11Sec S4 vs TurboIS300 (Video)

[10SecS4]

Many thanks to Alex (lil' is 300) for the footage, video editing, and hosting. [:D]

http://kryptonik.org/lilis300/TurboIS300_vs_11SecS4.wmv

[twinsnailsS4]

[eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] Wow, that IS300 is by no means a slouch, and you beat him by a considerable amount every time. That Sportec tuning, and what ever other stuff you have on the car, are awesome because you seem to be running a good second or so faster than all other Stage III S4's. Out of curiousity, how's your car reliability wise? Good stuff man!

BTW, I like the GT2 "kill" video better. Seriously, talk about an AWD launch advantage. It was like the Porsche driver was sleeping.

As for your 3000 GT video, what exactly was happening there? I saw you take off and then like 20 cars are following behind (ok, may be more like 6 or so)

[widm3r]

he launched before the race started, and all i have to say about the s4 is wowsers!

[EC Motorwerks]

wow insane car....i wish i had that kinda ca$h.

[awdbiturbo]

WHat kind of hard parts are you running? Any manifods, k16's or labreee's. What kind of DP's do you run? I am very impressed, I am building up a s4 with k16's duh fmic and alot of other go fast goodies. Lets talk

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by widm3r
he launched before the race started, and all i have to say about the s4 is wowsers!
Not true. The owner of the 600+ RWHP GT2 was sleeping. You can hear that I left right after the third honk like I was supposed to. He's the dumbass for waiting so long. Easy money. [:D]

As for the VR4, he started to roll so as soon as I saw him move, I launched. Not my problem there either. [:p]

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by twinsnailsS4
[eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] Wow, that IS300 is by no means a slouch, and you beat him by a considerable amount every time. That Sportec tuning, and what ever other stuff you have on the car, are awesome because you seem to be running a good second or so faster than all other Stage III S4's. Out of curiousity, how's your car reliability wise? Good stuff man!

BTW, I like the GT2 "kill" video better. Seriously, talk about an AWD launch advantage. It was like the Porsche driver was sleeping.

As for your 3000 GT video, what exactly was happening there? I saw you take off and then like 20 cars are following behind (ok, may be more like 6 or so)
My car is extremely reliable. In the ten months that I've owned it, the only issue was a broken shifter: it literally exploded into about 10 different pieces! I had to drive the car home from the track in 3rd gear! Not fun! But it was warrantied since it was an aftermarket shifter. Other than that, the car has been mechanically sound. *knock on wood*

Yeah, the GT2 driver was sleeping bigtime. Dumbasses in the VR4 race were just ****in around and trying to catch us I guess. [rolleyes] All I cared about was getting our $800 ($400 x 2 since we raced twice). [;)]

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by awdbiturbo
WHat kind of hard parts are you running? Any manifods, k16's or labreee's. What kind of DP's do you run? I am very impressed, I am building up a s4 with k16's duh fmic and alot of other go fast goodies. Lets talk
I'm running stock heads, stock cams, stock manifolds, and stock RS4 K04 turbos. Downpipes are Milltek. I'd ditch that DUH FMIC if I were you. Duh! [:p] Seriously, I think you'd make better power with RS4 intercoolers. That DUH piping is pretty scary looking, don't you think?

[DRA4]

Mad props to the S4, i wish my car could do that.

[EVIL-AUDI]

great vid.

[lil' is 300]

It was a fun run. Couldn't believe you pulled so hard. Get that automatic S4 ready and we'll do a few more runs. This time, we'll put the camera in your car so you can watch me pull away! [:p]

[$teady$upreme]

^^that auto tranny is holding some serious power man~

[[]D[][]V[][]D]

Sick s4 bro

[indica]

that 11 sec s4 is an automatic?!?!?! wtf? are you serious?

[Cable]

Nice vid!

Too bad most of the really interesting action takes place at night. Daylight provides better depth perception......plus you can see the look on the guys face when you hand him his arse........LOL.

[lil' is 300]

indica - He's talking about my tranny...it's an automatic.

Cable - The camera was mounted in the car so even if it was light out, you wouldn't see any faces. Besides, they're too many cars out when it's light out [confused]

[Jon_Rhea]

nice vids!! what were those guys talking about in the end of the VR4 vid??

[Cable]

IS - I know it was more an off the cuff comment not intended to be taken too seriously. Hence the...LOL

Nice car BTW

There is a local IS here that is blue and has a FMIC don't know wether it is manual or auto but, it looks schweet.

[Innovator]

[i] Dumbasses in the VR4 race were just ****in around and trying to catch us I guess. [rolleyes] All I cared about was getting our $800 ($400 x 2 since we raced twice). [;)] [/B]

Hi.

I have a VR4, and I'd love to race you. I have no N2O or anything that would be sneaky. Just 475 or so AWHP.

Name the amount you'd like to bet. Any amount is fine. I am in Albany NY, and I won't have to try to catch up to you [:)] Racing from a roll is preferable, because I've snapped too many output shafts launching it.

Rick.

[creep]

^^^ if this goes down i want to see vids! should be a good race.

[DRA4]

lets get to the videos.

[I am armed]

Vids. Now.

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by Innovator
Hi.

I have a VR4, and I'd love to race you. I have no N2O or anything that would be sneaky. Just 475 or so AWHP.

Name the amount you'd like to bet. Any amount is fine. I am in Albany NY, and I won't have to try to catch up to you [:)] Racing from a roll is preferable, because I've snapped too many output shafts launching it.

Rick.
I will only race the 1/4 mile. How about 2 G's with $500 "punk out" money? Send me a PM or call me at 845-629-8901 to set it up.

P.S. Thanks for the tap for the aquamist. [;)]

[EVIL-AUDI]

11SecS4 doesn't play around eh

[Innovator]

Originally posted by 11SecS4
I will only race the 1/4 mile. How about 2 G's with $500 "punk out" money? Send me a PM or call me at 845-629-8901 to set it up.

P.S. Thanks for the tap for the aquamist. [;)]

Oh, that was you. Ok[:)]

I don't mess with 3G cars, because they are much lighter and you never know what they're packing. They usually won't bet enough money to make it worth my while. An S4 and a VR4 are about the same weight.

Look, I work on all the local police cars in the area. They would not be a problem, and I know of an isolated road that is smooth and 1 mile long . It was a private airport at one time.


What do you say to a friendly $1000.00 wager that I get you by at least 10 car lengths from a roll, to say 120 MPH?

Let me know[cool]

[Innovator]

Originally posted by s4creep
^^^ if this goes down i want to see vids! should be a good race.

Eh. Nobody up here is willing to race me for cash, so I figure I have to go after you downstate guys[:)]

[EVIL-AUDI]

haha, I'm going to watch over this closely.

[Innovator]

Cool. Just know I'm not trying to start any shit. I just want a good race for a change. Vipers and ZO6 vettes just aren't cutting it anymore.

[EVIL-AUDI]

That's what we are all here for. Enjoy.

Viper and Z06's, we have a handful of S4's around here that got tired of those guys a while back too.[:D]

[Innovator]

Well, that's quite an undertaking. They must have been stock. And with two wheel peel, they launch rather poorly compared to us AWD guys. So if they don't have enough power to catch up, they're dead in the water. So far, none of them have, except this 1996 Viper, that turned out having a 100 shot.[mad] He cleaned my clock, but I never had to pay because we busted him.

Anyway, I've developed a war chest of winnings, so I don't mind betting high.

I might even consider a race from the start, but since he has a Tip, it seems fairer to do it from a roll.

Not that I wouldn't reel him in if he got the jump, which I'm certain he would with a Tip.

Sorry if I seem cocky, I just have confidence in my baby[:)]

[EVIL-AUDI]

The S4 we speak of doesn't have a Tip.

[Innovator]

Either way.[:)]

[EVIL-AUDI]

Just making sure we are on the same page, but I'm sure 11Sec will be here soon enough.

[creep]

this is getting interesting...

[10SecS4]

For starters, I don't race from a roll for money. Since there's never a definitive starting or finish line, it's never clear who wins and who gets the money. This often leads to problems.

Secondly, racing from a roll often only proves the amount of money somebody has poured into their car; it does not really take into account driver skill, traction, reliability (i.e. not snapping an output shaft on the launch), etc. The 1/4 mile race combines a little bit of everything; that's why it's so popular in this country.

Who said I had a tip in my S4? Mine's a 6 speed. I think they were talking about the Lexus in the video, which is a slushbox.

When I said 2G's I meant $2,000, not a 2G DSM.

Let me know if you want to lock something in for the 1/4 mile. You have bigger turbos, more displacement, probably a standalone, etc, etc. You should be able to beat me easily, so let's try to set this up for $2,000 or more...

Marc

[EVIL-AUDI]

Knew he'd show

[Innovator]

Originally posted by 11SecS4
For starters, I don't race from a roll for money. Since there's never a definitive starting or finish line, it's never clear who wins and who gets the money. This often leads to problems.

