you think you are gonna do different [confused] more boost? well after 24-25psi (which is what many of us have ran) you are just hurting yourself since it will be blowing hot air since the turbo can't flow enough (to small). More timing? Well we have done that to adding several degrees advance with Lemmiwinks while running 116 octane leaded fuel and/or methanol injection. Build the head to run higher rpm and port to flow better? Well you are wasting your time since the GTRS has peaked at below 7000rpm so more rpm is doing no good, the porting the head part, well back to the it can't flow enough part since it is to small so once again a waste.

What is left? Well we had someone build a 2.0 with ported head, cams etc and run his GTRS on it, he made like 20whp more than my dyno run. Is that worth it? In my opinion hell no.

So please tell us your plans!

Oh so true. This is because the GTrs is already running at max flow on the 1.8t, only thing that is gained by running it on a larger displacemnt engine is a earlier and longer sustained tq band, but there will be very little gain in peak hp. Basicly whats going to happen on a 2 liter is that the turbo is going to act like a K04 when trying to push it at 25psi, it will just peak and taper off as the rpms get closer to redline. This was seen on a T28 running on a B5 with a built 1.9-2.0 liter, running 19psi the peak hp was at 5500 rpms and it dropped quickly from there.

[dougyfresh]

Good to hear you got the injectors!

The GT28RS and GTRS use both oil and engine coolant to cool the turbo.

I would pick up a 2L bottle of Pentosin coolant or a gallon of G12 from your dealer. If you don't use all of it you can hold onto it for future use. When refilling the system there is a bleed screw on the line above the intake. You'll need to crack this open to relieve some of the air in the line. Other than that, filling the system is the same as just about any other vehicle.

[dougyfresh]

another thing....

Do a compression and leak-down test prior to installing any of your GTRS hardware. I would advise against installing the GTRS if your engine isn't sound. Trust me......

[GTMRS4]

Mike - I'm interested in the manifold thinking of doing a GT3076 with the T2 adapter (i think) for my APR Mani -

[AudiA4_20T]

Mike - I'm interested in the manifold thinking of doing a GT3076 with the T2 adapter (i think) for my APR Mani -

Arnold@PagParts would be the one to talk to about that

[B6Lovin]

another thing....

Do a compression and leak-down test prior to installing any of your GTRS hardware. I would advise against installing the GTRS if your engine isn't sound. Trust me......

good advice lol. that would SUCK to crank boost and my engine not be ready for it... it seems to be running really well... but you never know i guess. (atleast without checking for sure.)

[B6Lovin]

time to bump the ol' thread for a question guys -- what plugs are people running on BT cars? i'd prefer to stick with a bosch or ngk plug..

from what i've heard some of the 1+ guys had problems with their plugs being too hot and causing problems so they switched to bosch fr5dtc and the like..

think that'd be a good option for my car too? i'm not real up on spark plug technology.. i've never really considered running a different plug in a car before (never needed to).

so what's the best for my setup? copper, iridium, platinum? single electrode? tri electrode? thanks in advance!

[dougyfresh]

Bosch Platinum F5DPOR

[winston@podi.ca]

Blitzkrieg likes the copper tri-electrode Bosch plugs.

I like using the copper NGK BRK7E gapped to 0.030" and I change the plugs every 8000 miles.

[B6Lovin]

i think the copper tri-electrode might be the ones i listed? (i know they're tri electrode and a cooler heat range anyways)

any big difference between the ones doug listed and the brk7e's?

[winston@podi.ca]

I had the ones Doug listed with my K04 but they got thrown out by mistake during my head replacement so I never got a chance to try them out very long.

They are platinum plugs so they don't need to be changed out for a while once installed.

[B6Lovin]

time for a bump with some updates --

ive knocked a few things off my list, and added a couple others

here's some things i plan to pick up in the next couple weeks:
*exhaust manifold/hardware
*turbo/hardware
*oil/filter/etc
*coolant
*REVO Stg. 3
*and a cutout (for fun [:)] lol)

so far i've got:
*turboback exhaust (custom 2.5")
*FMIC (custom)
*TIP (custom 3")
*injectors (delphi 440)
*clutch (AWE stg. 3)
*DV (forge 007)
*hitachi E's (still waiting for them to get here...)
*plugs (Bosch FR5DTC)
*some seafoam (my engine checked out this past weekend, but i want to make ABSOLUTELY SURE its in top shape, i'm at 47k mi.)

anything i left off that list that i need? I plan on getting 034's new intake mani as soon as it's made available.. (Issam, if you're reading this and there's any word on this or you need a guinea pig please PM me, im interested in moving forward with that ASAP) and I'm also in the market for a SPS3 if anyone is selling [:)]

[dougyfresh]

034 Motor Mounts FTW!
2.8L 5spd FTW! Hahaa

Good list.



