S5 vs 335i VIDEO

[Queens4Banger]

I hope this isn't a repost. Fifth Gear (British automotive program) takes the S5 around the track against a 335i http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a4PPnOju34

[Howard Hughes]

God that chick was annoying.... give me Clarkson...

[smithm5]

great clip..jsut watched teh show!

[allen@simplytire]

That sucks... how can a RWD car outhandle a Quattro?

[jcll2002]

"three three five"

thats annoying

[Johnnie]

That sucks... how can a RWD car outhandle a Quattro?


yeah... also i thought the s5 was lighter than the 335[confused]

[raulg_usa]

yeah... also i thought the s5 was lighter than the 335[confused]

BMW 335i: Unladen (EU) = 1600 (1615) Kg
Audi S5: Unladen (Directive 80/1268/EEC EU) = 1630 Kg

First: I hate that women, never liked her since her first appearance in the show.

Second: She was probably afraid to start from 0mph since she did the test runs from high speed. Nobody tells us she had the same speed when crossing the START line with both cars, I find that at least confusing. I know it's hard to match the mph from 2 cars at high speed at the same line, even when you have the cars side by side, what about when u don't?

Third: she said she can't really feel the S5, how can she drive it properly if she can't adjust to different cars?

[raulg_usa]

That sucks... how can a RWD car outhandle a Quattro?

She is a women.

Just kidding. She might be an excellent driver, but I just can't get over that rolling/high speed start. Probably she can't launch a quattro properly. And she IS a women.

[cabelooo]

bull fucking shit

[vinny.dtw]

different forum, different responses. Its just a little comparison duo. But I do agree that the girl wasn't driving it in equal conditions.

[A4_Mike]

I would like to see how that comparison would have turned out with Tiff Needell behind the wheel.

[J@RO]

I would like to see how that comparison would have turned out with Tiff Needell behind the wheel.

Indeed Sir. [drive]

[Militant-Grunt]

Well first of all guys, the 335i is underrated as fuck, they're not 300hp like BMW claims, its closer to 340hp. Then second of all, shes a better driver than all of us here, and has been driving for a very very long time, she can really handle a car. I'd take a 335i over a S5 anyday.

[Anthony]

yeah... also i thought the s5 was lighter than the 335[confused]

The AWD version of the 335 Coupe is indeed heavier than the S5. They compared the RWD version.

[Calabria]

Well first of all guys, the 335i is underrated as fuck, they're not 300hp like BMW claims, its closer to 340hp. Then second of all, shes a better driver than all of us here, and has been driving for a very very long time, she can really handle a car. I'd take a 335i over a S5 anyday.
335 + chip/exhaust/intake = 400+whp/400+wtq...[;)]

[Tinman]

the BMW is made to handle. the engine sits back behind the wheels and it lighter than the one in the Audi. Audi has always pushed their engines to the front of the car hanging over the wheels. This allows for more interior spacer for passengers, but is not the best thing for the handling of a car.

the main benefit of quattro is the safety to make mistakes and not be off the track. if you aren't careful with a RWD car, you'll push it too hard around a turn and spin it into the wall. in a quattro car, if you push it too hard, it'll plow. just let off the gas, the wheels will come back into control, and you can continue through.

it's not surprised that the 335 beat it.


L8

[KokujinTensai]

the BMW is made to handle. the engine sits back behind the wheels and it lighter than the one in the Audi. Audi has always pushed their engines to the front of the car hanging over the wheels. This allows for more interior spacer for passengers, but is not the best thing for the handling of a car.

the main benefit of quattro is the safety to make mistakes and not be off the track. if you aren't careful with a RWD car, you'll push it too hard around a turn and spin it into the wall. in a quattro car, if you push it too hard, it'll plow. just let off the gas, the wheels will come back into control, and you can continue through.

it's not surprised that the 335 beat it.


L8

Ummmm. The S5 has a new Modular Longitudinal Platform that places the engine and transmission further back behind the axle and helps stretch the wheelbase without lengthening the car's exterior dimensions. The engine mounting position over the front axle, in favor of the powertrain being located behind the front axle - in an effort to achieve a more even weight distribution (55/45) between the front and rear wheels.

So no its not like traditional Audis. Audi claims that all new models will favor this geometry

And in all the reviews i've read and videos i've seen, i have yet to see the 335 or any other car 'beat' it.

[hyethug000]

so handling wise you guys think its right to say that the bmw out handles the s5???

[enigma1406]

I don't trust Vicky's opinion or driving. I'd trust Tiff's though.

[EuroA4]

The AWD version of the 335 Coupe is indeed heavier than the S5. They compared the RWD version.


This is the biggest problem with this comparison...not to mention the rolling starts...

[KokujinTensai]

so handling wise you guys think its right to say that the bmw out handles the s5??? No.


I don't trust Vicky's opinion or driving. I'd trust Tiff's though. Yes.

[raulg_usa]

so handling wise you guys think its right to say that the bmw out handles the s5???

I honestly don't think so.

[enigma1406]

This is obviously from the new season...does that mean this is also the episode with Tiff in the Veyron?!

[Queens4Banger]

This is obviously from the new season...does that mean this is also the episode with Tiff in the Veyron?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnAaKlWqTco

[AudiSportB5S4]

Well first of all guys, the 335i is underrated as fuck, they're not 300hp like BMW claims, its closer to 340hp. Then second of all, shes a better driver than all of us here, and has been driving for a very very long time, she can really handle a car. I'd take a 335i over a S5 anyday.

+1... i agree. although the S5 is nice, i miss having rear wheel drive sometimes. if the 335 becomes a big tuner hit which it probably will it will destroy all these cars they throw at it. i love my twin turbo s4 because i take a lot of cars as is now, b4 doing big turbos. turbos are the way to go lol. my m3 that i had b4 the s4 was a lot of fun, but the power band is so much different than in my S. the S5 has some really nice features though and audi always seems to be on top with the interiors so they can have that. but that WOMAN, not WOMEN only 1 was driving ! was an excellent driver, im sure fifth gear wouldnt of had her do the comparison if she wasnt she'd probably take every single one of us on a track lol. maybe except a few, dont freak out !

[German Driver]

That was about right I'd say... Unfortunate but right. I'd still pay than addition $5k for the refined interior however.

[SirDaft1]

Or.... with the Stig.


I would like to see how that comparison would have turned out with Tiff Needell behind the wheel.

[enigma1406]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnAaKlWqTco

Yea, I actually downloaded the episode from http://www.finalgear.com/

Awesome.


