Rs4 cams (attn Cable!)

[awdbiturbo]

From what i have heard the rs4 exhaust cams are the same as the s4, However the intake cams are the ones that are different. Can anyone guarantee that is coorect? Also would it be of any help to use these to squeze the most hp out of my RSK04/16 beast that i am trying to build up?

[10SecS4]

Waste of money. Just use stock cams.

[indica]

you are correct the intake cams are the ones that are different. FWIW i have heard they are much more aggresive.

[audispeed]

I believe someone said a while ago that rs4 cams where the same as those on the 2.8 engine. It could be wrong, but thats what I heard.

[BramellS4]

I would use the 2.8 euro cams. They have a bit more lift then the rs4. With the exhaust back pressure the way it is, someone needs to degree the cams a little bit. I think this is the key to making power with the s4.

[awdbiturbo]

That is what i heard to,That the 2.8 cams are the same as the rs4 cams. I was just interested in making some extra power out of my RSK04/16 custom setup.

[Cable]

I have seen a few posts on that subject as well. I recall being quoted specifications that did differentiate them from one another, both head CFM and cam lobes but, I could be mistaken given that the research was not mine.

I have been speaking with people from Dahlback and they have been doing some work with RS4 and 2.8 heads. This work included experimentation with RS4 cams. They concluded that the intake cam for most will not be desired. However, they did experience some considerable gains with a modified head and the exhaust cam. I do not have the specs and can only comment on what was part of our conversation. Programming must be remapped and RS4 intake and throttle body must be used. These items can get very pricey and do not constitute the modifications considered by a large portion of the tuning market. They are looking for integration into the north American marketplace so some opportunities might come about.

With that said the 2.8 heads are being ported as we speak for the installation on another car, not mine, with the exhaust cams and is in the process with some K04/K16's, K04/K24's laying in wait , and a beta version software. Meanwhile, a full motor build up with new hardened internals is also being assembled......more to come.

With that said I have RS4 K04's, stock internals, and have only been able to get a 12.2 @ 117mph with 1.68s 60' (22psi) in the quarter mile with +90deg ambient temps. A like tuned car was able to dial in a 11.7 with ambients in the triple digits, which may be driver skills but, we wont talk about that.

I agree that for the most of us out there in turnerland RS4 cams are a waste of time and money but, those of us who seek to break ground and increase the depth of S4 tuning find ourselves never really able to sit still. These projects are being endeavoured by mod junkies just like you and hopefully will be interpreted as part of the betterment for the whole body of S4 enthusiasts. You will never get where you want to go by staying where you are at....................

[jeremy@matrix]

Originally posted by Cable
I have seen a few posts on that subject as well. I recall being quoted specifications that did differentiate them from one another, both head CFM and cam lobes but, I could be mistaken given that the research was not mine.

I have been speaking with people from Dahlback and they have been doing some work with RS4 and 2.8 heads. This work included experimentation with RS4 cams. They concluded that the intake cam for most will not be desired. However, they did experience some considerable gains with a modified head and the exhaust cam. I do not have the specs and can only comment on what was part of our conversation. Programming must be remapped and RS4 intake and throttle body must be used. These items can get very pricey and do not constitute the modifications considered by a large portion of the tuning market. They are looking for integration into the north American marketplace so some opportunities might come about.

With that said the 2.8 heads are being ported as we speak for the installation on another car, not mine, with the exhaust cams and is in the process with some K04/K16's, K04/K24's laying in wait , and a beta version software. Meanwhile, a full motor build up with new hardened internals is also being assembled......more to come.

With that said I have RS4 K04's, stock internals, and have only been able to get a 12.2 @ 117mph with 1.68s 60' (22psi) in the quarter mile with +90deg ambient temps. A like tuned car was able to dial in a 11.7 with ambients in the triple digits, which may be driver skills but, we wont talk about that.

I agree that for the most of us out there in turnerland RS4 cams are a waste of time and money but, those of us who seek to break ground and increase the depth of S4 tuning find ourselves never really able to sit still. These projects are being endeavoured by mod junkies just like you and hopefully will be interpreted as part of the betterment for the whole body of S4 enthusiasts. You will never get where you want to go by staying where you are at....................

Built bottom end----yummy.