Secondly, racing from a roll often only proves the amount of money somebody has poured into their car; it does not really take into account driver skill, traction, reliability (i.e. not snapping an output shaft on the launch), etc. The 1/4 mile race combines a little bit of everything; that's why it's so popular in this country.

Who said I had a tip in my S4? Mine's a 6 speed. I think they were talking about the Lexus in the video, which is a slushbox.

When I said 2G's I meant $2,000, not a 2G DSM.

Let me know if you want to lock something in for the 1/4 mile. You have bigger turbos, more displacement, probably a standalone, etc, etc. You should be able to beat me easily, so let's try to set this up for $2,000 or more...

Marc

I don't have a stand alone, just an AFC.

I have too much power to launch without potentially damaging my tranny or frying my clutch. It cost 2500 for a rebuild on it. BTDT Especially now with my Eagle F1 tires, something will likely break, because they don't like to spin like the cheaper rubber.

So 2,000 is fine but from a roll, with a finish point.In fact, 3,000 is good too. Name your price, and I'll make it worth your while.

BTW, I don't blame you for not wanting to go from a roll. Losing is no fun. There is no shame.

[10SecS4]

Why would you buy and then build an AWD car if you can't even run the 1/4 mile with it? That seems pretty foolish to me. Your car isn't a street car if you're afraid a single 1/4 mile race will result in a blown tranny or clutch. My S4 is a street car with over 400 launches on the same clutch and trans.

I'll make you a deal: If either of us break a drivetrain component off the line -- i.e., a tranny, clutch, rear end, etc., the race will be nullified and no money will exchange hands. I think that's fair.

Marc

[Innovator]

The answer is simple. I have 500 ft/lbs at the wheels.

I didn't build a car to launch, rather to be the fastest on the open road. I'm not into the 1/4 mile. As a matter of fact, the 11.3 I got was with somebody else driving. Truth is, I never seem to launch right. And I have the best trans in my car I've had to date, and I'm not looking to break it. The tranny output shaft to the TC is the weak point on my car. And FWIW, I didn't pour much money in my car. Turbos, injectors, exhaust, and a piggyback. That's it. 3000 dollars in mods and my labor.


So, if you are interested, from a first gear roll is what I'm willing to do. You must not have any N2O.

What's your problem with that anyway? With 3K at stake, I think it's you that might be the foolish one[:D]

Or maybe you are smarter than I think.[;)]

[10SecS4]

No thanks. Running from a roll is for people who either can't drive or can't hook their car. There's no fun in running from a roll. Besides, street racing is "run what ya brung" and I don't like how you are giving conditions, i.e., "no N20." I don't have a bottle in my car, but I hate when people make up all kinds of silly rules like that. What if I were to say "no race gas?" How would that be any different from you saying no nitrous?

Here's a thought: Why don't you run your S4 vs mine? Since you own a shop that specializes in building and repairing S4s, you should be able to smoke me!! I do all my work in a one car garage on my back!! [:D]

BTW, please tell me how I can get an SAFC, injectors, fuel pump, upgraded turbos and intercoolers, Modded manifolds and outlets, head and intake manifold porting, water injection, aluminum flywheel, aftermarket clutch, AVC-R, gauges, wideband, lowering springs, Volk wheels, etc, etc. for $3,000. Your mods list sounds more like $8K to $10K even with you getting a lot of it at cost. BTW, my car is pretty much all stock OEM RS4. OEM fuel system, clutch, turbos, etc.

Marc

[Innovator]

Originally posted by 11SecS4
No thanks. Running from a roll is for people who either can't drive or can't hook their car. There's no fun in running from a roll. Besides, street racing is "run what ya brung" and I don't like how you are giving conditions, i.e., "no N20." I don't have a bottle in my car, but I hate when people make up all kinds of silly rules like that. What if I were to say "no race gas?" How would that be any different from you saying no nitrous?

Here's a thought: Why don't you run your S4 vs mine? Since you own a shop that specializes in building and repairing S4s, you should be able to smoke me!! I do all my work in a one car garage on my back!! [:D]

BTW, please tell me how I can get an SAFC, injectors, fuel pump, upgraded turbos and intercoolers, Modded manifolds and outlets, head and intake manifold porting, water injection, aluminum flywheel, aftermarket clutch, AVC-R, gauges, wideband, lowering springs, Volk wheels, etc, etc. for $3,000. Your mods list sounds more like $8K to $10K even with you getting a lot of it at cost. BTW, my car is pretty much all stock OEM RS4. OEM fuel system, clutch, turbos, etc.

Marc

What, no N2O is silly? [rolleyes] And I do not specialize in S4s. I just happen to be good at working on them. Most of what I do is general repair BTW.

And the other mods you mention are not go fast mods. They are only show. The wideband is just a tuning aid, and the ported heads are no biggie. I did it all myself. It made little difference to be honest.

How do I get good pricing on my mods? I have wholesale accounts with everyone. Lot's of it was used stuff, from customers’ cars that upgraded, like the flywheel which added nothing in terms of power.

My S4 is not anything special, and that is not what I offered to race you with. Stick with the program Mark.

Race gas is fine. As a matter of fact, you can watch me fill up on 93 octane and you can run the race gas I dont care.

Look, you are getting a little agitated. There is no need for that. I offered to race on very simple terms. A simple NO would suffice.


Peace

[10SecS4]

N20 is a power adder just like turbos. Why penalize somebody for using a different strategy to go fast? People use nitrous in different applications, so just because you don't have it doesn't make it right for you to tell others not to use it when they race you. That's silly and shows that you're not that confident in your own car. As the old saying goes... "Run what ya brung." Or how about this one: "Run your car, not your mouth." Haha.

Between your awesome S4 wrenching skills and your wholesale connections, you should have the fastest S4 on the planet! So why not run it? S4 vs S4. I think that would be even better since we'd both be running the same car.

I'm not getting agitated in the slightest bit... I just find it a bit odd to get called out by someone with an AWD car wanting to race from a roll. But I can sorta understand that you have a race car that breaks a lot and you can't launch it without breaking your expensive transmission (the one that along with all other mods in your signature costs less than $3K right?) [rolleyes] What's the point in even building a car if you're afraid of it breaking?

I must decline your offer to race from a roll. It's obvious you can't drive and as such have to race people from a roll. It's not the first time I've seen this. That's a damn shame, because I know a lot of people were hoping to see two fast AWD cars going at it in the 1/4 mile. Oh well, maybe you'll want to run my Supra from a roll? Or does that violate your "simple terms?" LOL.

Marc

[Innovator]

Boy, you are sure turning this around to get out of it. That's ok. Truth is, I don't feel my S4 can ever be as fast as , as great handling and as nice looking as my VR4. So I do not dump money into it. It's just a comfort car for me and my family. It's fast, but it ain't my VR4!!!

Got a Supra huh? I'll race that under the same terms. How's that for running my mouth?

[cool]

[10SecS4]

LOL, you're trying to to turn this into a pissing contest now, but that's not my style. The S4 and VR-4 are both great cars. How's that? [:D]

Since I think you're full of shit and won't run the Supra from a roll for money, prove me wrong. But since you called ME out, you're going to have to come down here to my neck of the woods. I'm about 2-3 hours away. I can guarantee you a race with the Supra and would be willing to put up $2,000 "bitch out" money. If one person bitches out, then the other gets that money. That's how it goes.

Or, gimme a call when you learn how to drive and have the balls to run your car in the 1/4 mile against my S4. I'll be waiting.

Marc

[10SecS4]

So $3K and you'll run the Supra from a roll? How do we lock this in?

[Innovator]

You tell me sport. I hope you have a big single turbo. And we will need to get to a pretty good top speed in excess of 120 MPH. Do you have a safe place to do this without cops? If not, we'll need to do this up here.

[10SecS4]

Yes, we have lots of spots. We have a couple spots that are marked off for the mile. Is a mile a good race? We can start from a 10 or 20mph roll just as we pass the starting line. I'll give you the jump just so that there are no excuses after. LMK...

Marc

[Innovator]

Hmm, you'll give me the jump? Now, that's confidence that might scare me out of a race.

What are you running may I ask? I've been open about my mods. I may need to do some prepping if the engines are not of similar nature. At least with the S4, there was no chance of you winning[:)]

[10SecS4]

How big a difference can the jump make if we're running the mile? I just don't want to hear any excuses afterwards.

It's a '93 Supra with a bolt on turbo kit and FMIC. Stock bottom end. No prepping is needed since we're both running turbocharged 3.0L 6 cylinders. Let me know.

Marc

[Innovator]

Most peeps don't change the bottom end, as there is no need to. And depending on your turbo, you can be running 14 psi or 30+. That's a little bit of a difference, especially when you have not disclosed the size. There is a limit to turbo size on a VR4, and the amount of boost you can run since timing cannot be controlled without a stand alone..