FYI: Clint rode in a GTRS car this past weekend and said my car snaps you into the seats harder but the GTRS is more linear.



scht. You'll have our car up and running when I take mine down for a month or so....

[B6Lovin]

ooohhh motor mounts = good idea.
idk if i have the $$$ for a new tranny atm, and i REALLY want a 6 speed if i'm going to be going through all that trouble lol.

good to hear about the GTRS, i love a good torque spike as much as the next guy... but i dont wanna blow anything up just yet. we'll get there next year [:)]

and while my car is gonna be up and running... once yours is too, it'll be up and running MUCH faster than mine. hahaha

[mike-2ptzero]

I have a GTRS going into a B5 2001.5 right now that will be running the REVO BT file with 550's. Also have another guy asking about the same setup and he owns a 2001.5 TIP.


Maybe I need to add a GTRS 2001+ package setup on our site.[>_<]


I did just add a SB package (http://www.shop.dthaus.com/product.sc?categoryId=44&productId=70).[:D] Let me know what you guys think about it. Will most likely add a stage 4+ and Stage 5 to it.

[B6Lovin]

do you think i should ditch my 440's and go for the 550's? or just stick it out with the 440's?

i'd really prefer to not have to change injectors again already, but if it's even a slight increase in power I know i'll do it eventually... so i might as well now.

and to make it absolutely clear, the new REVO file which uses 550cc injectors instead of 430/440 runs on the stock MAF sensor and housing, right?

[mike-2ptzero]

do you think i should ditch my 440's and go for the 550's? or just stick it out with the 440's?

i'd really prefer to not have to change injectors again already, but if it's even a slight increase in power I know i'll do it eventually... so i might as well now.

and to make it absolutely clear, the new REVO file which uses 550cc injectors instead of 430/440 runs on the stock MAF sensor and housing, right?

Correct, the 550cc file uses the stock maf sensor/housing.

[B6Lovin]

hmmm.... maybe i'll just run the old file for now, get new injectors later -- and then get reflashed. if it's better, i'll keep it - if not i'll get flashed back and sell the 550's i guess.

[A4Dit]

I hope your not ordering anything from ATP, I just recieved my Velocity adapter and turbo hardware today. The adapter I ordered back in early March and the hardware I ordered 3 1/2 weeks ago. Do your best to avoid them at all costs.

[mike-2ptzero]

I hope your not ordering anything from ATP, I just recieved my Velocity adapter and turbo hardware today. The adapter I ordered back in early March and the hardware I ordered 3 1/2 weeks ago. Do your best to avoid them at all costs.

They cant keep up with the demand on the GTRS kits which is why it takes so much time to get. I ordered one a few weeks ago and was able to get it for my customer, it is being installed right now.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

and a FYI, the companies that sell the ATP GTRS kit don't stock the kit (not that I know of anyway) they all get drop shipped directly from ATP after an order is placed with one of their venders, so you can't avoid ATP by going with another company since ATP themself will be shipping you the kit.

[A4Dit]

I didnt order the turbo, I only ordered a hardware kit for the turbo. Their customer service is garbage, I called numerous times after ordering each item and once was informed that my kit was in transit, (being shipped) and later that my order was never even placed which menat that the first guy I spoke to flat out lied to me. Then he stated that it never got placed because the sales lady was on vacation when I ordered, I said, "Must have been a long vacation, I ordered this stuff 2 1/2 weeks ago". He had no answer for me. I then wondered how a company stays in business when there one sales member goes on vacation and apparently no sales are made?

[A4 TSCHUSS]

unfortunately APR and ASP's kits are twice as expensive so many people opt for the GTRS or 71r eliminator since there arent other kits at the price point, so due to ATP being the only supplier of such a kit they can get away with being a poorly run business and people will deal with it since like I said there isn't another route to go down except for AWE's GT28r but that is also more expensive and is a smaller turbo compared to the GT28RS of APR and ASP and the GTRS which is a GT28RS center section crammed in a machined GT28r compressor housing with a custom cast exhaust housing.

[eg6siR]

unfortunately APR and ASP's kits are twice as expensive so many people opt for the GTRS or 71r eliminator since there arent other kits at the price point, so due to ATP being the only supplier of such a kit they can get away with being a poorly run business and people will deal with it since like I said there isn't another route to go down except for AWE's GT28r but that is also more expensive and is a smaller turbo compared to the GT28RS of APR and ASP and the GTRS which is a GT28RS center section crammed in a machined GT28r compressor housing with a custom cast exhaust housing.


so what your really trying to say is someone needs to come up with a better solution than the ATP manifold.... where can i get the stock style turbo flange? i will start designing/fabricating a tubular manifold, since im about to go BT now anyway! and there is a possibility i could flow bench the manifold for the ultimate flow...