That was about right I'd say... Unfortunate but right. I'd still pay than addition $5k for the refined interior however.
That's 5000 pounds. More like $10k.

[4-tified]

That sucks... how can a RWD car outhandle a Quattro?

Well, it's a BMW, they are made to handle quite nicely and they do.
The A5/S5 is a higher priced beauty, that cost's a lot for it's performance.
In the US the S5 will be quite a bit higher priced than the 335i, so the 335i wins yet again.
And, if you want to mod the 335i will be MUCH easier to extract power from.

You guys sound angry about the S5's loss on the track to the 335i, and you take it out on her. [:D]
She did very actually.
If you watch the video closely the S5 takes the corners quite solidly and you can see grip is quite nice as the car never seems to look like it's about to lose it. The 335i swings it's tail quite wildly and I can't believe that her fastest time was done in that manner.
Skidding rear ends and spinning tires don't make for fast forward thrust.
She looks like a competent driver, but maybe she lacks a bit in how to extract the best our of an AWD setup?

[quattrorally]

now make the track wet and the 335 will wet it's pants trying to keep up

[Germanfanatic]

I agree the speed at cross/finish line might not be the same , but 335i is still a better handling car than the S5. 335i might be slower, but don't forget, it's been compared to 'S' car and not an A4. It might be slower, but it's is very close to an S5.

It is sad for Audi that the regular 3 series is as good and even better in some areas than the S5. S cars are made to compete with M’s and not regular 3 series, but the S5 will be no match for the new E92 M3.

So you have this 335i which cost thousands less than the S5, but gives you the similar performance (better in some areas) and will have a better retail value than the Audi after 3 years.

I saw and sat in the the S5 and yes it has a better interior than the BMW but looks wise, I gotta go with 335i. It's agressive and mean.

[4-tified]

I agree the speed at cross/finish line might not be the same , but 335i is still a better handling car than the S5. 335i might be slower, but don't forget, it's been compared to 'S' car and not an A4. It might be slower, but it's is very close to an S5.

It is sad for Audi that the regular 3 series is as good and even better in some areas than the S5. S cars are made to compete with M’s and not regular 3 series, but the S5 will be no match for the new E92 M3.

So you have this 335i which cost thousands less than the S5, but gives you the similar performance (better in some areas) and will have a better retail value than the Audi after 3 years.

I saw and sat in the the S5 and yes it has a better interior than the BMW but looks wise, I gotta go with 335i. It's agressive and mean.

I agree with some things you say. But, "S" cars are NOT to compete with "M" cars. RS is the label you want when taking on an M.
The problem with Audi is that they price their "S" cars much too high for the level of performance they give. Audi seriously needs to reconsider this.
For me, there is no need for an "S" and then an "RS".
The "S" should simply be a higher performance package for the base car it's based on. That way the "RS" is something really special.
The S4 is simply an A4 S-line package with a V8 engine. The S4 gets the nice sport seats that the Euro S-line gets.
So, for the added cost of the S4, you're getting a V8 and some suspension mods. Really, it shouldn't cost as much as it does.

By keeping the "S" cars a higher performance package, Audi wouldn't have to go so high in their RS pricing. They could compete better with the M cars and AMG's in their price to performance groups.

[enigma1406]

I agree with some things you say. But, "S" cars are NOT to compete with "M" cars. RS is the label you want when taking on an M.
The problem with Audi is that they price their "S" cars much too high for the level of performance they give. Audi seriously needs to reconsider this.
For me, there is no need for an "S" and then an "RS".
The "S" should simply be a higher performance package for the base car it's based on. That way the "RS" is something really special.
The S4 is simply an A4 S-line package with a V8 engine. The S4 gets the nice sport seats that the Euro S-line gets.
So, for the added cost of the S4, you're getting a V8 and some suspension mods. Really, it shouldn't cost as much as it does.

By keeping the "S" cars a higher performance package, Audi wouldn't have to go so high in their RS pricing. They could compete better with the M cars and AMG's in their price to performance groups.
For the most part I agree. The RS cars aren't too expensive though.

[raulg_usa]

For the most part I agree. The RS cars aren't too expensive though.

For the last review/test I found with the S5 it was compared to the new M3. Of course the S5 lost, the M3 has 420 hp, built to eat tracks, the S5 is more like a cruiser that looks good and drives good but not as good as the M3. My point is though about the price. It is in Euros, the test was done by a German magazine, they got their S5 at 55,000 and the (new) M3 at 71,000 (of course, with options, base price there is 66,000 euros). That is anywhere from 10k-15k cheaper!

So, the S5 is still priced fairly compared to competition. US S5 start at $50k, the M3 will be around $65k, the 335i starts at 40k. So the S5 is in the middle, that's were I also see the car as a total of track performance/interior/exterior/regular driving quality/etc ...

[KokujinTensai]

Heres something to chew on... the A5/S5 is the first coupe in a decade for Audi. I think they did an outstanding job with the car. No offense guys but you really really have to drive the car in an actual 'audi test ride' to appreciate it. Yes the BMW 3 whatever is a nice car, of course they are. They better be.

The S5 is really amazing. And! Guess what they're gonna only get better. I predict the next generation hands BMW's ass to them. I hope the RS5 redefines the luxo sport coupe. They may have got the 'heavyweight of the world' title back with the V8 M3. The S4's been whipping the M's ass for 10 years now but we'll get the title back with the next iteration Audi GmbH cars

[Germanfanatic]

If you ask me, I don't think they have done an outstanding job. Knowing your competition, they should have done better. An "S' badge car which competes with regular 3 series doesn't qualify for an outstanding job even though it is their 1st coupe in 10 years.

BMW knows how to do it right. This is their 1st turbo motor in 20 years and it is a screamer. Like someone said, it is underated as fuck. 335i is as good as the outgoing E46 M3. That tells you a lot of it's capabilities.

If you bring something back to the market after a long time, you just don't do an O.K job and depend on the next generation to beat the competition.

Another example of BMW... look at the 135i which is supposed to bring back the iconic 2002 memories... that's going to one hell of a car.

I'm glad BMW doesn't do like Mercedes and looks like Audi is doing the same thing... just putting a big motor and some minor suspension and cosmetic changes and slapping a AMG and S badge and calls it a high performance car.

Audi had to bring out the RS4 to beat the M3. Sure the S4's are faster than the M3's but M3 makes up in handling/braking/cornering and steering feel. It is most refined car out there and there's no doubt about it. Sure the new M3's can't be compared with the REAL E30 M3. E30 M3 was born on the race track and it's mission was to win championships and beat it's competition which it did very well... taking more than 1500 victories and still holds the record...