Good stuff Cable. Keep it coming. <beer>

[pythaguras]

ask the same question on AW and you'll be sure to get some good responses

[s4orce]

I used Sportec intake AND exhaust cams with 2.8 euro heads and valve train and noticed a significant increase in HP and TQ up top from 5K - 7K RPM's. Call ASW in colorado to get more info on the CAMS but I think a more aggressiveIntake/ exhaust cam profile will help in adding more flow to the turbo's up top as well as clearing the cylinders of the spent gases. I am no engineer by any stretch but when you combine more aggressive cams with RS4 intake mani and rs4 TB on top of a typical stage 3 S4 it will make a difference. On my car the HP keeps rising all the way to fuel cutoff and TQ doesn't even hint at dropping till over 6K and then it does so slowly and I am running KO4/RS6 hybrid turbo from Imolavirus so I am sure the turbo's help as well. On 91 craptane I saw 355 WHP after my 4th dyno pull ( heatsoaked by this time ) and this was on a roller dyno, a Mustang 500E which tends to read a tad low I think.

So take it for what's worth but if you do cams you need to do other mods in conjuction with for them to be effective. CAMS alone are not the answer.

[jeremy@matrix]

Originally posted by s4orce
I used Sportec intake AND exhaust cams with 2.8 euro heads and valve train and noticed a significant increase in HP and TQ up top from 5K - 7K RPM's. Call ASW in colorado to get more info on the CAMS but I think a more aggressiveIntake/ exhaust cam profile will help in adding more flow to the turbo's up top as well as clearing the cylinders of the spent gases. I am no engineer by any stretch but when you combine more aggressive cams with RS4 intake mani and rs4 TB on top of a typical stage 3 S4 it will make a difference. On my car the HP keeps rising all the way to fuel cutoff and TQ doesn't even hint at dropping till over 6K and then it does so slowly and I am running KO4/RS6 hybrid turbo from Imolavirus so I am sure the turbo's help as well. On 91 craptane I saw 355 WHP after my 4th dyno pull ( heatsoaked by this time ) and this was on a roller dyno, a Mustang 500E which tends to read a tad low I think.

So take it for what's worth but if you do cams you need to do other mods in conjuction with for them to be effective. CAMS alone are not the answer.

Thx for the info s4orce.

Did you dyno stock on the Mustang dyno? Was it AWE's dyno you ran on?

[s4orce]

We ( local Audi club ) didn't have anyone with a stock S4 that wanted to dyno. We had several chip only S4's that put out between 245-250 whp using MTM and Autothority chips if I am not mistaken. Dyno was not on AWE's, I live in MN and the Mustang dyno we used was recently installed and they didn't have any fans to cool the rides between pulls, they had a car overheat shortly after we ran so they shut it down till they could get a high speed fan ordered and installed. I plan on going back in few weeks to dyno my 100 octane ecu . HOPING I can hit 400whp+ with that setup when properly cooled.

[jeremy@matrix]

Originally posted by s4orce
We ( local Audi club ) didn't have anyone with a stock S4 that wanted to dyno. We had several chip only S4's that put out between 245-250 whp using MTM and Autothority chips if I am not mistaken. Dyno was not on AWE's, I live in MN and the Mustang dyno we used was recently installed and they didn't have any fans to cool the rides between pulls, they had a car overheat shortly after we ran so they shut it down till they could get a high speed fan ordered and installed. I plan on going back in few weeks to dyno my 100 octane ecu . HOPING I can hit 400whp+ with that setup when properly cooled.

Cool, thx for the info.
Which shop in MN has the dyne?

Fans are definitely important...

[Cable]

Jeremy -

I have been meaning to come and visit.

I have a new set of K16/K04 hybrids going in soon. I hope to see 440+whp on pump. On AMS (with custom tweaks) I saw 375whp on pump, after converting to REVO around 417whp on pump.

The RS4 manifold, TB, and cams with ported heads are an attractive lure but, that is some serious cash and in current territory I have already begun to be concerned about drive shafts.

FYI - I dynoed at FAME (mustang dyno) where a stock S4 puts down 175-185whp on pump and chipped S4's put down 225-240whp on pump.

A fully built motor is in the works but, it is a long term project (not my car).....uber turbos are going on it.

[jeremy@matrix]

Originally posted by Cable
Jeremy -

I have been meaning to come and visit.