[AudiA4_20T]

so what your really trying to say is someone needs to come up with a better solution than the ATP manifold.... where can i get the stock style turbo flange? i will start designing/fabricating a tubular manifold, since im about to go BT now anyway! and there is a possibility i could flow bench the manifold for the ultimate flow...

are you asking if we have tubular manifolds available?

034 motorsport and Full-Race both make manifolds for our car... the reason ATP is so desired is because of the custom housing

[A4 TSCHUSS]

no, the identical manifold can be bought from 034 motorsport (its not truely understood how they have an identical manfold) we think they bought the old casting since ATP did an updated one which is not supposed to crack.

The GTRS and 71r eliminator turbos have a custom cast turbine housing from ATP which has the stock flange to mate up with a stock manifold or the ATP manifold which is the same stock flange on just a bigger runner log manifold that makes the turbo bolt in the stock location which allows for the stock exhaust and airbox and all that stuff to work so no customizing is needed.

[400HPA4]

What he is saying is just man up and live with the popularity. Some folks get stuff right away and others have to wait, it is just the nature of supply and demand.

ATP is pretty much in the same boat as you as they have to rely on vendors to manufacture the stuff they sell exclusively.

I was very fortunate that when I wanted to switch from the full GT28RS to the 71R Eliminator, I only had to wait about two weeks for everything to show up. I know of others that got their stuff right away though.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

took 2 weeks for me to get mine as well and I got it over 2 years ago.

[A4Dit]

I wouldn't mind the waiting if people told me the truth about wait time once I ordered a part, it's the lieing, and lack of communication these businesses pull that pisses me off. If I have to wait 2 weeks or a month for a part that is fine but dont give me a different story or blame your sales lady who is in Costa Rica for not being there to place the order.

[400HPA4]

Out of curiosity, when you placed the order, were you told you would get the parts right away?

I am not defending ATP by any means, I am just wondering why you fell you were lied to.

[B6Lovin]

i was planning on getting the "hardware only" kit from SPP, since that seems to be the best price so far. but it looks like i get to wait on shipping... oh joy.

anyone know if there's a way/place to get it any cheaper than that? ($1400)

[dougyfresh]

anyone know if there's a way/place to get it any cheaper than that? ($1400)

Used



$1400 is a fair price. The turbo alone costs around $1100 and the remaining hardware will add up quickly.

[B6Lovin]

Used



$1400 is a fair price. The turbo alone costs around $1100 and the remaining hardware will add up quickly.

that's what i figured -- i think it's a fair price too, just wasn't sure if anyone had run across the same "kit" any cheaper than that.

you ever sell your turbo doug?

[dougyfresh]

you ever sell your turbo doug?

Yup. Someone local is buying it. I need to take it out of my car on Sunday for them. Ordered up a GT2871R today [:D]

[B6Lovin]

nice. anyone know exactly what hardware i need for the manifold?

i know i need:
head to mani gasket
mani to turbo gasket
3 bolts/washers to hold on the turbo
13? nuts for the manifold

question is what size for the bolts/washers/nuts, and did i leave anything off?

[B6Lovin]

bump for answers, trying to get everything at a final, shipped price. i wanna be able to click and buy as soon as the semester is over.

[mike-2ptzero]

i was planning on getting the "hardware only" kit from SPP, since that seems to be the best price so far. but it looks like i get to wait on shipping... oh joy.

anyone know if there's a way/place to get it any cheaper than that? ($1400)


$1400 for the GTRS hardware kit? The one I sold to the B5 guy was for $1 less, but he also saved on all of the other stuff he bought from me at the same time.[>_<]

[dougyfresh]

I think you can get away with the mani-head gasket that's on your car and the mani-head nuts for the studs. I'm using the original ones on my engine.

Def want mani-turbo gasket and associated bolts/nuts. Also want a turbo-downpipe gasket and downpipe-cat-back gasket. Isn't all this included in the hardware kit? I would think it is. Ask Mike or Greg.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

the downpipe or testpipe whatever to exhaust gasket isnt and the head to manifold gasket isnt. You get a new turbo to mani gasket and a turbo to testpipe gasket thats it, atleast when I got my kit.

[B6Lovin]

the downpipe or testpipe whatever to exhaust gasket isnt and the head to manifold gasket isnt. You get a new turbo to mani gasket and a turbo to testpipe gasket thats it, atleast when I got my kit.

wait, so the GTRS harware kit comes with a new turbo to mani, and turbo to testpipe?

meaning the only gasket i MIGHT need is mani to head --- which apparently i can reuse, as well as the stock manifold hardware.

so the only things i really NEED to buy separately are the mani to turbo bolts?
anyone know the sizes on that?