Anyway, my point is Audi should have done a lot better than what they have done here.

I totally agree with 4-tified, the "S" cars need to up their performance to match the M's as the RS are too expensive.

[gabi_s4]

if tif was driving, the audi would have done it faster :)

[QuaTTrings]

The 335 is good value in the area of price vs handling/performance. It's still a half second slower than the S5 to 60mph in this test and although it holds it's value well, it won't be quite as good as this S5. I've already seen discounts on the 335 at my local dealership. I will say that I do think it is a good looking car but the S5 is much more disctinctive with it's more Aston-like proportions. The S5 is so much a better all-around car comparatively speaking. Fully optioned the 335 can come in close to 50k. For the same price (50k) you can get an S5 that is safer, arguably more reliable, will hold its value better, looks better and is better built. Just one look at the body panel gaps (http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/7712audi-s5-bmw-335i-infiniti-g37-2008-comparison-111-med.jpg)is evidence of that. Sit inside and compare components and there is even more evidence. Look at Audi's S5 braking system next to the 335s comparatively inexpensive setup. No wonder the S5 stops far better than the 335. I'm not sure how you think the 335 is more aggressive than the S5 but looks are subjective. I passed on the 335 many months ago to wait for the S5 and I'm 100% glad that I did. [up]

Did anyone see the new M3 vs the S5 on Autobild (http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Sportscars-Der-Schoene-und-das-Biest_416315.html)? Verdict was that the S5 won the test. Yes it was subjective and a lot had to do with price but it tells you that the S5 can hold it's own against the famous M3 also. Just wait BMW lovers when Audi releases the RS5 and new RS4...

http://www.autobild.de/ir_img/37649536_c016c371cd.jpg

I agree the speed at cross/finish line might not be the same , but 335i is still a better handling car than the S5. 335i might be slower, but don't forget, it's been compared to 'S' car and not an A4. It might be slower, but it's is very close to an S5.

It is sad for Audi that the regular 3 series is as good and even better in some areas than the S5. S cars are made to compete with M’s and not regular 3 series, but the S5 will be no match for the new E92 M3.

So you have this 335i which cost thousands less than the S5, but gives you the similar performance (better in some areas) and will have a better retail value than the Audi after 3 years.

I saw and sat in the the S5 and yes it has a better interior than the BMW but looks wise, I gotta go with 335i. It's agressive and mean.

[Vuel Egham]

The 335 is a better motor, no question. 335i + Vishnu software + PROced exhaust = 340whp and 400wtq.

BUT, the S5 is a competitor for the M3. Too bad a lightly modded 335i will outrun the new M3. ;)

[QuaTTrings]

Better motor? I don't think so. If you are talking about the cost vs. tuning ability sure. It is cheap to buy a chip and exhaust for the 335 but then you run into problems getting the power to the ground since the 335 doesn't even have a LSD. One wheel burnouts aren't for me, I'll take Quattro. It will cost more to supercharge the FSI V8 but in stock form it has greater torque and sounds great. This is my plan for the FSI V8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVIIWJPpc2A It won't exactly have the power output of the RS4 but 500bhp should be realistic, and no way that 335 will sound this mean...
The 335 is a better motor, no question. 335i + Vishnu software + PROced exhaust = 340whp and 400wtq.

BUT, the S5 is a competitor for the M3. Too bad a lightly modded 335i will outrun the new M3. ;)

[Vuel Egham]

Have you driven a 335i? Not being a jerk, just a serious question? It is an amazing motor and sounds pretty goods itself. I do love the S5 though. I'd like to have an S5 sitting next to an E62 M3 in my garage.

[QuaTTrings]

Yup multiple times, and came close to ordering it. The dealer still calls me to ask me of my intentions... It's a good car in many ways. Engine note sounds decent, it's smooth but I didn't find the engine explosively fast. I do like the road feel, but I have to say that the way I have modded cars with suspension, etc, it wasn't a big difference from what I'm used to. I would have got the 335 if the S5 wasn't coming out, but I would rather have the S5 now that I have that choice available to me.


Have you driven a 335i? Not being a jerk, just a serious question? It is an amazing motor and sounds pretty goods itself. I do love the S5 though. I'd like to have an S5 sitting next to an E62 M3 in my garage.

[KokujinTensai]

If you ask me, I don't think they have done an outstanding job. Knowing your competition, they should have done better. An "S' badge car which competes with regular 3 series doesn't qualify for an outstanding job even though it is their 1st coupe in 10 years.


I disagree. Have you driven it? Unless youve driven it you dont have all the information. Ive driven them both. Like them both. Prefer the Audi. I feel more connected to the car. In normal driving theyre both great cars. Besides the BMW is powered by a twin-turbocharged, intercooled 3.0-liter inline six loosely based on the engine currently found in the 3 Series and dont give me that first turbo in 20 years crap. Its not difficult to turbo a motor.

Audi hasnt had many coupes over the history of the company. BMW has had dozens. A 'regular' 3-Series would be an N/A straight six

But, i appreciate your opinion

[M power this!]

it's a completely fair analysis. the timed fast lap is a way to see, at speed, which car is faster. not which launches best. most professional racers will go faster in a rwd than an awd, think of all the years racing and which had rwd..........90%??? a real human in the car, at the track will go MUCH faster in the Audi and stay out of the weeds doing so. park the two next to each other, the S5 is INSANE! it's perfect! when you guys see one in person, you'll know what i mean. and i don't care if the 335 can be made much faster, it still looks like a suppository and sounds like ass. a full exhaust, dps, intake and chip.....like the S4 will be in the 400 crank hp area and plenty for my needs. I'll take that car, go up against a chipped 335 at the track and i'll put $$$$ I'm ahead after a 20 min track session. can u say heatsoak? the 335 is a great car, it's just not a better car.......regardless if it's a fraction quicker around the track with a professional driving

[meinblaus4]

If you watch the video closely the S5 takes the corners quite solidly and you can see grip is quite nice as the car never seems to look like it's about to lose it. maybe she lacks a bit in how to extract the best our of an AWD setup?

that's what i was thinking. did she even get the tires to break out?

[meinblaus4]

Have you driven a 335i? Not being a jerk, just a serious question? It is an amazing motor and sounds pretty goods itself. I do love the S5 though. I'd like to have an S5 sitting next to an E62 M3 in my garage.

i'm that guy that needs to drive one. i'm curious about the feel/power. but i have to ask--how was the 2.7 bi-turbo for the first year or two? technology absolutely improves reliability, so i don't see problems with the bmw engine, but for any of the past b5 owners, how was the engine for the first year or two? i have heard from a few guys about their aging engines (broke ass turbos after XXX miles and a few head or piston problems) and i'm curious about how the 335 engine holds up over the years with serious driving.