Your over confidence does have me nervous, I must admit.

[10SecS4]

I knew you'd bitch out. Oh well. Let me know when you actually want to race and not just talk shit on an Internet forum. Both my Supra and S4 will be waiting until then...

[Innovator]

See, you have to get nasty. Calling me a bitch.

When someone offers to give you a jump, they're dirty. I don't trust you now . That's from 40 years of experiance.

Look, the S4 is where this started. Lets make it 4000?

[10SecS4]

LOL, I didn't call you a bitch. I said you bitched out. There's a difference.

Look, you were the one who called me out and said I was scared to race, blah blah blah. My S4 isn't my fastest car, so I offered to run you in my Supra. Now you're backing down again... First it was being scared to run my S4 in the 1/4 mile and you'd only run it from a roll. Then it was no nitrous. Then you wouldn't run your S4 vs mine. Now you're afraid to run my Supra? Seems like you're making up all the rules as you go along.

I have half the years of experience as you, so you should be able to teach me a good lesson in street racing. So when you grow a set and want to run your fastest car vs my fastest car (no friend's cars), give me a ring.

Marc

[Innovator]

You see, with a Supra, there is sooo much you can do to it to make them rocket fast.

There is a good chance that my V is as fast as your Supra, but I would need to know what you're running to keep it fair. It's nothing I can't compansate for in one way or another if you get me pissed enough though.[:D] I'm not looking to get into a pissing match, even if that's what you think is going on.

The S4 is limited at this point, in so much as how fast you can make them. I know you can't possibly beat me, from a roll or other wise. But what's the fun if it isn't me that beats you in my car? I am not good at launching it, but that doen't mean I can't drive. One wrong move and it will bog because the turbos won't be spooled . There is no wheel spin possible with these Eagles I have on it without a 6K launch, and I'm just not willing to do that..

I've got enough balls to do anything, and stand up to anybody, but balls and stupidity are two different things. Maybe in 20 years, you'll realize that too.[:)]

[10SecS4]

That's street racing. If you're afraid of breaking drivetrain components or bogging off the line, you don't really have a good platform to work with. My S4 runs consistently at the track and does not break. Every run is within a tenth of a second of the next. This is key to having a good street car that you can run the 1/4 mile with. Trust me, I really doubt you'd beat the S4 in a 1/4 mile race. Your car is a pig. [:p] From a roll, I don't doubt you'd beat me. My S4 is nothing special upstairs. I'm not stupid either, that's why I won't race you from a roll for money. That's what I have the Supra for. [:)]

You're correct in that the S4 is pretty limited to a certain point. They are crazy expensive to both mod and work on and then the gains aren't even anything to write home about. I'd NEVER buy an S4 to mod; it's just not worth it. The only reason why I have the blue car is because I got a super killer deal on it with all the work already done and I know I could always make my money back on it if I ever wanted to. And, because people sleep on it on the street. I've had a good 10-15 money races with it and haven't lost a single one. The winnings add up fast. [;)]

[Innovator]

Originally posted by 11SecS4
That's street racing. If you're afraid of breaking drivetrain components or bogging off the line, you don't really have a good platform to work with. My S4 runs consistently at the track and does not break. Every run is within a tenth of a second of the next. This is key to having a good street car that you can run the 1/4 mile with. Trust me, I really doubt you'd beat the S4 in a 1/4 mile race. Your car is a pig. [:p] From a roll, I don't doubt you'd beat me. My S4 is nothing special upstairs. I'm not stupid either, that's why I won't race you from a roll for money. That's what I have the Supra for. [:)]

You're correct in that the S4 is pretty limited to a certain point. They are crazy expensive to both mod and work on and then the gains aren't even anything to write home about. I'd NEVER buy an S4 to mod; it's just not worth it. The only reason why I have the blue car is because I got a super killer deal on it with all the work already done and I know I could always make my money back on it if I ever wanted to. And, because people sleep on it on the street. I've had a good 10-15 money races with it and haven't lost a single one. The winnings add up fast. [;)]

The VR4 ran 11.3s when my brother drives it... at the cost of roasting my clutch. The traps are always over 120.

When I put the Eagle F1 tires on my car, I ended it's 1/4 mile career. It was't until then that things started to break, because I was always able to get all four wheels to spin with my Kumhos, absorbing the shock. The Eagles are like f*cking glue on the track surface, even when I go through the water .

[10SecS4]

That sucks. I run drag radials on all 4 corners and haven't broken a single thing on the launch. Have pulled some high 1.5/low 1.6 60fts too. I wonder why nothing ever breaks? *knocks on wood*

[MKGIY]

This is good, keep them coming.

Mike

[Innovator]

Originally posted by 11SecS4
That sucks. I run drag radials on all 4 corners and haven't broken a single thing on the launch. Have pulled some high 1.5/low 1.6 60fts too. I wonder why nothing ever breaks? *knocks on wood*

Torsen vs Viscous coupling for one. Another 100 ft/lbs for another. Shitty Getrag tranny lastly.

Either way, you're right about the car being a pig off the line , but there are many 10 second VR4s in the country. It takes a good driver more than mods BTW. I can easilly keep up with almost any sport bike if you can believe that. They sometimes get the jump, but I always seem to reel them in[:)]

[abuC]

Originally posted by Innovator


There is a good chance that my V is as fast as your Supra, but I would need to know what you're running to keep it fair. [:)]

I doubt it, a bolt on kit for a Supra could be anything from a Sp57 on stock injectors (480whp) all the way up to a T51R SPL (900rwhp)....You're better off racing the S4.

[$teady$upreme]

this is so damn interesting...

innovator, do u have any vids?? since 11sec showed his already.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by abuC
I doubt it, a bolt on kit for a Supra could be anything from a Sp57 on stock injectors (480whp) all the way up to a T51R SPL (900rwhp)....You're better off racing the S4.

My car makes 475 to the wheels, and 500 ft/lbs using a 30% driveline loss. It weighs 3800 lbs dry , and 4100 with me in it with a full tank of gas. But it's geared very well for high speeds. 80 MPH in 6th gear is only 2500 rpms. There is no doubt the Supra can be made much more powerful, but it hasn't really happened to me yet, where I've been smoked by a Supra.

No vids because I'm never at the track.

The car is extremely fast once moving, and it literally blows a stock 1996 Viper away after 100 MPH and is fairly even with it before that. ZO6 vettes are not even worth racing in stock form.

I've had sport bikes follow me for miles just to find out how the hell I was able to keep up with them.

What can I say, I love my pig VR4[:p]

[abuC]

Originally posted by Innovator
My car makes 475 to the wheels, and 500 ft/lbs using a 30% driveline loss. It weighs 3800 lbs dry , and 4100 with me in it with a full tank of gas. But it's geared very well for high speeds. 80 MPH in 6th gear is only 2500 rpms. There is no doubt the Supra can be made much more powerful, but it hasn't really happened to me yet, where I've been smoked by a Supra.
[:p]

You're only running 120mph traps, BPU Supras with stock turbos have done that. You're barking up the wrong tree if you set up a race from a roll with a Supra that has a "basic turbo kit". If this guy is running a 11.5 @ 120mph with an S4 and thats basically his daily driver, what exactly do you think his Supra can do.....

[Innovator]

Well, I said it traps over 120, and it's very temp dependant. I'ts trapped at 127 when it was colder out. In the summer, 120-122 is average

I've beaten BPU Supras several times by a decent margin, and the margin gets bigger as the top speed increases. My engine really wakes up at higher rpm, becuase I've messed with the cam timing a bit[;)] There was a slight loss at lower rpms, but it didn't really bother me, since I keep the revs up when I want max power, and to keep the turbos ready to spool instantly.

My problem is launching. I've been to every major driving school and what not, and I still can't launch my VR4 for shit. It's not my shifting and driving skills that are lacking.

I'll pull a 1.5 60ft time, then bog the shit out of it, yet I'll still trap at 120 or close to it. The Fidanza flywheel only made it harder for me to launch. My brother can click out low 11's, not even running the engine at it's full bost potential. I can only get low 12's with more boost
[:o]

Up here though, it's king of the beasts on the open road. There are no Supras up here at least that can pass me, and most of the time I'll pull on them by several car lengths until 120, after which seems to be where I really smoke them badly.

No doubt though, Supras have *far more* potential than my car does, but there just aren't any up here that have gotten to that point yet. If there is one eventually, it'll probably be one that I build for one of my customers. I have no interest for them because AWD is heaven and earth for me.

[10SecS4]

LOL, you went to driving schools to learn how to launch your VR4? Are you shittin me? I didn't even know any such driving schools existed!