[mike-2ptzero]

Picture of the ATP GTRS hardware kit

https://secure.memca.com/ecodetuning/images/products/547_large.jpg

[B6Lovin]

.....so looking at that i guess i dont need anything then.

well that makes me happy [:)] hahaha

[B6Lovin]

doug -- i just had a thought -- are you sure i can use the gasket that's on my car? isn't the ATP manifold supposed to have larger runners?

or do i use the one i have and then grind it down even with the manifold?

[dougyfresh]

doug -- i just had a thought -- are you sure i can use the gasket that's on my car? isn't the ATP manifold supposed to have larger runners?

or do i use the one i have and then grind it down even with the manifold?

That is a good point (I forgot). I'm not sure then. Guess I have a new gasket to match my high-flow exhaust manifold. I do know the studs and nuts are OEM.


That GTRS hardware kit looks slim. I presume those two lines are for coolant? Where's the oil feed & return lines? Or do you reuse the OEM?

[B6Lovin]

That is a good point (I forgot). I'm not sure then. Guess I have a new gasket to match my high-flow exhaust manifold. I do know the studs and nuts are OEM.


That GTRS hardware kit looks slim. I presume those two lines are for coolant? Where's the oil feed & return lines? Or do you reuse the OEM?

that too is a really good question.... I'm not sure what to tell you -- all i know is ATP states that it's everything you need to install it. I thought the line pictured with the banjo fittings was the new oil line, but i could be wrong.

and if i do have to match my gasket to the manifold, i can just do that with my dremel right? i mean, as long as it's smooth and burr-free i should be good right?

[dougyfresh]

Ask David (a4 tschuss) about the lines. He is very knowledgeable about the GTRS kit and should know off the top of his head.

I see no reason for using a dremel as long as there are no burrs. Then again, I have yet to do this myself.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

that picture is misleading unless they have changed the contents of the kit which I doubt because that is the same pic of the kit when I got mine. You wont get a nice looking line with the banjos like in that pic. You will get black hose like in the pic that is like 4' long which you will have to cut to make your feed and return lines for coolant, then some banjos that you have to slide into the hose and hose clamp on and then the coolant feed line you have to use a barb fitting to make the stock hose longer with the supplied black hose (the hose that runs across the front of the engine). I personally just went and bought a longer hose and ran it from the turbo to where it comes from over by the intake manifold so it wasnt 2 pieces fitted together with a barb. You use the stock oil feed and return lines.

And I have reused my mani to head gasket like 3 times and it's fine (after I got a cracked mani and put a new one on, I used it again)

[B6Lovin]

sweet, thanks for the info. good thing to know ahead of time, mighta been kind of pissed lol

[A4natomical]

Just a heads up. Keep an eye on your rubber coolant hoses later on, once the
kit has been installed for a year or so. The rubber tends to become brittle and
crack= coolant leak.[up]

[dougyfresh]

Just a heads up. Keep an eye on your rubber coolant hoses later on, once the
kit has been installed for a year or so. The rubber tends to become brittle and
crack= coolant leak.[up]

braided stainless steel FTW!

[B6Lovin]

Just a heads up. Keep an eye on your rubber coolant hoses later on, once the
kit has been installed for a year or so. The rubber tends to become brittle and
crack= coolant leak.[up]

gracias -- I'm gonna try to compile all the useful bits, tips, tricks, etc into one big FAQ/writeup to keep handy. I know there's a DIY on a4mods, but I'm STILL getting info in this thread that i didn't find anywhere else.

[A4natomical]

braided stainless steel FTW!

ultimately the best route to go, if you have a few extra
sheckles laying around to piece together steal braided lines

[mike-2ptzero]

034 sells a full oil/coolant line kit that uses braided lines but would have to ask them if it works with the Elim or GT28 kits, I know they sell it for the BAT setups. ATP also sells one but I think one of the coolant lines just connects to the stock coolant line that runs in front of the head.


Both of those kits are around $300-$330.

Picture of the 034 line kit that I offer to my BAT customers and is basically the setup that I run on my car.
http://www.034motorsport.com/oscthumbwm/w/450/h/434/q/95/f/jpg/fltr/wmi%7CphpThumb/watermarks/034watermark%7CC%7C20%7C0/hash/6ff2fefbb6b8a7748f5f796ef017e4e9/src/images/HeaderLineKit_Trans18ta.jpg


BTW I ordered a ATP oil/coolant line kit for a customer a few months ago and it still hasn't shipped from ATP. [:(]


ultimately the best route to go, if you have a few extra
sheckles laying around to piece together steal braided lines

Cost goes up pretty quick once you start putting all the parts together. The AN fittings are not cheap.

[B6Lovin]

damn, 300 bucks for coolant/oil lines?

people are running what comes with the kit with no problems, i think i'll give that a go first... if it doesn't work out THEN i'll drop 300 clams on new lines.