[AudiBeer]

wow I used o love my audi, but now that I see this video I'm kinda ashamed that I own the damn thing. Well, I guess I'll be nmyway to an M3.

[Vuel Egham]

It will be interesting to see. The motor felt incredible.

[Germanfanatic]

I disagree. Have you driven it? Unless youve driven it you dont have all the information. Ive driven them both. Like them both. Prefer the Audi. I feel more connected to the car. In normal driving theyre both great cars. Besides the BMW is powered by a twin-turbocharged, intercooled 3.0-liter inline six loosely based on the engine currently found in the 3 Series and dont give me that first turbo in 20 years crap. Its not difficult to turbo a motor.

Audi hasnt had many coupes over the history of the company. BMW has had dozens. A 'regular' 3-Series would be an N/A straight six

But, i appreciate your opinion

Well same goes for Audi... they have had dozens of turbos over the years and still BMW's turbo is better than Audi. BMW does engines better than Audi's...

and hey if you like the S5 and you feel "CONNECTED" that's fine, but the fact is BMW is better when it comes to feeling connected...

[toaster]

i feel like people talking about "being connected" don't understand what quattro is...

of course when you have power to all 4 wheels things won't feel as "sharp" and as "connected" that is an inherent truth with quattro. I will tell you with absolute certainty however, that I don't feel nearly as safe in any other car as my audi. in the bmw, when it's wet, all hell breaks loose, when it snows, you can't move, and when it's dry, the car is much less safe than an audi because the grip sucks in comparison to the quattro.

in a dd car, why wouldn't you want the safety on top of incredible performance and an unmatched interior?

and why not have it all for the track too?

audi ftw forever, i say.

[QuaTTrings]

I'd like to see equivalent engines (same number of cylinders) from BMW that can even match Audi's 2.0t, Audi's last RS6 V8TT, and the newest RS6 V10 TT. The RS5 is probably another year away from its introduction, but that will add yet another chapter to Audi's superiority with turbocharging and its lengthy history that dates back to the original 5 cylinder turbocharged 300bhp Sport Quattro of the 80's...

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Audi_News/010__scaled_600_034.jpg


Well same goes for Audi... they have had dozens of turbos over the years and still BMW's turbo is better than Audi. BMW does engines better than Audi's...

and hey if you like the S5 and you feel "CONNECTED" that's fine, but the fact is BMW is better when it comes to feeling connected...

[AudiA4_20T]

ugh this is such an Audi board...

Seriously I love Audi like I bleed Audi Ive gotten all my friends to buy them but they have rediculously bad power/weight ratios... All the A4 guys need chips an exhaust to not get beat by honda civics and the S4 gets beat by the 335i easy... Its sad but true, Audi gets their ass handed to them in power reguards...

The 335i is an amazing machine... It really is... Just like the B5 S4 was amazing... I think thats a good comparison. But then again, only a chipped S4 could keep up with the BMW... if u lay them out side by side BMW wins in many aspects... With respect to interior, Audi > BMW always but Audi seriously needs to step up the game with their power

[LORDOFTHERINGS]

That sucks... how can a RWD car outhandle a Quattro?


It can't!! She just can't drive worth a SHIT!! You can tell that her mind was already set on the Bimmer before she jumped into the S5.

Though the Audi is heavier, if she was driving the car properly, the Audi would have edged out the Bimmer.

[M power this!]

How is BMW making better turbo motors than audi? they're not. they don't make better motors in general. they have twice the problems of Audi, percentage wise. the RS4 is a MUCH better engine than the upcoming 4.0 BMW. it's barely able to make the power of the 4.2, took them a year longer than planned to do so, and now has much less torque.

the A4 competes with the 3 series
the S4 competes with the 335 series
the RS competes with the M series

BMW makes a great car for the masses, for people who care less about refinement or do not mind a dullard of an interior.

[Monizzle]

now make the track wet and the 335 will wet it's pants trying to keep up

as valid as this statement is, I absolutely hate when people say this. Wet or dry the god damn S5 should win hands down. No excuses.

[LORDOFTHERINGS]

ugh this is such an Audi board...


Duh!!!![rolleyes]

[DELUX]

Fifth Gear is a huge Top Gear ripoff and it sucks!

If the Stig did this test we'd have a real result. Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if the 335 won anyway.

[enigma1406]

Fifth Gear is a huge Top Gear ripoff and it sucks!

If the Stig did this test we'd have a real result. Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if the 335 won anyway.

Tiff is on par with the Stig.

[SickAvant]

LET ME DRIVE THAT SHIT. I WILL SHOW HER HOW TO DRIVE>>>>>>>>>>>>>lol

[Maverick]

I am not going to the tracks that often. Audi's interior + refinement + V8 > than bmw's ex/interior and engine issues.

[Hamann]

Is the 335i a better value? It's priced around 39k to start...the S5 at 52k.

[M power this!]

Your at $50,500 base for the S5. That comes with ALOT more standard equipment than a 335. build one with all the stuff standard on an S5 and look at the difference

I already said above MOST drivers will be much faster in a Quattro than a RWD, well here's alittle proof!

http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3442766

[Juliflex]

I think you are all missing that the Audi 'S' cars should compete with the BMW 'M' cars... IMO BMW outperformed Audi ever since the e46... if you dont believe me look at the B5 and e36, the a4 1.8t competed with the 325, the a4 2.8 competed with the 328, the s4 competed with the m3, and the RS4 was in a league of its own... now the a5 3.2 competes with ? (its faster than a 328 but slower than a 335), the S5 with the 335 and the RS5 with the M3...

[4-tified]

the A4 competes with the 3 series
the S4 competes with the 335 series
the RS competes with the M series



Almost.

The 335i IS a 3 series.
Thus the A4 series is the 3 series competition.
A4 2.0T and the 328i
A4 3.2 v6 and the 335i

S4 is a higher performance level, and MUCH MUCH higher priced car BASED on the A4 series. BMW does not have a direct competitor in a series, but they have "performance" packaged 3's. They had an E46 performance package that had a bit more HP, different suspension, altered gearing, etc... Same idea as Audi's "S".

The RS I would agree is where Audi competes with M and AMG.
Unfortunately for Audi, the RS cars are priced way over the equivalent M competition. The RS4 costs way more than an M3.
The S versions are in the M price range, but nowhere near the performance.
Audi needs to stop with the S cars and their over the top pricing.