It's clear that the cars up in Albany can't compare to the cars we have down here in Westchester, Rockland, NYC, and NJ. I've beaten plenty of sport bikes myself, but I know that's only because none of them could ride for shit. The rider of a bike is 10x more important than the driver of a car. I raced my friend's brother's GSXR-750 the other night in my S4 and it was a bloody massacre. It's a pretty much stock bike but he's a good rider... Went 10.3 @ 138 with it and that's only a stock 750... No offense, but if you made the trip down here, you'd get embarrassed by both my Supra and his bike. Both trap well over what the world's fastest VR-4 traps at IIRC.

If you're not into launching and drag racing like you've said at the beginning of this thread, why do you consider AWD "heaven and earth?" You DO know that a properly setup RWD automatic car will more often than not put the hurtin on anything AWD, right??

Later,

Marc

[vladbe]

All I can say is wow. What a interesting match. My bets on 11secs4. True about the rwd cars smoking awd.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by 11SecS4
LOL, you went to driving schools to learn how to launch your VR4? Are you shittin me? I didn't even know any such driving schools existed!

It's clear that the cars up in Albany can't compare to the cars we have down here in Westchester, Rockland, NYC, and NJ. I've beaten plenty of sport bikes myself, but I know that's only because none of them could ride for shit. The rider of a bike is 10x more important than the driver of a car. I raced my friend's brother's GSXR-750 the other night in my S4 and it was a bloody massacre. It's a pretty much stock bike but he's a good rider... Went 10.3 @ 138 with it and that's only a stock 750... No offense, but if you made the trip down here, you'd get embarrassed by both my Supra and his bike. Both trap well over what the world's fastest VR-4 traps at IIRC.

If you're not into launching and drag racing like you've said at the beginning of this thread, why do you consider AWD "heaven and earth?" You DO know that a properly setup RWD automatic car will more often than not put the hurtin on anything AWD, right??

Later,

Marc


I went to driving schools to improve my skills at Limerock, where real drivers go to prove their skills [:p] My point was despite how well I drive, launching is my weakness.

Now think about it Marc. Why would I only buy AWD vehicles? Where do I live? In Florida? No, I live in Upstate NY, where we get lots of snow, and there are hills and mountains. So it would be foolish for me to buy a Supra if I wanted to drive it year round, which I do. I can't let a great car sit in my garage over the winter and make payments on it. It kills me. I just sold my 2002 M3 for that very reason.

Maybe if I were a wealthier single guy like you that obviously must work even harder for a living than I do since you appear to have achieved much more than I have at nearly half my age, I'd have the money to do that. But me, with two kids and one coming soon, and a new house, I have to pick my pleasures with more conscience, not that I don't indulge at times.[:)]

The cars up here tend to be more practical cars. There are a few extravagant cars, Vipers, Porsches, MBs etc. But they just don’t have what it takes, or the desire to turn their cars into Frankenstein like I did to my VR4. 4X4s and SUVs are far more popular up here, so they dominate the populous. There are some pretty damn expensive SUVs rolling around here, so peeps aren't afraid to spend their money on cars, but they don’t buy sports cars as often as those who can use them more often..

It's mostly the younger crowd that spends money on making cheaper cars faster. Most of these guys are college students, and use there own money, derived from odd jobs to pay for their mods. These poor guys will run around in the winter with 235-40 18 summer tires in the winter, because they can't afford snow tires, or new tires for their stock rims. Then you'll have the occasional rich kid whose parents will flip the bill for anything, and they drive the really desirable cars to modify, like BMW's Audis, Porches, etc. But things come too easily for them, so they tend to be 'know it alls' and too cocky, and I can't stand to deal with them. They are always trying to overcompensate for the fact that they've achieved nothing on their own by having the best and the fastest. But again, that's the exception. Most of the peeps I deal with are totally cool and appreciative of the work we do at my shop.

I appreciate you trying to teach me the difference between AWD and RWD on the track, but I assure you, that's not necessary. I just like what I like, and my car is plenty fast enough to get me in trouble on the track or off. If somebody wants to build themselves a fast Supra, I can do that too, but AWD is my platform of preference.

Funny how I went off on such a tangent. I just wanted to win a few grand smoking your S4





[:)]

[EC Motorwerks]

Hey Rick, Its Kevin w/ the yellow '97 A4. I wil attach a pic to this thread. But I just opened up my own business doing aftermarket car products for european cars. Anyway, you should help me in making my car a beast [:D] Sorry for the thread hi-jack guys.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/Euro_Addict/front_right-1.jpg

[I am armed]

First thing first. Kevin, GET SOME RIM'S ON THAT BIATCH! ;-)

Second things second. I got my bread on 11secS4.

[EC Motorwerks]

Originally posted by I am armed
First thing first. Kevin, GET SOME RIM'S ON THAT BIATCH! ;-)
11secS4.
Feel free to donate to the wheel fund [:D] Im too damn picky w/ wheels. So I roll stock biish! [:D]

[INTMD8]

So a VR4 with 475/500 to the ground, 4000+ pounds and traps in the 120's is king of the highway?

Fair enough.


I guess the Zo6's/Vipers/supras/motorcycles are a little quicker around here.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by INTMD8
So a VR4 with 475/500 to the ground, 4000+ pounds and traps in the 120's is king of the highway?

Fair enough.


I guess the Zo6's/Vipers/supras/motorcycles are a little quicker around here.

King of the hiway is just an expression. It's my king of the hiway. Is that better sir?

It's all in the gearing and cam timing. But yes, I'm sure there are faster cars, like your twin turbo SS, but there aren't any up here.

As far as the ZO6 goes, in stock form, they are absolutely no match for my car. The Viper is a fairer match, but top end, I still pull on them.

120's are my traps, but beyond that, if I keep my EGT's down, I can really pull hard beyond 120. I just drop it into forth, and away I go. I've had the car to 175 according to the speedo, and that was at 6500 rpms in 5th gear, with 6th to go. EGT's are the problem though, because if I tune the car for max power at the top of third gear, the EGT's get too high as I get to the top of fourth. This is the problem with piggyback computers.You have to keep fiddling with the AF, depending on what you are doing.

This winter, I am rebuilding the engine .100 over with forged pistons and the works. Then, I may consider a 100 shot of N2O, because my pistons are cast as of now. I will also be switching to a TDO5 turbo, which will break the HP barrier I've hit with the TDO4 based snails, which is pretty much where I'm at now.

The valve seals are starting to go, and my compression is down on a few cylinders, but with 90K of total abuse, I'm still happy with the way it runs[:)] Of course, there is alway room for improvement, and that is my intention. My goal is 650 to the wheels with turbos alone, and I should have no problem doing that with twin TD-05 20G turbos and headers to match.

I already have purchased the AEM stand alone, and that will really give me total control of timing and AF and many more ponies, but I am waiting until my dyno is installed, and my engine to be redone before attempting to tune it . At that point, I'll race his Supra without any conditions[:D]

[vladbe]

That twin turbo a kit or callaway, lingefelter? How did you put that together? Just wondering sounds really cool with almost 900hp.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by Euro_Addict
Hey Rick, Its Kevin w/ the yellow '97 A4. I wil attach a pic to this thread. But I just opened up my own business doing aftermarket car products for european cars. Anyway, you should help me in making my car a beast [:D] Sorry for the thread hi-jack guys.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/Euro_Addict/front_right-1.jpg

Yes, you had mentioned that to me when were down last. I wish you the best of luck with it.

Let me know if I can help you with anything. As you know, I have all the toys, and I'll have a new dyno shortly. If you need any suspension installs or alignments, I can align cars with practically 1/2" of ground clearance with up to 26 inch wheels. Same for mounting tires.

Give me a call next week. I'd like to talk to you about the plans for my new shop.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by I am armed
First thing first. Kevin, GET SOME RIM'S ON THAT BIATCH! ;-)

Second things second. I got my bread on 11secS4.

On which car? His S4 or his Supra?

[I am armed]

Kevin of ECM motorwerks, not 11secS4. :)

[Innovator]

Originally posted by I am armed
Kevin of ECM motorwerks, not 11secS4. :)

I know Kevin as one of my customers, and Marc from his needing a tap I had for his Aquamist which I mailed to him.

I'm sure Kevin will do well, because he seems like a nice guy. I'm not so sure about Marc[:D] JK

[EC Motorwerks]

Originally posted by Innovator
Yes, you had mentioned that to me when were down last. I wish you the best of luck with it.

Let me know if I can help you with anything. As you know, I have all the toys, and I'll have a new dyno shortly. If you need any suspension installs or alignments, I can align cars with practically 1/2" of ground clearance with up to 26 inch wheels. Same for mounting tires.

Give me a call next week. I'd like to talk to you about the plans for my new shop.
Maybe we could set up a deal on suspension install's if i send all my customers in the area to you to have it done. Cant wait to see the new dyno. That will be a huge hit in the area.