[dougyfresh]

034 sells a full oil/coolant line kit that uses braided lines but would have to ask them if it works with the Elim or GT28 kits, I know they sell it for the BAT setups. ATP also sells one but I think one of the coolant lines just connects to the stock coolant line that runs in front of the head.


Both of those kits are around $300-$330.




Cost goes up pretty quick once you start putting all the parts together. The AN fittings are not cheap.

I believe this is what Mike is talking about:
http://www.034motorsport.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=724

The ASP kit comes with stainless steel braided lines [:D]

[B6Lovin]

more shameless plugs in my thread...... oi [:p]

question -- that pesky stock IC pipe that runs across the front of the car....

is that part of the damn structure or something? i'd like to remove it if at all possible, but from looking at it for awhile i dont think it is.

any input on that? (i think i might just cut off the ends to make more room... I'm also going to start cutting weight where i can without having to pull a JJ)

and speaking of him, where the hell is he? i haven't seen any updates on his car in quite some time... just when it was getting good too.

[A4Dit]

I would consider that 034 motorports line kit B6, I just recieved my hardware kit from ATP, keep in mind I already had a turbo so I only needed lines and fittings. The kit ran me $268 with shipping, and like David said the hoses are of low quality rubber. The ATP kit is deceiving, the pic clearly shows one of thoses hoses steelbraided yet that is not what you receive.

[B6Lovin]

hmmm... but that's about a 3rd of a set of new wheels for the track (some nice, light, 16's or 17's are probably in my future - i think i'm becoming a wheel whore hahaha)

speaking of which - anyone know what the stocker 16's weigh? i'm also looking for the weight of some 17" avus'

[B6Lovin]

anyone? weights on stock non-sport 16's, and b5s4 avus (17's) would be nice [:)] (yes i've been searching/googling my ass off)

its a good feeling to know that i'm FINALLY getting towads the end of my list of stuff for this build.... it's been a damn long time coming.

a couple things that i decided would be worth-while add ons were:

a full set of 034 mounts
JHM SS (possibly with the solid linkage - im not quite clear on exactly what it does/replaces though.)
a SPS3 (thank you shawn [:)])

and then that leaves me with about 850 to spend... (im also reaching the end of my budget lol)
i kept considering meth injection - but the thing is that C16 is READILY available at the tracks i go to, and i dont need the extra bump for day to day driving. I'm fine with the basic power a BT offers on a daily basis (atleast i think i will be) so I knocked that off my list for now...

i've been considering picking up a set of the rotas that are left from the GB, since they're at a really really good price - and i can get tires for free, but if the stock 16's are just as light there's really no point since i can just run some wider tires (225 - prolly dunlop sp9000's, they're supposed to be pretty decent, and weigh in at only 16lbs/tire according to a few sites i ran across when trying to find wheel weights)

the other thing ive been thinking about is an intake manifold, but the only ones i know of aren't supposed to be released anytime soon, and im still not certain just what gains i'd be looking at with one on a GTRS (probably not too terribly much)

any other ideas on using that money besides wheels? normally i'd just save it, but this is money i've set aside for the specific purpose of building up my car, so i kinda WANT to spend it lol.

[B6Lovin]

maybe cosmetic stuff?

i really wanna just get the car ready to use every last HP its got though. (and to make as many ponies as possible)

sway bars?
mike (or anyone for that matter) - do you have any "out of the box" suggestions on things i can do to make any more power (or optimize what i've got) short of starting to build up the motor?

any thing to get it to the ground more efficiently, to make more, to make the same amount (or more) longer, that doesn't involve upgrading the turbo or building the motor. (saving that for next year)

im turning the gears in my head as fast as they'll go and not coming up with much more -- i really didnt think this would be an issue, but i've done pretty well on getting things cheaper when possible, so now i have some leftover money to play with lol.

[dougyfresh]

a full set of 034 mounts
JHM SS (possibly with the solid linkage - im not quite clear on exactly what it does/replaces though.)
a SPS3 (thank you shawn [:)])


Totally worth it!

I just ordered those engine mounts.

I have the JHM 5spd shifter stabilizer and bushings (best money spent to date on my car)

I need to order a JHM shifter. I hate my B&M.

[mike-2ptzero]

JHM SS (possibly with the solid linkage - im not quite clear on exactly what it does/replaces though.)

It replaces the OEM rubber part in the OEM linkage with a metal part that gives the shifter a more solid feel.


i kept considering meth injection - but the thing is that C16 is READILY available at the tracks i go to, and i dont need the extra bump for day to day driving. I'm fine with the basic power a BT offers on a daily basis (atleast i think i will be) so I knocked that off my list for now...
You wont want to use C16 because it is too high of an octane for any of the standard tunes. Too high of an octane will actually decrease the power the car makes.


the other thing ive been thinking about is an intake manifold, but the only ones i know of aren't supposed to be released anytime soon, and im still not certain just what gains i'd be looking at with one on a GTRS (probably not too terribly much)

Yeah most likely not too much seeing that the GTRS isn't really flowing enough air to cause the intake manifold to be come the restriction. Cams would most likely help out more at that point.