I'd put the A4 2.0T and V6 as the base A4 series.
Then offer the "S" versions of those cars with added performance such as suspensions, gearing, power boost, etc... with reasonable respective pricing. It would in line with "sport packaged" 3 series.
2.0T-S, 3.2 V6-S

Keep the RS series as the top dog to compete with M and AMG.
Simple and it gives Audi a better pricing structure in which to work.

[4-tified]

Your at $50,500 base for the S5. That comes with ALOT more standard equipment than a 335. build one with all the stuff standard on an S5 and look at the difference



I have, and I've posted on this website.
The S5 is MUCH higher priced when compared to an equivalent optioned 335i.
Same goes for the A5 compared to the 328i coupe.
The A5 compares to the 335i in price to options.
The S5 is again in some lofty price point with performance not beholding it's price point.

There is NOT "ALOT" more standard equipment other than the quattro system.

[4-tified]

I think you are all missing that the Audi 'S' cars should compete with the BMW 'M' cars... IMO BMW outperformed Audi ever since the e46... if you dont believe me look at the B5 and e36, the a4 1.8t competed with the 325, the a4 2.8 competed with the 328, the s4 competed with the m3, and the RS4 was in a league of its own... now the a5 3.2 competes with ? (its faster than a 328 but slower than a 335), the S5 with the 335 and the RS5 with the M3...

Where did you see that the A5 is faster than the 328i coupe?
And, at what price point is that A5 to the 328i?
Audi has a problem, at least for my dollar.

[Juliflex]

Where did you see that the A5 is faster than the 328i coupe?
And, at what price point is that A5 to the 328i?
Audi has a problem, at least for my dollar.
Im just going by the fact that the 328 has 230hp and the A4 is going to have AT LEAST 255HP, seeing as the current A4 3.2 has 255 HP, so it will probably be at least a bit faster, but it is priced higer.
The 328 coupe starts at $35,300 and the A5 V6 should start around $40,000, or so you say...
dont get me wrong, I much rather have a S5 to a 335 but there is no question that BMW is outperforming AUDI dollar for dollar, especially compared to the past.

[M power this!]

Equally equipped 335i stick : $45,500
S5 $50500

civility of a V8
sound of a V8
Interior style and quality
insurance $ of awd

That to me is easily worth the $5k, not to mention Audi has been kicking their butts in safety and are still 2x as reliable.

They're definately comparable cars for the money. Hell if people do not care of fit and finish and just want Speed for their money, look at an STI and save even more!

[biketsai]

About that video, i also felt as if she wanted to choose BMW from the beggining.
That 335i was oversteering a bit through those corners while the Audi was just hugging them.
The 335i is a nice car for sure, but i definately feel like id take the s5 over any bmw any day.
S5=mean!!!
I always feel that Audi's will kill its competitors around the twistys.

[Monizzle]

^^I felt that way as well, she sure as hell talked less during the BMW drive possibly thinking "I really want to concentrate on enjoying this car"...it seemed like she already had her mind made up on the S5 and just blabbered all the way through the drive. Audi does need to lower the price of the S5 tho...so I can afford one. [:D]

Regardless I might not buy it brand new anyway, might just wait for a low mileage used one in a year so I don't get raped by depreciation.

[4-tified]

Equally equipped 335i stick : $45,500
S5 $50500

civility of a V8
sound of a V8
Interior style and quality
insurance $ of awd

That to me is easily worth the $5k, not to mention Audi has been kicking their butts in safety and are still 2x as reliable.

They're definately comparable cars for the money. Hell if people do not care of fit and finish and just want Speed for their money, look at an STI and save even more!

Now we're going to throw safety in there? Reliability? You better check your stats on that one, BMW ranks higher then Audi in reliability.
Fit and finish is exemplary in a BMW as it is in an Audi. The difference is that Audi tends to be a more appreciated design. Still, BMW's fit an finish is right up there.

Civility of a V8? I want my V8's to be screaming at top end and throaty at low speed, not civil.
Have you driven the 335i's inline 6 twin turbo? It's quite civil and smooth as an inline 6 tend to be.
I don't get a discount on my insurance for having quattro in my A4. In fact, the higher price of the quattro results in a slightly higher premium.

As far as price the S5 does cost more and it's overall performance is close to the 335i, but not better.
A 335i with premium, sport, and heated seats is
$45,725

An S5 with the added Bang&Olufson, needed to compared to BMW's Logic7,
along with the "tech pkg." to get adaptive lighting brings the S5 to $53,825.
That includes parking assist with a rear view camera. Take 50% off of that pkg. for that feature and the price comes to $53,025, even though you can't buy the "tech pkg." piece by piece.

Price difference is $7300, not an insignificant amount, but will be willing to pay it.

Maybe the A5 will compare better to the 328i.
A 2.0T A5 would draw even bigger sales.

[QuaTTrings]

We know that Audi builds safer vehicles, as evidenced by the available stats on the subject. Although the current 3 series does pretty well, there is no excuse for the crash results of the current 5 series, not impressive at all considering it's a BMW.

Reliability changes hands between BMW and Audi. I have copies of last years consumer reports ('06) and JD Powers stats that put Audi leading ALL European cars.

I also disagree with fit and finish being as well done as Audi. Audi is in another class. Check out the bumper fitment of the 3 series compared to the S5. Audi is on another level.

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/7712audi-s5-bmw-335i-infiniti-g37-2008-comparison-111-med.jpg

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/cars/pricing/best-worst-in-car-reliability-1005/how-makes-compare/reliabilitysmr.jpg


Now we're going to throw safety in there? Reliability? You better check your stats on that one, BMW ranks higher then Audi in reliability.
Fit and finish is exemplary in a BMW as it is in an Audi. .

[FlyinByB6]

I also disagree with fit and finish being as well done as Audi. Audi is in another class. Check out the bumper fitment of the 3 series compared to the S5. Audi is on another level.


You can't say BMWs fit and finish is not better or on the same level as Audi.. Most Audis when the interior goes through normal wear the interior starts to peel[down].. Is that what you call on another level ??

On another note the 335 is just a amazing car thus why its being compared to the S5(which it shouldn't be if you think about it.)...Before I just go out get the 335 I'm still going to test drive the S5 but the 335 you just get the best bang for your buck in this situation[drive].

[AudiGuy666]

You can't say BMWs fit and finish is not better or on the same level as Audi.. Most Audis when the interior goes through normal wear the interior starts to peel[down].. Is that what you call on another level ??