[INTMD8]

Innovator- Sounds like you've got a good combo. I'm just suprised that the car is good on the highway and poor at launching and not the other way around.


vladbe- I posted some info about the car in this thread-


http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17115


I did fabricate hard induction pipes to replace the ghetto-fabulous orange silicone ducting in the pics.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by Euro_Addict
Maybe we could set up a deal on suspension install's if i send all my customers in the area to you to have it done. Cant wait to see the new dyno. That will be a huge hit in the area.

I'm sure we can come to a mutually profitable agreement on installations. I work with several people that way.

The dyno will be going into my new building, because as you know, I'm already at capacity with equipment. We are currently in negotiation about a 10,000 sq/ft building down the road that will allow me to do all the things I want to, and then some. I will be keeping the shop I have as well.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by INTMD8
Innovator- Sounds like you've got a good combo. I'm just suprised that the car is good on the highway and poor at launching and not the other way around.


Well, the problem is getting the turbos spooled fully when I launch it. I can achieve this only by roasting the clutch , because wheelspin is not really an option, unless I drop the clutch at over 5K. When I went up in turbine size, lag was much more of an issue, so launching was even harder. Then, I put this aluminum flywheel in, and I hated it. It made the engine unbalanced, and the engine lacked the centrifical force it had with the cast flywheel. So, I put the heavy cast one back in, and the drivability is much better, and the engine runs smoother.

My Kumhos would spin no problem, and I was able to launch pretty well with them. But after the installation of the Egale F1 I'm always fearful of snapping another output shaft, so I gave up on the 1/4 mile, for now anyway . Nothing breaks if you don't launch it, regardless of how much HP you're laying down..

Once spooled though, or over 3500 rpm, the turbos come on lightning fast, and the car just jets away with amazing thrust. That's why it's better on the hiway. It's just a no brainer, compared to a tough launch. I guess I'm just a p*ssy[:o]

BTW, that turbo system you fabbed is really nice. I'll bet it hauls some magor ass.[:D]

[pythaguras]

So what's the verdict? U guys racing or what?? I'll be in the area around Middletown. If you guys are goin' let me know, I'll be there.

[Envy]

Newbie to the site, but must say Nice Thread.

I have some friends with Is300's and Supra's, I myself love them as do I the AWD from the S4.

11Sec, Very Impressive S4 you got there, anymore info on your Supra? Seems like the VR4 guy has divulged his stuff


Wish I was able to see this race

[ROUGHEDGES]

Originally posted by Innovator
King of the hiway is just an expression. It's my king of the hiway. Is that better sir?

It's all in the gearing and cam timing. But yes, I'm sure there are faster cars, like your twin turbo SS, but there aren't any up here.

As far as the ZO6 goes, in stock form, they are absolutely no match for my car. The Viper is a fairer match, but top end, I still pull on them.

120's are my traps, but beyond that, if I keep my EGT's down, I can really pull hard beyond 120. I just drop it into forth, and away I go. I've had the car to 175 according to the speedo, and that was at 6500 rpms in 5th gear, with 6th to go. EGT's are the problem though, because if I tune the car for max power at the top of third gear, the EGT's get too high as I get to the top of fourth. This is the problem with piggyback computers.You have to keep fiddling with the AF, depending on what you are doing.

This winter, I am rebuilding the engine .100 over with forged pistons and the works. Then, I may consider a 100 shot of N2O, because my pistons are cast as of now. I will also be switching to a TDO5 turbo, which will break the HP barrier I've hit with the TDO4 based snails, which is pretty much where I'm at now.

The valve seals are starting to go, and my compression is down on a few cylinders, but with 90K of total abuse, I'm still happy with the way it runs[:)] Of course, there is alway room for improvement, and that is my intention. My goal is 650 to the wheels with turbos alone, and I should have no problem doing that with twin TD-05 20G turbos and headers to match.

I already have purchased the AEM stand alone, and that will really give me total control of timing and AF and many more ponies, but I am waiting until my dyno is installed, and my engine to be redone before attempting to tune it . At that point, I'll race his Supra without any conditions[:D]


wait a second, u want to put more horsepower in a car you cant drive now. Are you kidding? No matter what, lauching is a part of racing. If you get smoked by someone at a light do you catch up to them and tell them to race you from a roll to regain your self respect. Your also saying, u ran a low 12 with more boost than your brother? What the hell are you doing at the line? And you claim you can drive other than that. Sorry but my sister can bang it into gear at redline. i think all this is bs. Your saying your car is oohhh so fast. Back it up. you cant make racing on your own terms for every little detail. How about this one. You race him for 2000 bucks off the line. Then race him for 2000 from a roll. That way if your car can back up your words Then you wont lose out. You think he will take you off the line but think you can "smoke" him off a roll. This shittalking is stupid. Now you gonna man out or bitch out. not calling you a bitch its different blah blah blah.
and i remember you from back in the day. Your the guy who worked with awe to design the dts. Then autospeed copied the product after doing the machine work for awe

[ROUGHEDGES]

i forgot but i would really like to know your 60 ft times on your 11.3 run. If your saying you ran a 11.3 at 120 that means that you power to weight ratio is problary extremly close to marcs.
to be honest i think it is going to be a close race either way. theres no way you will smoke him. it will be close.
and the 120 trap speed vs your 1/4 time vs claimed hp vs you car weight indicates that your car was launched by your brother very well. u were problary still getting high trap speeds with you low 12 sec runs. no?

[Innovator]

[i]
and i remember you from back in the day. Your the guy who worked with awe to design the dts. Then autospeed copied the product after doing the machine work for awe [/B]

Bla bla bla. Look, I offered to race from a roll, he said no, end of story.

LOL, "I can't drive"

Maybe not in the 1/4 so well, but you'd be amazed how well I do with my heavy pig at Limerock. I have 20 years on most of you guys, and I've been driving fast cars from day one. 1/4 mile is not as interesting as having other cars next to you as you go around a sharp turn just inches away from another at near 100 MPH. Think the 1/4 mile is a thrill? [rolleyes] More power makes it easier to pull away from the turbo Porches on the straights, that's all. My car needs all the power it can get. Because of it's weight, it doesn't corner quite as well as some others, so I have to make it up with more HP and really good brakes. I can tell you that the Eagle F1's have closed the corner gap a little too.



I'm just not into the 1/4 mile with this car. Simple as that. I want a faster VR4, and it's got nothing to do with anything about the 1/4. I'm in the proccess of building an 1993 RX7 for the 1/4 mile with lots of porting, custom turbos and N20 . That will be a tough act to follow between it's weight and the 600HP to the wheels it will have. And I have no issues launching it, because I know how to deal with launching RWD cars.. With that car, I'll try my luck at the 1/4.

And I was the one who gave AWE the DTS, not the one who worked with them to make it. They made a few design improvements on it however. I'd like to make that clear. Before AWE was given the rights, I had given them to UUC first.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by ROUGHEDGES
i forgot but i would really like to know your 60 ft times on your 11.3 run. If your saying you ran a 11.3 at 120 that means that you power to weight ratio is problary extremly close to marcs.
to be honest i think it is going to be a close race either way. theres no way you will smoke him. it will be close.
and the 120 trap speed vs your 1/4 time vs claimed hp vs you car weight indicates that your car was launched by your brother very well. u were problary still getting high trap speeds with you low 12 sec runs. no?

The car trapped 127 MPH in October, when it was cooler out. That is also when it did the 11.3.

My 60ft times were usually 1.5, but it's after that where I have the ocassional bog. If I let the clutch slip more, I'd get higher 60 ft times, but less bog, and sometimes a faster 1/4 overall. My traps were always a minimum of 120.

[IlovAudIS]

I am sorry but the vr4 would take the cake from a dig or roll. Guess you gotta bring the supra out, hopefully that is no slouch either or its few g's in another bank account.

[7trees]

i can't wait to see this

[Envy]

Originally posted by 7trees
i can't wait to see this

I TOTALLY Agree. But I don't think the S4 guy cares anymore. Hopefully it does happen


-j

[Innovator]

Well, he better make up his mind soon before I pull the engine to freshen it up.

[EVIL-AUDI]

This is still ongoing?

[skene]

What a pissing match this was...

I dont see what the problem is from a 1st gear start.. as long as Innovator is moving at the same pace as 11sec.. then it shouldnt matter.

Rolling starts are done just like NASCAR.. not because they cant launch.. because the tires would rip the car in half.

a 10mph rolling start will give you the same effect as a standstill start.. so whats the problem here?

[ROUGHEDGES]

how many times do you go to street races and race from a roll.
NEVER. If he wants to race someone from a roll for 2k i will call my friend with his GN.

[EC Motorwerks]

Originally posted by ROUGHEDGES
i will call my friend with his GN.
Gremlin?? [:D][:D][:D]

[Ultrasport Steve]

I got money on the Vega! Rick, whats with all the smack talk..you guys gonna race or not? Just launch the thing and let the cards fall as they may. My s4 could launch very good...my current A4 launches like crap...mostly because my clutch is a goner. Anyway, lets see the VR4 against the S4...come on bud!