[B6Lovin]

would you recommend mixing c16 with regular 93 octane?
i can also get 100 octane from a gas station near my house.

and you said that c16 is too much for the standard tunes... could i tweak with lemmi/sps and make it work?

[mike-2ptzero]

would you recommend mixing c16 with regular 93 octane?
i can also get 100 octane from a gas station near my house.

and you said that c16 is too much for the standard tunes... could i tweak with lemmi/sps and make it work?

Better off just mixing in 100 or running straight 100 and adding more timing with the sps.

[B6Lovin]

as promised -- Here's a full list of the things going into my GTRS build and the price I paid -- from start to finish. It also includes where I got something/got it done. If a price for something included shipping I put 0 for shipping/handling costs. Also, I did my best to remember what i paid for things that I've had for awhile, so if this is off by a few bucks don't kill me. (I'm doing this so that people can get a feel of a good price range between my build and some others.. I think I've done pretty well)

Things I've had for awhile

Custom Turbo-back Exhaust - 300 + 0 s&h (R&J Custom Exhausts)
Magnaflow 14851's - 180 + 0 s&h (eBay)
Forge 007 - 80 + 7 s&h (eBay)
DIY "Intake" (cone filter) - 15 + 0 s&h (Autozone)
Custom 3" TIP - 75 + 0 s&h (Audizine/Friends)
Custom FMIC setup - 150 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
FMIC core #2 - 70 + 0 s&h (eBay)
Delphi 440cc Injectors - 185 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
USRT Fuel Rail Spacers - 10 + 2 s&h (USRT)
AWE Stg. 3 Clutch/LWFW - 1000 + 375 install (AWE/BFI)

SUBTOTAL #1 - $2447

Things getting ordered Monday

GTRS Harware Kit - 1400 + 26 s&h (SPP)
REVO Stage 3 Tuning - 600 + 0 s&h (Apex Tuning)
ATP Exhaust Manifold - 200 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
Oil Change - 39.03 + 6.17 s&h (ECS)
G12 Coolant - 9.55 + 6.17 s&h (ECS)
Bosch FR5DTC Spark Plugs - 12 + 0 s&h (European Performance)

SUBTOTAL #2 - 2298.92

TOTAL - 4745.92
not bad for a basic GTRS setup..


Now, Heres all the things I'm getting/have but that you don't really need

JHM Short Shifter - 244.99 + 8.96 s&h (JHM)
JHM Solid Linkage Upgrade - 89.99 + 8.96 s&h (JHM)
JHM Solid Bushing Upgrade - 29.99 + 8.96 s&h (JHM)
034 Track Density Motor Mounts - 150 + 6.76 s&h (034)
034 Track Density Transmission Mount - 60 + 6.76 s&h (034)
Perrinn Manual Boost Controller - 20 + 0 s&h (Friend)
REVO SPS3 - 200 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
Rota Torque (17x8 et35) - 750 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
OEM RS4 Rear Sway Bar - 120.19 + 6.17 s&h (ECS)
Headlights - 100 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
Cutout Pipe - 25 + 9.75 s&h (Summit Racing)
QTP Electric Cutout - 100 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
RS4 Reps (19x8 et42) - 375 + 0 s&h (Craigslist)
KW V2 Coilovers - 400 + 0 s&h (Audizine)
APR Snub Mount - 40 + 10 s&h (APR)

TOTAL - 2571.48

again, not bad when you look at what's on the list...

and i think that's more or less it.... hope this will help someone out, and maybe inspire some others to really search around for mods before paying top dollar for them. [az][az][az]

and if anyone has any questions about a particular item on the list, please feel free to PM me and ask. Also keep in mind that where i saved money -- i spent A LOT OF TIME fixing, welding, filling, re-doing, fitting, etc... i've got more time invested in my car than money - and when you get down to it, i may have spent "more" by not just working those hours for the money to spend... but i feel like i've learned infinitely more about my car and how it works from taking the time to get the hands-on experience working on it.

also - that's not a complete mod list, there's a few things i left out which have absolutely nothing to do with the GTRS build, if anyone wants a complete list, again -- PM me and i'll put one together for you.

i think that's all for now -- I'll edit if i missed anything.

[:D][:D] I CANT WAIT FOR MONDAY! [:D][:D]

[400HPA4]

I paid $1900 for everything in section 2 including a Eurocode/Neuspeed turbo inlet pipe (which you have failed to list)

[B6Lovin]

^i've already got my TIP (it's in the first section), and that's pretty damn good. how'd you manage that? get your software/turbo cheaper?