On another note the 335 is just a amazing car thus why its being compared to the S5(which it shouldn't be if you think about it.)...Before I just go out get the 335 I'm still going to test drive the S5 but the 335 you just get the best bang for your buck in this situation[drive].

I agree.. You do get quite the all around package with the 335i.
I've driven the coupe a couple times and am looking into one now .. it's soo tempting [:p]

[QuaTTrings]

Well, I've had more than a few Audis, and when comparing similar years, yes I do think Audis are in fact on another level. My last A6, A4, and TT were excellent cars and I haven't experienced the peeling that you mention (although I'm not discounting that it didn't happen in your case) To say that "most" Audis have that issue is not accurate.

I'd only get the 335 if the S5 wasn't available. I've looked at a 335 very thoroughly and IMO, no I don't think it compares in build quality or fit and finish to Audi. Look closely at that picture and notice how close the fit is on the rear bumper. I think the picture speaks for itself. Pickup nearly any automotive magazine and they will agree. [up]

I do agree with you that for the price, the 335 is a very good value. I just don't think it is the best in this class. I'm sure more people will think the same, once they start to see the S5s rolling around the streets and highways. [up]


You can't say BMWs fit and finish is not better or on the same level as Audi.. Most Audis when the interior goes through normal wear the interior starts to peel[down].. Is that what you call on another level ??

On another note the 335 is just a amazing car thus why its being compared to the S5(which it shouldn't be if you think about it.)...Before I just go out get the 335 I'm still going to test drive the S5 but the 335 you just get the best bang for your buck in this situation[drive].

[4-tified]

We know that Audi builds safer vehicles, as evidenced by the available stats on the subject. Although the current 3 series does pretty well, there is no excuse for the crash results of the current 5 series, not impressive at all considering it's a BMW.

Reliability changes hands between BMW and Audi. I have copies of last years consumer reports ('06) and JD Powers stats that put Audi leading ALL European cars.

I also disagree with fit and finish being as well done as Audi. Audi is in another class. Check out the bumper fitment of the 3 series compared to the S5. Audi is on another level.



I'm not discussing safety because in the car class we are talking about the cars are safe.
The question if of reliabilty, and fit and finish.
You may not like BMW's styling compard to Audi (I like Audi's better). However, that has nothing to do with quality of materials and construction.
BMW rates right up there with Audi in terms of construction and material quality.

As far as reliability and durability.
The 3 series is almost always listed as a best buy for entry level luxury sport sedans.
Here's a JD powers list:

J.D. Power 2007 Vehicle Dependability Study(VDS)
2007 Nameplate Ranking (Problems per 100 Vehicles) Rank Brand 2007 VDS 1. Buick 145 2. Lexus 145 3. Cadillac 162 4. Mercury 168 5. Honda 169 6. Toyota 178 7. BMW 182 8. Lincoln 182 9. Subaru 192 10. Oldsmobile 196 11. Jaguar 197 12. Acura 207 13. Mercedes-Benz 212 14. Infiniti 215 -- Industry Average 216 15. Jeep 219 16. Pontiac 220 17. Scion 220 18. Ford 221 19. GMC 222 20. Chevrolet 226 21. Hyundai 228 22. Mitsubishi 228 23. Volvo 230 24. Audi 234 25. Dodge 236 26. HUMMER 242 27. MINI 247 28. Chrysler 249 29. Porsche 252 30. Nissan 274 31. Saturn 274 32. Kia 288 33. Mazda 289 34. Volkswagen 298 35. Saab 319 36. Isuzu 322 37. Suzuki 398 38. Land Rover 398

On that list Audi is much farther down the list.
Plus, BMW's E90 3 series came out a bit over 2 years ago and the with a brand new twin turbo engine a bit over a year ago. Even if BMW's 3 series were to show some issues, it would be ok due to potential teething problems.

Oh, and how about a hand for Buick and Cadillac? Nice.

So, Audi is a good brand and it may be showing improvement.
That's great. It could mean our Audi's will sell better used then they have in the past. Still, over the longer term BMW has listed higher than Audi.
And, that is what is more significant. Look at MB, they have had a bad couple of years. Even though they don't usually rank that high anyway, they've fallen to below VW levels in some surveys.

My A4 is not on another level compared to my 3 series.
Both have been very good to me, and both have had some issues.
To me, nothing that has happened has been that extreme.
I like my A4's design and style. Does it drive better than my BMW did?
No, it doesn't and Audi knows that, and the B8 might be helpful in that regard. Still, BMW's have been the more preferred drivers car and their reliability/durability has proved better over the long term.

But, in reality that's nitpicking because Audi and BMW make EXCELLENT cars. And that's the important thing for the enthusiast as we're not so swayed with durability as much as overall performance. As a group we tend to put up with more, sometimes. [:D]

[QuaTTrings]

I'd probably leave safety out of this one too;
Audi is tops: http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx
The Q7 also got 5 starts but I didn't see it listed. No test on A8
Large cars
[U]Audi A6
2008 Ford Taurus with optional electronic stability control
2008 Mercury Sable with optional electronic stability control
Volvo S80

Midsize cars
Audi A4
Saab 9-3
Subaru Legacy with optional electronic stability control

However, I agree 100% with your last statement - Audi and BMW do both make excellent cars. In fact, I would never care to own a Mercedes, but BMW and preferably - Audi have my dollar.

~ Quattrings


I'm not discussing safety because in the car class we are talking about the cars are safe.
The question if of reliabilty, and fit and finish.
You may not like BMW's styling compard to Audi (I like Audi's better). However, that has nothing to do with quality of materials and construction.
BMW rates right up there with Audi in terms of construction and material quality.

But, in reality that's nitpicking because Audi and BMW make EXCELLENT cars. And that's the important thing for the enthusiast as we're not so swayed with durability as much as overall performance. As a group we tend to put up with more, sometimes. [:D]

[-Audi_tuning-]

Well first of all guys, the 335i is underrated as fuck, they're not 300hp like BMW claims, its closer to 340hp. Then second of all, shes a better driver than all of us here, and has been driving for a very very long time, she can really handle a car. I'd take a 335i over a S5 anyday.

driven both, S5 is in my future... and 340 is bs, maybe 310 or 315 but their not off by 40, if so, then the cars arent consistant because bmw wouldnt say 300 if it could say more, that would mean that the beemers turbos werent being consistant in the cars and caused some to be faster then others(this does happen in the cars but not by 40 friggin hp normally)... also the 335i isnt underrated at all, i give it credit but the S5 deserves more, the interior is better, the car's looks are better and after the snow falls I can still drive without spinning out... and lastly, how can she drive better then us, shes a damn woman? (no offense to women that can drive but any woman that refers to the 335 as a 3-3-5 is just dumb)- S5 FTW[:D]

[-Audi_tuning-]

If you ask me, I don't think they have done an outstanding job. Knowing your competition, they should have done better. An "S' badge car which competes with regular 3 series doesn't qualify for an outstanding job even though it is their 1st coupe in 10 years.