[ROUGHEDGES]

Originally posted by Euro_Addict
Gremlin?? [:D][:D][:D]

grand national

[XpondS4]

You both need to stay...[cool] and get your metal on that line.

Theres too much talkin bout this...we at least deserve a nice vid to end the worlds longest thread..[rolleyes]

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by Envy
I TOTALLY Agree. But I don't think the S4 guy cares anymore. Hopefully it does happen
-j
You hit the nail on the head.

[Envy]

Originally posted by 11SecS4
You hit the nail on the head.

Figured as much, considering you didn't reply for a while and the VR4 guy talked too much. Any info on that Supra ? You can PM me if you'd like.

-j

[IlovAudIS]

glad someone backed down, no offense but our cars can be made fast especially yours 11sec but its no vr4. My friend has a heavy modified one and it makes my car look like a honduh

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by Envy
Figured as much, considering you didn't reply for a while and the VR4 guy talked too much. Any info on that Supra ? You can PM me if you'd like.
-j
Yeah, it's a red '93 slush box. [:p]

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by IlovAudIS
glad someone backed down, no offense but our cars can be made fast especially yours 11sec but its no vr4. My friend has a heavy modified one and it makes my car look like a honduh
That's only because people like you give S4s a bad name. [rolleyes]

[IlovAudIS]

your right if i had the mods you have I would run 11.6's too...GHEY

[10SecS4]

My car is a lot faster than 11.5. Do you really think I'd post my real best time and then try to get money races? Duh. Only reason why I'm saying this now is because it's obvious nobody on here has the balls to run any of my cars for money.

[Innovator]

Yor car is much faster than an 11.5? What does it do? Low 10's[:D]

Race me from a roll with you super fast S4, and we'll see how fast it really is.

See, from a roll, you won't get the obvious jump on me like you did with the S4 you did on your video of the race.

[Imperial]

alright alright, healthy competition is one thing, let's not descend into pointless name-calling, shall we?

[10SecS4]

Let me see if I have this right:

A) You won't run your VR-4 vs my S4 in the 1/4 mile.

B) You won't run your S4 vs any of my cars.

C) You won't run my Supra in the 1/4 mile or from a roll.

Next thing I know you'll be telling me you'll only race me under a full moon on Friday the 13th with one hand tied behind my back. LOL.

Seriously, what's up with all the "pu$sy like" conditions you've made up? Scared to race my little $5K POS Supra that started life as a flooded NA car? Run what ya brung or shut da fuc k up! [:p]

[skene]

11sec S4.... IIRC that used to be k04 Madness' right?

[$teady$upreme]

^yah, k04 madness's old car...

stop trash talking, let the race begin~

[Innovator]

Originally posted by skene
11sec S4.... IIRC that used to be k04 Madness' right?

Yea, it was Andys car. It was pretty fast too with the Sportec tuning, but it's no match for a VR4 thats even got a mild turbo upgrade. It's a no brainer. I've toasted many KO4 S4 cars by a drastic margin. I don't think the Sportec tuning will make a night and day difference, and it would really have to.

I'd race it from a roll from ANY speed or gear, but I won't launch it aggressively as I'm sure he would.

These cars have a tendency to break the output shaft that goes to the tranfer case, especially with sticky tires and very high torque. I had that happen a few months ago at a cost of 2200 dollars to me, even though I did all the labor. Kormex is working on a new output shaft that is forged that should be able to handle the 500 ft/lbs at the wheels my car makes. Until then...

I would race his Supra, but without knowing what "bolt on" turbo he has, I'd be a bloody fool for racing a much lighter and possibly much more powerful car. To many unknowns. My mods are all on the table.

The race won't happen, because he'll never race me from a roll, and that's the end of it.

I started out helping Marc with something, and now he doesn't like me any more. Boo Hoo[:(]

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by Innovator
Yea, it was Andys car. It was pretty fast too with the Sportec tuning, but it's no match for a VR4 thats even got a mild turbo upgrade. It's a no brainer. I've toasted many KO4 S4 cars by a drastic margin. I don't think the Sportec tuning will make a night and day difference, and it would really have to.
You haven't seen this car under my ownership. I've done several "little" things that have made the car way faster than when Andy had it. One of these things was converting the car from mass air to speed density. The MAF sensor is a HUGE restriction on these cars. I remember when I was on the phone with you asking for the WI tap, you couldn't believe or understand how the S4 could be converted to speed density and demanded pictures. I guess you thought I was lying? Then I sent you the pics along with my timeslips/videos and I never got a response from you. LOL.

I'd race it from a roll from ANY speed or gear, but I won't launch it aggressively as I'm sure he would.
Racing from a roll is for wussies who either can't drive or are afraid of breaking something. [rolleyes] It proves nothing other than who has dumped more money into their car.

These cars have a tendency to break the output shaft that goes to the tranfer case, especially with sticky tires and very high torque. I had that happen a few months ago at a cost of 2200 dollars to me, even though I did all the labor. Kormex is working on a new output shaft that is forged that should be able to handle the 500 ft/lbs at the wheels my car makes. Until then...
What's the point of doing all those mods if you can't even launch the car without fear of breaking a $2200 part? You're ragging on the S4 saying it's no match for a VR-4 with a turbo upgrade, but what good is all that power if you can't even get it down to the ground without breaking shit left and right? My S4 has HUNDREDS of launches on an OEM RS4 clutch and nothing EVER BREAKS. Anybody could buy a $1K shitbox and throw a 400 shot of N2O on it. Doesn't even matter what kind of car it is. It might go fast. Real fast. But it won't go fast for long, that's for damn sure! So what's the point, Rick?

I would race his Supra, but without knowing what "bolt on" turbo he has, I'd be a bloody fool for racing a much lighter and possibly much more powerful car. To many unknowns. My mods are all on the table.
Why would anyone tell you what they have if they're going to be racing for money? You say you've been around racing for 50 years or whatever, yet you don't know something so obvious? I could feed you with BS mods if I wanted to, but what's the point? I run into people like you at the street races all the time. You're not going to race for money, so it's a lost cause.


The race won't happen, because he'll never race me from a roll, and that's the end of it.
Run my Supra in the 1/4 mile. That's RWD vs AWD. So according to you, you have the huge advantage due to the super-cool AWD. I'll even be running STREET tires. Let's set this up.

I started out helping Marc with something, and now he doesn't like me any more. Boo Hoo[:(]
LOL, I never said I didn't like you. I just think you have a slow 3800lb pig that can't even get out of its own way. [:p]

[Innovator]

You don't really think my car is slow, do you?

BTW, I was under the impression that you lose the ABS and traction control when unplugging the MAF. Is there software now that allows the MAP sensor to work alone, and still have ABS and TC? Besides, it's not that the MAF is restricive as much as it is very difficult to get the car to strong with the MAF, as opposed to using just a MAP sensor. There are issues with the DBW that are allieviated by not using the MAF, and of course there is a downside as well.

I had converted my car to speed density, but without a Baro and Temp signal like the OE Karman vortex MAF has, it was too flooky. I had to keep fiddling with the AF settings depending on the weather.

Right now my gutted OE MAF is about 3" of unrestricted flow. The real killer is trying to get cold air to the filter, which is key to making power. I'm working on relocating the air inlet to get the IAT's down more towards ambient.


I am looking into being a REVO dealer in this area, and they are working on this issue with 2002+ cars. They seem to be on the ball lately. I'm slowly moving away from just selling GIAC.

Seriously Marc, mid fall or early spring ,my car will be transformed once again. I have had custom headers made and I will be using two different size turbos to help with fast spool ,yet really be able to produce as much as 30 psi of cool air. Forged pistons and Crower rods, 1 mil oversized valves and more radical cams. It's going to be trick. I'm also punching it out to a 3.1 liter and raising the compression slightly. I also am on the waiting list for the forged output shaft.

I promise I will race you Supra at that time. No conditions.

Until then, the race with the S4 is always on the table, until such time that I pull the engine in about a month.

And one more thing. There are a lot of guys that race their VR4 at the track every week and break nothing. But ultimatley, it ends up f*cking up the car and shortening its lifespan. The same will occur with your S4. Perhaps, unlike me, you don't care. I really want to keep this car for another ten years because really love it. It's the best car I've owned at any price short of a crappy tranmission. I can overlook that though[cool]

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by Innovator
You don't really think my car is slow, do you?

BTW, I was under the impression that you lose the ABS and traction control when unplugging the MAF. Is there software now that allows the MAP sensor to work alone, and still have ABS and TC? Besides, it's not that the MAF is restricive as much as it is very difficult to get the car to strong with the MAF, as opposed to using just a MAP sensor. There are issues with the DBW that are allieviated by not using the MAF, and of course there is a downside as well.