[dougyfresh]

How are you paying close to $40 for an oil change? It costs me just under $30 for the oil and a filter (and that gives me almost an extra quart of oil for the next change).

[JBM]

It costs me 15 dollars for full mobil 1 syn and filter. hahah. I robbed Advance Auto clean when it was buy one get one free.

[B6Lovin]

^ the one in boone wasn't doing that sale [=(] i was pretty pissed when i found that out...

i dont think they do enough business, so they opted out somehow.

[B6Lovin]

How are you paying close to $40 for an oil change? It costs me just under $30 for the oil and a filter (and that gives me almost an extra quart of oil for the next change).

just sucking it up and ordering it from ECS along with the sway and coolant (the vw dealer wants 20 bucks for g12) which oil are you using? (i've still got a quart left from my last change too)

[400HPA4]

^i've already got my TIP (it's in the first section), and that's pretty damn good. how'd you manage that? get your software/turbo cheaper?

Your TIP is not going to fit, the outelt of the turbo is about 1 inch lower and 2 inches further forward than OEM. FWIW Mobil 1 is not full synthetic, it is a Group III oil. I only use Motul which is a Group V.

[B6Lovin]

Your TIP is not going to fit, the outelt of the turbo is about 1 inch lower and 2 inches further forward than OEM. FWIW Mobil 1 is not full synthetic, it is a Group III oil. I only use Motul which is a Group V.

it fit on shawn's car, i see no reason why it wouldn't fit on mine.... I'm using the exact same TIP setup as him.

I use pentosin, been using it for ahwhile - and i love it. just sucks that they don't carry it at autozone lol.

[400HPA4]

So you bought Shawns TIP?

[B6Lovin]

yeah, the first two parts anyways. the "cobra" looking pipe, and the 3" adapter for the turbo. (it's on the first page of this thread)

[AudiA4_20T]

good to see this comming together, you arent by the outer banks by any chance are you?

[B6Lovin]

nope, I'm in cary -- about a 5 minute drive from raleigh. I visit the mountains and beaches of NC a lot though.

you planning on being in the obx sometime soon?

[tuned A4]

Are you thinking of using the Bosch 440cc greentops?

I spoke to Scott at USRT and he told me to skip on them and use the Genesis 430cc units instead as they have a much better spray pattern.

2nd!430's are the way 2 go

[B6Lovin]

^i'm running delphi 440's

[AudiA4_20T]

nope, I'm in cary -- about a 5 minute drive from raleigh. I visit the mountains and beaches of NC a lot though.

you planning on being in the obx sometime soon?

this weekend lol

[B6Lovin]

ah, one more weekend and i coulda met up with you -- i'm chillin for my last weekend in the mountains this semester. no work - just parties. hahaha.

now, if you feel like driving all the way across the state and need a place to chill in boone then lmk. hahaha

[jbrown7815]

So I know I am reviving an old thread, but did you ever actually do this? I see you have 3071 now...


Details? :D

[B6Lovin]

So I know I am reviving an old thread, but did you ever actually do this? I see you have 3071 now...


Details? :D

i ran the GTRS for a few weeks till i blew up the motor - main and all but 100% confirmed suspect for the failure is too rough of a torque spike/too much power for stock rods.

built up the motor, had a 3071R (took that off tonight, and yes it is for sale) and have a 3076R going in ASAP.

which details of the process would you like? it's pretty straight forward lol

[jbrown7815]

i ran the GTRS for a few weeks till i blew up the motor - main and all but 100% confirmed suspect for the failure is too rough of a torque spike/too much power for stock rods.

built up the motor, had a 3071R (took that off tonight, and yes it is for sale) and have a 3076R going in ASAP.

which details of the process would you like? it's pretty straight forward lol

We're you a bit harsh on it since the motor blew?

What were you putting to the wheels?


I'm going GTRS soon, and Greg assured me I didn't need rods.

[mike-2ptzero]

We're you a bit harsh on it since the motor blew?

What were you putting to the wheels?


I'm going GTRS soon, and Greg assured me I didn't need rods.

No way he was making anywhere near the amount of power Greg makes seeing that Greg pushes 28-30psi making 360whp. Standard pump tune for the Elims is 250-280whp and standard race tune pushing around 22-25psi is 320-330whp.

[B6Lovin]

No way he was making anywhere near the amount of power Greg makes seeing that Greg pushes 28-30psi making 360whp. Standard pump tune for the Elims is 250-280whp and standard race tune pushing around 22-25psi is 320-330whp.

definitely not the 360+ that greg is making, but i would venture a safe guess in the 300whp neighborhood +/- 15whp.

i have said it before and i will say it again - i was assured many many times that i would not need rods.... and told once that i would. in the end it's up to you whether or not you get them, and to be perfectly honest - you might end up like the vast majority of eliminator owners NOT needing them.