BMW knows how to do it right. This is their 1st turbo motor in 20 years and it is a screamer. Like someone said, it is underated as fuck. 335i is as good as the outgoing E46 M3. That tells you a lot of it's capabilities.

If you bring something back to the market after a long time, you just don't do an O.K job and depend on the next generation to beat the competition.

Another example of BMW... look at the 135i which is supposed to bring back the iconic 2002 memories... that's going to one hell of a car.

I'm glad BMW doesn't do like Mercedes and looks like Audi is doing the same thing... just putting a big motor and some minor suspension and cosmetic changes and slapping a AMG and S badge and calls it a high performance car.

Audi had to bring out the RS4 to beat the M3. Sure the S4's are faster than the M3's but M3 makes up in handling/braking/cornering and steering feel. It is most refined car out there and there's no doubt about it. Sure the new M3's can't be compared with the REAL E30 M3. E30 M3 was born on the race track and it's mission was to win championships and beat it's competition which it did very well... taking more than 1500 victories and still holds the record...

Anyway, my point is Audi should have done a lot better than what they have done here.

I totally agree with 4-tified, the "S" cars need to up their performance to match the M's as the RS are too expensive.


It obvious that you understand nothing about audi and you havent driven the car. The S5 is flat out better then any 335 out there, and just so you kno, if you put options into a 335xi its just about 50k (the one i priced out was 48,500 w/o i drive) and so spending what, an extra 3 to 4 grand for a car that needs no more options then what comes with it because it comes fully loaded seems fair to me.

As for needing to make the "s" cars faster to match the M, thats not their damn job, thats why theres and RS class, so go to an audi dealer and ask, I worked at one, I should kno, the S is for a touring car, its for a driver that wants some umph and still likes to drive it everyday, someone that loves taking corners fast but still has a family that they have to drive around... the RS class of cars is for the track, and to compete with the M3, if you dont believe me then think of this, BMW braught out the 3 series a yr or two before the new M3, Audi braught out the S5/A5 this year and the RS5 will come a yr or two down the road, sounds like they both like to bring out the big guns later on... And just so you know the RS5 is already rumored to kill the new M3, and its not that pricey either, the point is that if you have to ask the price you cant afford it... and from what I know there arent too many RS4's just sitting around waiting to be baught...

and on a last thought, these grand twin turbos are so great that the service manager for my local BMW dealer had this to say about them "great cars, dont own them out of warrentee, but other then that their great". I also got this from a tech I am friends with "its nice but there are problems all over, they run great till that check engine light comes on, then your luckey if three or four visits will turn it off"- i guess the techs arent used to the turbo set up, which they will get accustomed too(not knocking them, its new I understand they have to learn it) but these cars that are so great have problems and run very hot, which in the long run is never good.... so before you bash AUDI again, go drive the S5 and the BMW then you come back,

-audi didnt do a great job, ha, you dont know a great job if you dont see one in the S5,

--ppl piss me off--[headbang]

[-Audi_tuning-]

I have, and I've posted on this website.
The S5 is MUCH higher priced when compared to an equivalent optioned 335i.
Same goes for the A5 compared to the 328i coupe.
The A5 compares to the 335i in price to options.
The S5 is again in some lofty price point with performance not beholding it's price point.

There is NOT "ALOT" more standard equipment other than the quattro system.

go look at the list, and first of all YOU HAVE TO PUT THE XI OPTION IN THIS COMPARO!!!! the all wheel drive system costs more, really? i didnt kno that it would cost more to add two more wheels of driving power...

secondly again, once the bmw is mildly equiped your talking almost 50 grand... go look it up, go to your god damn audi dealer take the book and then go to your bmw dealer, say "i want every option this standard s5 has in my 335xi" and then see what he says... 50+ i garrentee it... try it, and see... i kno im right i almost bought one...

they dont learn, or research this crap[headbang]

[audiwop]

Tiff is on par with the Stig.

Tiff can drive their is now doubt about that, but if you watch tiff drive the Williams
F1 car vs the girl in the m5, and then watch the Video of the Stig driving the Renault F1 car, you will see how much faster and talented The stig is.

[Monizzle]

From what I've seen, aside from having a great looking interior and truly better fit and finish (the few Bangled BMW's i've been in have rattling/loose and cheap door trim), a better design (subjective), AWD, the S5 does not fully outperform the 335i for the money. Add to the fact that you're paying gas guzzler tax, the weight of AWD and a V8 that hardly "sips" fuel and you've got one expensive beautiful car that looks the part, talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. Pretty disappointing if you ask me, but we'll wait for official comparisons and real world numbers before passing final judgment.
And if the RS5 comes out and barely, just barely beats the M3 (let's face it, the RS5 is going to be 70g's to start probably), I'm fucking done with Audi until they get their shit in order - I don't want a beautiful car that is charging more but isn't outperforming its competition, that's just dumb.

[4-tified]

However, I agree 100% with your last statement - Audi and BMW do both make excellent cars. In fact, I would never care to own a Mercedes, but BMW and preferably - Audi have my dollar.

~ Quattrings

[up] Same with me. I don't desire the MB in this category.
I like Audi and BMW.

[4-tified]

go look at the list, and first of all YOU HAVE TO PUT THE XI OPTION IN THIS COMPARO!!!! the all wheel drive system costs more, really? i didnt kno that it would cost more to add two more wheels of driving power...

secondly again, once the bmw is mildly equiped your talking almost 50 grand... go look it up, go to your god damn audi dealer take the book and then go to your bmw dealer, say "i want every option this standard s5 has in my 335xi" and then see what he says... 50+ i garrentee it... try it, and see... i kno im right i almost bought one...

they dont learn, or research this crap[headbang]

No reason to GD, really.

Also, there is NO reason to get X drive in a BMW to compete with quattro.
Why? Because the RWD BMW's perform BETTER than the X versions.
The X version is offered by BMW to cover the market of buyers who are afraid of RWD and snowy roads. BMW's X drive is detrimental to the 3 series performance and should not be included in the price for a competing 3 series. Audi's are normally FWD and by adding quattro actually become better performing cars, that is why you need quattro in the A4.
If Audi made a RWD A4, I don't know that I would get quattro. It would be a tough call, and one made after much test driving.