I had converted my car to speed density, but without a Baro and Temp signal like the OE Karman vortex MAF has, it was too flooky. I had to keep fiddling with the AF settings depending on the weather.

Right now my gutted OE MAF is about 3" of unrestricted flow. The real killer is trying to get cold air to the filter, which is key to making power. I'm working on relocating the air inlet to get the IAT's down more towards ambient.


I am looking into being a REVO dealer in this area, and they are working on this issue with 2002+ cars. They seem to be on the ball lately. I'm slowly moving away from just selling GIAC.

Seriously Marc, mid fall or early spring ,my car will be transformed once again. I have had custom headers made and I will be using two different size turbos to help with fast spool ,yet really be able to produce as much as 30 psi of cool air. Forged pistons and Crower rods, 1 mil oversized valves and more radical cams. It's going to be trick. I'm also punching it out to a 3.1 liter and raising the compression slightly. I also am on the waiting list for the forged output shaft.

I promise I will race you Supra at that time. No conditions.

Until then, the race with the S4 is always on the table, until such time that I pull the engine in about a month.

And one more thing. There are a lot of guys that race their VR4 at the track every week and break nothing. But ultimatley, it ends up f*cking up the car and shortening its lifespan. The same will occur with your S4. Perhaps, unlike me, you don't care. I really want to keep this car for another ten years because really love it. It's the best car I've owned at any price short of a crappy tranmission. I can overlook that though[cool] It's now early spring; when are you running my Supra?

[immortal_zeus]

I just wanted to jump in and say that I've thread this entire thread--and I'm looking forward to a satisfying conclusion. [:D] I feel like I've got blueballs waiting for an outcome. [:p]

[AB18]

lol, i cant wait to see this...

[LouF]

Pardon my ignorance, but how can our cars be converted to run solely off MAP, dispensing with the MAF sensor?

[imbudder]

Man, I just read this whole thread like it was a book,,, yet no conclusion....

Well I guess he has his motor done....

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Until then, the race with the S4 is always on the table, until such time that I pull the engine in about a month.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
08-15-2004 07:21 PM

As far as I recall 'Innovator' stated that he would win by "at least 10 car lengths" ............ but wouldn't ya think if he soffined his launch while still holding boost 'so not to break anything' he would have ample time to catch up and win the race? 10 car lengths..... wow, bold!

I may have missed something but didn't Mark agree he would race his supra vs the VR4 from a roll for $3k? what ever happend to that?

as stated, winter is over and its now spring.... cool air makes for good races....

[S4orce2001]

you know what im done reading this pissing contest, both of you are big *****s, the **** from a dig, no a roll, no race this, no race that, shut the **** up and race already, do both one from a dig and one from a roll, **** the vr-4 clutch and learn how to launch that shit, i have never heard so many excuses to race from a ****ing dig with a awd, and 11secs4 cut the bs on "racing from a roll is not a race" why are you racing the IS on a roll..........ok thanks.

[creep]

hah, brought back from the dead.

[Simpply]

kids , kids kids !! Marc why are you being a b8tch ? just race the the guy ! you lose you lose , big fvcking deal ? at least you shut him up ! as for you innovator you sound like a fvcking kid with a civic ! cry me a river I'll race you from a roll with our Dirtymotorsports Imola S4 off a roll anytime for any amount of money against your pos mitsu ! better yet finish building it and race me for big money ! and if you got something for me now , my grand national is reay to rock some eastcoast ass !

[S4orce2001]

Originally posted by Simpply
kids , kids kids !! Marc why are you being a b8tch ? just race the the guy ! you lose you lose , big fvcking deal ? at least you shut him up ! as for you innovator you sound like a fvcking kid with a civic ! cry me a river I'll race you from a roll with our Dirtymotorsports Imola S4 off a roll anytime for any amount of money against your pos mitsu ! better yet finish building it and race me for big money ! and if you got something for me now , my grand national is reay to rock some eastcoast ass !

LOL...........thats the way to do it.[drive] [drive] [race]

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by S4orce2001
you know what im done reading this pissing contest, both of you are big *****s, the **** from a dig, no a roll, no race this, no race that, shut the **** up and race already, do both one from a dig and one from a roll, **** the vr-4 clutch and learn how to launch that shit, i have never heard so many excuses to race from a ****ing dig with a awd, and 11secs4 cut the bs on "racing from a roll is not a race" why are you racing the IS on a roll..........ok thanks. Hey e-ricer, at least I race. You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Why don't you step up to the plate? I'll be down your way in a few weeks for spring break. Let's run for big bucks since you seem to have some deep pockets...

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by Simpply
kids , kids kids !! Marc why are you being a b8tch ? just race the the guy ! you lose you lose , big fvcking deal ? at least you shut him up ! as for you innovator you sound like a fvcking kid with a civic ! cry me a river I'll race you from a roll with our Dirtymotorsports Imola S4 off a roll anytime for any amount of money against your pos mitsu ! better yet finish building it and race me for big money ! and if you got something for me now , my grand national is reay to rock some eastcoast ass ! LOL, I've been ready to do this for a long ass time now. He's the one making up all the excuses. Oh and he wants to run from a roll? LOL, what kind of pu$$y shit is that? 1/4 heads up with a [race] (flagger). Hahahaha. [drive]

[10SecS4]

BTW, I raced the IS300 from a roll because that's all he wanted to do. If it were up to me, it would be 1/4 mile or nothing. Running from a roll is for wussies.

[djkynz]

How bout now? Any new updates for us here....we've all been waiting so patiently, SOMEONE RACE ALREADY!!!! SHEESH. Its now almost april, i assume Innovator, you're motor is out or back in again...blah blah blah. I JUST WANT CLOSURE DAMNIT!!!! Please? If you two dont race, someone at least post another cool street race vid for us to drool over. :)



*Man this thread is like Jesus...dies and then keeps comin back to life*

[10SecS4]

I'm not too far from Lancaster. How much do you wanna run for?

[AB18]

Guys, race at beaver springs, its semi close to lancaster, if you do, ill be there.

[djkynz]

Marc - AHHAHAHAHAHA...NO THANKS...sheesh, all ive got is Stage 2 apr, a borla and some Bailey DVs...not even worth the drive man. Your car is SICK! I WISH i had something to run against ya. besides, i all about the friendly "gentleman's bet". I dont make enough money to bet it on my car. Honestly, dont think i know anyone around this way with something close to yours. I do know there is a Carrera GT sitting in the showroom at AUTOHAUS Lancaster! Maybe you can convince the owner to race you in that ;)


keep the thread ALIVE!!! i love books! ;)

[djkynz]

Honestly, Ive actually never run a quater mile! :( I am curious just to see what it can do but would never race for money. I may go down in late spring/early summer to Maple Grove or Cecil County to try my luck there and see what she can do...im guessing mid 13s? Just an uneducated guess.

[imbudder]

Just sent Inovator an email:

_______________________
Noticed you havnt been back since
08-15-2004 07:21 PM
and wanted to let you know your old thread has been re-awakened and you have some new challanges for the same and greater amounts of money.

As you stated you were pulling your motor to freshin it up way back in Aug so I'm sure 7 months later it should be all ready to rock and roll. Plus you had a lot of time to practice your launch.

Come on back and give us a race for some closure. Whether it be 11SecS4 or anyone else putting up.
____________________________________

[imbudder]

wow, Maple Grove and Cecil County those 'were' my hometown tracks... Maple Grove was the track that got me hooked but we used to go to Cecil every friday for Grudge night to see what our cars were doing and then hop on 95 and go to Philly for some late night racing!

djkynz -> def go!!! its such a blast, Cecil is smaller so you should get more runs in plus you can get away with more there restriction wise...

[djkynz]

PLEASSSSSSEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Simpply]

now I remember , Innovator wanted to race someone here sometime ago too but backed down like little girl . if you ask me Innovator is a b8tch ! money talks BS walks ! I got $5k on any of my cars VS any Joe shmo from here !

[S4orce2001]

hey mark sure ill race you when ever you want to but sorry i dont do the money thing im not that stupid, if you want i can set you up with a tercel for money and i know he talks of big money probably more than what you can handle, and i can also line you up some races that will hand your ass in a silver plater, and ill bring an IS that will let you be 2 cars in front from a dig and leave you behing by the time he is in 3th, just give me a call when you are in S. FL, MIAMI (954) 290 3900. being cocky is not good and if i have big pockets or not is none of your business. i race for fun, called been ***** or what ever but when someone says lets race i dont puss out like you are doing with the vr-4, you said," i raced the IS from a dig b/c thats the only thing he would do" hey buddy thats what the guy with the vr-4 is been trying to tell you, if you know you are going to blow his doors off, what is the diff if is from a dig or a roll, is call been confident with your car. ;)
you might think you have the fastest car out there and i dont think so. yes you have a fast as S4 and i give you that and all the respect for running in the 11's. but dont let the smokes go to your head, just a tip.