I however would have benefited from them and because of my own experience i caution every potential customer against what CAN happen. again, you might not - and probably will not be making enough power, driving hard enough, and having fast enough boost onset (torque spikes) to need them... but things do happen sometimes.

choice is yours - and i have, did, and will continue to trust greg's judgement - so know that at the least you are in very very good and capable hands. (oh yeah, mikes too [rolleyes][rolleyes] [:D])

[jbrown7815]

definitely not the 360+ that greg is making, but i would venture a safe guess in the 300whp neighborhood +/- 15whp.

i have said it before and i will say it again - i was assured many many times that i would not need rods.... and told once that i would. in the end it's up to you whether or not you get them, and to be perfectly honest - you might end up like the vast majority of eliminator owners NOT needing them.

I however would have benefited from them and because of my own experience i caution every potential customer against what CAN happen. again, you might not - and probably will not be making enough power, driving hard enough, and having fast enough boost onset (torque spikes) to need them... but things do happen sometimes.

choice is yours - and i have, did, and will continue to trust greg's judgement - so know that at the least you are in very very good and capable hands. (oh yeah, mikes too [rolleyes][rolleyes] [:D])

How much money did you invest to just do rods & the rest of the stuff required to do them? Did you pay labor?

[B6Lovin]

How much money did you invest to just do rods & the rest of the stuff required to do them? Did you pay labor?

well that's the problem - i didn't do JUST rods. i've got a totally built motor because i didn't do JUST rods the first time and i blew up my engine.

yes i payed labor for my motor - everything all said and done stayed around upper 9g's counting all labor, built bottom end, head, new turbo, lines, intake mani/TB, exhaust mani, etc etc etc. everything in my engine is new other than the intake valves, cams, and crank. (block too, but it was supposedly a low-miles block, and it was honed anywho.)

ill send you a PM regarding this and a few other things tonight [up]

[AudiA4_20T]

How much money did you invest to just do rods & the rest of the stuff required to do them? Did you pay labor?

I would expect to pay $1k-$1500

[B6Lovin]

I would expect to pay $1k-$1500

thank you clint

[jbrown7815]

well that's the problem - i didn't do JUST rods. i've got a totally built motor because i didn't do JUST rods the first time and i blew up my engine.

yes i payed labor for my motor - everything all said and done stayed around upper 9g's counting all labor, built bottom end, head, new turbo, lines, intake mani/TB, exhaust mani, etc etc etc. everything in my engine is new other than the intake valves, cams, and crank. (block too, but it was supposedly a low-miles block, and it was honed anywho.)

ill send you a PM regarding this and a few other things tonight [up]


Sounds great, thanks!

[dubgli]

okay. so i have read this thread back and forth from page 1. earlier in the post some mentioned about the boost valve on the turbo that connects to the n75, or the boost controller. The GTRS does not have this boost valve, and some stated that the boost valve is located on the turbo outlet adapter flange?? what part is this? does it come with the eurocode kit? I need help with my set up so please if someone could help. thanks.

[dougyfresh]

okay. so i have read this thread back and forth from page 1. earlier in the post some mentioned about the boost valve on the turbo that connects to the n75, or the boost controller. The GTRS does not have this boost valve, and some stated that the boost valve is located on the turbo outlet adapter flange?? what part is this? does it come with the eurocode kit? I need help with my set up so please if someone could help. thanks.

Its either going to be on the output flange of the compressor (a barbed fitting) or you are going to have to drill and tap either the output flange or your charge pipe to your intercooler.

I don't see it on the output flange here (lower left corner of the turbo) so I presume you are on your own to drill and tap.
https://secure.memca.com/ecodetuning/images/products/547_large.jpg

[Molotov]

GTRS comes drilled and tapped on the charge pipe, at least from eurocode it does.

[dougyfresh]

GTRS comes drilled and tapped on the charge pipe, at least from eurocode it does.

Thanks for the clarification. I've only dealt with used GTRS' that already had the fitting installed. Was not sure what a new GTRS comes with.

[A4natomical]

^^mine has a fitting.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

My gtrs had a nipple on it for the boost reference line as well when I bought it back in Dec. 05

It is on the inside of the outlet of the turbo closest to the center cartridge. That is why you cant see it in that pic.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/Urbamworm/130-3098_IMG.jpg

[GypsySmash]

another thing....

Do a compression and leak-down test prior to installing any of your GTRS hardware. I would advise against installing the GTRS if your engine isn't sound. Trust me......

How can I know or make sure that my engine is sound? and what can I do to make sure that it IS in sound shape