I have a new set of K16/K04 hybrids going in soon. I hope to see 440+whp on pump. On AMS (with custom tweaks) I saw 375whp on pump, after converting to REVO around 417whp on pump.

The RS4 manifold, TB, and cams with ported heads are an attractive lure but, that is some serious cash and in current territory I have already begun to be concerned about drive shafts.

FYI - I dynoed at FAME (mustang dyno) where a stock S4 puts down 175-185whp on pump and chipped S4's put down 225-240whp on pump.

A fully built motor is in the works but, it is a long term project (not my car).....uber turbos are going on it.

Hey Cable,

We'd love to see ya!

Interesting that a stock B5 S4 does 180ish WHP on FAME's dyno and a stock B5 S4 does 180-190WHP on ours....when the EVO numbers we've seen from FAME have been much higher than ours and it still seems they do parasitic runs when we do not.
[confused]

PS---I have been talking to "the guy" behind the fully built bottom end....we have one here that is completely disassembled as well. [:)] It'll be interesting to see what happens....

[Cable]

I have heard of adjustments both ways for numerous reasons but, on the S4 baseline that was established no adjustments were taken, that I am aware of. I have spoken to others who had requested adjustments due to presumed losses. I just retained the numbers that were given after the run like the ones I did at your shop.

The run on which I generated 375whp actually showed 386whp on the screen but, then corrected itself to 375whp.....:(. So if anything the numbers I saw were reduced by some factor.

It is all mute because dyno discussions always become circular conversations. Realistically, I just like to think of the numbers as a gauge and not an absolute. In the end it is about track times and 1/4 mile times........IMO. I wll call you after the car is together and we will set some dyno time up. My buddy with the A6 I tweaked may also want to come and hop on the dyno as well as pick up the tranny programming.....chat with you soon.

[s4orce]

Originally posted by jeremy@matrix
Cool, thx for the info.
Which shop in MN has the dyne?

Fans are definitely important...

A place called RS Motors in St. Paul off Snelling.

www.rs-motors.com should get you there FWIW.

[jeremy@matrix]

Originally posted by Cable
I have heard of adjustments both ways for numerous reasons but, on the S4 baseline that was established no adjustments were taken, that I am aware of. I have spoken to others who had requested adjustments due to presumed losses. I just retained the numbers that were given after the run like the ones I did at your shop.

The run on which I generated 375whp actually showed 386whp on the screen but, then corrected itself to 375whp.....:(. So if anything the numbers I saw were reduced by some factor.

It is all mute because dyno discussions always become circular conversations. Realistically, I just like to think of the numbers as a gauge and not an absolute. In the end it is about track times and 1/4 mile times........IMO. I wll call you after the car is together and we will set some dyno time up. My buddy with the A6 I tweaked may also want to come and hop on the dyno as well as pick up the tranny programming.....chat with you soon.

Cool, sounds good.

[jeremy@matrix]

Originally posted by s4orce
A place called RS Motors in St. Paul off Snelling.

www.rs-motors.com should get you there FWIW.

Cool, thx.

[BigBen]

Originally posted by s4orce
We ( local Audi club ) didn't have anyone with a stock S4 that wanted to dyno. We had several chip only S4's that put out between 245-250 whp using MTM and Autothority chips if I am not mistaken. Dyno was not on AWE's, I live in MN and the Mustang dyno we used was recently installed and they didn't have any fans to cool the rides between pulls, they had a car overheat shortly after we ran so they shut it down till they could get a high speed fan ordered and installed. I plan on going back in few weeks to dyno my 100 octane ecu . HOPING I can hit 400whp+ with that setup when properly cooled.

Jim, I'd like to get a base run on the new(to me) S4. Then we could have stock S4 numbers for RS's dyno.

[s4orce]

Originally posted by MNsilverA4
Jim, I'd like to get a base run on the new(to me) S4. Then we could have stock S4 numbers for RS's dyno.

I am hoping sometime in Sept. I can get back over there and dyno my 100 octane ECU, you want to join a few of us then ? I know I can get a few more folks over there in spet. JG

[OZZ]

There is a difference between RS4 and S4 intake cams. One guy from Ukraine took rs4 injectors, cams and better software, result - 420 Hp, nice.