REMEMBER GIVE ME A CALL WHEN YOU ARE HERE WE WILL BE WAITHING FOR YOU.

[AB18]

Hes not pussing out, the vr4 dude cant drive so he wanted to roll, ???? who cant floor the gas and shift gears??? thats all rolling is, the start is a main part, there both awd, its fair.

[unknownconfusio]

My car makes 475 to the wheels, and 500 ft/lbs using a 30% driveline loss.[B] It weighs 3800 lbs dry , and 4100 with me in it[B]

Hold on one freaking second... you weigh 300 POUNDS!!!

maybe thats why he is affraid to race from a dig.[:D]

sorry to be mean but... Damn no wonder shit breaks.

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by S4orce2001
hey mark sure ill race you when ever you want to but sorry i dont do the money thing im not that stupid, if you want i can set you up with a tercel for money and i know he talks of big money probably more than what you can handle, and i can also line you up some races that will hand your ass in a silver plater, and ill bring an IS that will let you be 2 cars in front from a dig and leave you behing by the time he is in 3th, just give me a call when you are in S. FL, MIAMI (954) 290 3900. being cocky is not good and if i have big pockets or not is none of your business. i race for fun, called been ***** or what ever but when someone says lets race i dont puss out like you are doing with the vr-4, you said," i raced the IS from a dig b/c thats the only thing he would do" hey buddy thats what the guy with the vr-4 is been trying to tell you, if you know you are going to blow his doors off, what is the diff if is from a dig or a roll, is call been confident with your car. ;)
you might think you have the fastest car out there and i dont think so. yes you have a fast as S4 and i give you that and all the respect for running in the 11's. but dont let the smokes go to your head, just a tip.


REMEMBER GIVE ME A CALL WHEN YOU ARE HERE WE WILL BE WAITHING FOR YOU. Anyone can play the "friends" game. I'll be sure to bring my uncle's sister's nephew's cousin's brother's top fuel funny car to your local street races. Do you have something for that? What a joke you are.

You insulted me when I'm the one who races around here and posts tons of videos. Then when I call you out on your bullshit, you pu$$y out and cop out behind "I don't race for money." So why talk smack on here then if YOU can't back it up. And when I say YOU, I mean just that -- YOU -- and not your friends.

Now you're talking about having respect for my S4? Well you certainly didn't show respect a few hours ago when you called me a big *****s and that I should shut the **** up (see your post a few posts up). Do you not remember that? Well it seems like you're the one who's backing down now. Pu$$y.[down]

[AB18]

Hey S4orce2001, my step sisters mother in law, on her uncles side, well her god mothers sisters aunt, on my great uncle jerrys side, has a 5 sec car, If you want we can set something up.

[Audi S4 Turbo]

well reguardless of whos is faster " i still have my money on 11sec" i would much rather take an Audi over a Mitsu any day!! especially an s4!! its got looks, feel, the name, luxury, etc over the vr-4! i rest my case! but good job on the vr-4 it sounds fast! but Audi dominates! but like you said you have an S4 also, so invest your money into that!

[S4orce2001]

Mark what i said in my first post was to the point of you guys need to stop talking all this crap and race, one from a dig and one from a roll and everyone would be happy.
also im not backing out from you coming down here and racing me, i never said that i would not, but if the only way you race is for money, than im sorry b/c i dont, plain and simple. now if you think that im a joke, i really can give 2 shits. lots of people have a big mouth in the web, but thats b/c they are behind a screen, i bet that you would not disrespect me like you are doing, in person, and i put money on that any day of the week, but this is not what we are talking about RIGHT. now going back to the subject, if i offended you on my first post, it was not my intension, like i said before, is just a word that i used, probably should of used something else, to say "cut the crap and race if not shut up", and that was meant to any of you. hope this can clear up the miss understanding.

also about cars, i can bring a f-150 that runs 10's, hatch civic that runs 10's, porsche 996 that runs 9's, evo that runs 11's, couple of IS300 that run 10's, jap spec supra on the 11's or a SC SMG E46 M3, i can even try to convince my boy mike to talk to his dad Ross from ROSS ENGINEERING to bring all his 4 cars, 2 top fuels running 5's, one mustang running 7's and his little viper, running 10's. also my next door friend has a 9's mustang.

not to say that i will race you too, but not for money, and if you call this backing out then sorry.

[S4orce2001]

Originally posted by AB18
Hes not pussing out, the vr4 dude cant drive so he wanted to roll, ???? who cant floor the gas and shift gears??? thats all rolling is, the start is a main part, there both awd, its fair.

and i agree with you, anyone can do that, but my point was that if the vr-4 only wants to run from a roll, i would say ok if we run first from a dig, and no one would be pissed, never meant to say that mark pu ssyng out what i try to say was that he has run before from a roll why not now, now if the vr-4 is such a wack a s s then just drop everything. if you know he is for real he would have run from a dig, especially on a AWD car, and everyone and there mother knows that, EVEN ME.

[S4orce2001]

Originally posted by AB18
Hey S4orce2001, my step sisters mother in law, on her uncles side, well her god mothers sisters aunt, on my great uncle jerrys side, has a 5 sec car, If you want we can set something up.


thats cool............i guess..............[;)]

[DRA4]

I think 11secS4 has the upper hand here, what wussy would race from a roll only, if your car is fast, it is fast, so race and see the outcome. From the video, you can tell the S4 is faster.

[Innovator]

Guys, get a life ok. I sold the car and now I have a 2003 Corvette ZO6 with a blower and 3:73 gears. I'm in a totally diiferent league as far as power goes. My VR4 was no match the Vette, and the S4 was no match for the VR4. I don't give a rats ass what you have done to it.

And as for the roll, I wasn't about to trash a 4000 tranny to prove a point . What matters to me is what I know to be the truth, and not winning a pissing match with peeps whose cars are the only representation of penis size.

Either way, get over it.

[Innovator]

Originally posted by unknownconfusio
Hold on one freaking second... you weigh 300 POUNDS!!!

maybe thats why he is affraid to race from a dig.[:D]

sorry to be mean but... Damn no wonder shit breaks.

Dry means without gas.....

[10SecS4]

Rick, I knew you'd puss out. What a joke.

[imola_Jon]

Originally posted by Innovator
Guys, get a life ok. I sold the car and now I have a 2003 Corvette ZO6 with a blower and 3:73 gears. I'm in a totally diiferent league as far as power goes. My VR4 was no match the Vette,

As far as the ZO6 goes, in stock form, they are absolutely no match for my car.

I'm sure a blower and different gearing does produce a bunch of HP compared to stock, but I doubt it would put you into a different league vs. your VR4. That is if your VR4 really ate up Z06s like you stated before.

I have no idea who would win any of the proposed races, but it seems like you always have an excuse.

[10SecS4]

By his own admission, he couldn't drive an AWD VR-4; can you imagine him behind the wheel of a blown Vette? [rolleyes]

[ECA4]

Hey 11sec, you should come down to show and go April 10th at Englishtown. I have a friend whos K04'd and running on Dahlback software, it would be an interesting race the only thing is I don't know if he races for money.

[cj-S4]

Wow, the things that go on in here when I'm out for a day or two. I read the last 2 pages, but it all seems like a "I can shoot a bigger load than you party"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/cj-s4/gif/jerkit.gif

Anyway nice vids.

[10SecS4]

Is your friend's car red?

[10SecS4]

Originally posted by Innovator
Guys, get a life ok. I sold the car and now I have a 2003 Corvette ZO6 with a blower and 3:73 gears. I'm in a totally diiferent league as far as power goes. My VR4 was no match the Vette, and the S4 was no match for the VR4. I don't give a rats ass what you have done to it.

And as for the roll, I wasn't about to trash a 4000 tranny to prove a point . What matters to me is what I know to be the truth, and not winning a pissing match with peeps whose cars are the only representation of penis size.

Either way, get over it. Yesterday you're talking about it hitting 0-60 in under 4.0 seconds with the traction control on (what a Z06 can do stock) and today it's blown with 3.73s?

Sure sounds like your Z is stock to me! Looks like you've just been caught in more BS.

Supercharged Z06 and 3.73s my ass... (http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?p=2764623#post2764623)

[cj-S4]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/cj-s4/gif/bebored.gif Thats interresting, I would have guessed that. But you researched it? Nice,,LOL

[cj-S4]

Did you miss the end of his paragraph,,

"Oh, did I mention that it had complete Lingenfelter upgrades?"

Or did he just edit when you posted this?

[cj-S4]

Nevermind I really don't care, this thread is going nowhere fast. Nice vids, BTW.

[10SecS4]

Yeah, I saw that. I'm assuming he has the Lingenfelter floor mats and air filter.