But, as far as a BMW 3 series you should NOT get the X model to get the best overall performance.
When that is left out of the price, the 335i is a good bit less expensive compared to the S5.

I have compared the S5 and 335i features. You don't have to go to the dealer to get that info. You can get it at edmunds.com
There are standard items in the 335i that you pay extra for in the S5.
For example, you have to get the Bang&Olufson audio system to compare to the Logic7 from BMW. The 335i has a real functioning sunroof, while the S5 does not, it just pops up.

The price difference of nearly identical equipped cars is a bit over $8000.
The BMW costs less. Equipping an X drive 335i still puts the price at under $50k, $5560 less than the S5. Not as big a price difference to be sure, but the performance of the X makes it not worth paying for it.
The 0-60 is a bit quicker, but that's it.

[raulg_usa]

Well, as I said before in another thread already, Audi puts the price of the S5 right in the middle between 335i and MB CLK500. Nothing wrong with that, in my own opinion, I would pay the price (I am just not looking for a coupe).

And I think you are wrong with your comparisons, the A4 3.2 does not compete with the 335i, never, unless you disregard the performance and only care about price. Than, in that case the G37 (which is cheaper than 335i) is the clear winner of all .. just go and buy the G37 and that's it. You have to understand that Audi changed the "who on who", and BMW did the same. As you can see all MB and BMW and Audi have the fastest car in the 65k+ price range, with a middle performance around $50k (plus or minus something) and the slowest cars starting right above $30k. Check the prices on A4, 328, C class, you'll see what I am talking about. Do not stumble on $5-7k difference on a nice car, people have their own opinion and will go for their preferences, no matter what you think. That's why MB is still successfully selling the 2008 CLK550 Coupe starting at MSRP $55,675, which is from start $5,000 more expensive than the S5 without being any faster. The CLK 500 will hit $65k to $67 fully loaded.

[4-tified]

Well, as I said before in another thread already, Audi puts the price of the S5 right in the middle between 335i and MB CLK500. Nothing wrong with that, in my own opinion, I would pay the price (I am just not looking for a coupe).

And I think you are wrong with your comparisons, the A4 3.2 does not compete with the 335i, never, unless you disregard the performance and only care about price. Than, in that case the G37 (which is cheaper than 335i) is the clear winner of all .. just go and buy the G37 and that's it. You have to understand that Audi changed the "who on who", and BMW did the same. As you can see all MB and BMW and Audi have the fastest car in the 65k+ price range, with a middle performance around $50k (plus or minus something) and the slowest cars starting right above $30k. Check the prices on A4, 328, C class, you'll see what I am talking about. Do not stumble on $5-7k difference on a nice car, people have their own opinion and will go for their preferences, no matter what you think. That's why MB is still successfully selling the 2008 CLK550 Coupe starting at MSRP $55,675, which is from start $5,000 more expensive than the S5 without being any faster. The CLK 500 will hit $65k to $67 fully loaded.

Price and size is how the auto sales industry does it's comparisons, not by performance level.
And, of course people will buy what they want, who says they won't?
There are subjective and objective factors to consider when making a car choice.

To me, there is significant difference in price between the A5/S5 and the 328/335i in terms of price and performance. Audi loses on both accounts.
If you interpret that as a negative, then that's because you are the one who puts more value in those things.
I'm merely pointing out what should be objective.
For me, subjectively, the A5/S5 is gorgeous and I can easily see why someone would want it over a 328 or 335i.
Also, in my view Audi should bring an A5 2.0T to better compete with the 328i coupe in terms of price to performance.
I'm simply disagree with Audi's pricing strategy, and I think they will pay for that with lower sales.

There are many ways to compare automobiles such as; size, styling, performance, luxury level, exclusivity, etc...
In the US I don't see MB as easily competitive to Audi or BMW in this lower price, near luxury, sport sedan arena. However, I will say that MB's new C class is pretty nice. In the US MB is seen as more of a luxury brand or status brand. AMG's are their sport version, but you have to spend a lot of coin to get that performance.

One thing about the G sedan/coupe. It's a fantastic automobile and I can see why a lot buyers do opt for it instead of the A4 or 3 series, and some will skip the A5/S5 for the G coupe. Does it beat the top dog 335i? In terms of price, yes it does. In terms of performance, they are very close. There are great choices, and that's the beauty of it all.
We can make up our own mind up on which factors we value more.

I only speak for me and my opinion on how I see it. But, I will argue against those who want to make erroneous comparisons because their favorite might be seen as failing in one area or another.
If you like it, great! If you want to spend more money on one car because it looks nicer than the other, then of course it's your choice.

I went with my A4 2.0T instead of getting the, at the time, new E90 330i even though the 330i is faster and handles beter than my A4.
I just couldn't get over the new 3 series look, and the rumor that BMW was going to release a TT 3.0 that would make the "new" 330i obsolete.
See? We all make decisions based on our subjective wants/needs. [:D]
That doesn't mean we can't fairly compare vehicles in objective terms.
I made my decision for my Audi mostly based on design and style even though it's performance as lower. At least the price was bit lower too to make up for some of that. [:)]

[raulg_usa]

Agree with pretty much everything you just said, people are very confused by what they like, some can not even see the competition as a nice car, they can only hate. I also think it's expensive, but not really overpriced, unless you compare pure performance per dollar.

BTW, I just saw the S5 (yesterday) at my dealer, and although I have it clear in my head that I want the next S4, not a coupe, I found the car really really good looking, much better than in pictures. I took a few pics, but won't post them, the pics don't do the car justice. I do feel it needs a little more performance for my taste(after reading reviews, didn't let me drive YET), but that will be the RS5, for now this car sounds great, deep and strong but not loud. It looks awesome, compared to any other Audi in that huge parking lot is the best one for sure (they didn't have the R8 though). Loaded with navi, red interior, xenon, etc = $58k. I wouldn't mind paying that price a second for that car. Hopefully .. next year ...

[4-tified]

Agree with pretty much everything you just said, people are very confused by what they like, some can not even see the competition as a nice car, they can only hate. I also think it's expensive, but not really overpriced, unless you compare pure performance per dollar.

BTW, I just saw the S5 (yesterday) at my dealer, and although I have it clear in my head that I want the next S4, not a coupe, I found the car really really good looking, much better than in pictures. I took a few pics, but won't post them, the pics don't do the car justice. I do feel it needs a little more performance for my taste(after reading reviews, didn't let me drive YET), but that will be the RS5, for now this car sounds great, deep and strong but not loud. It looks awesome, compared to any other Audi in that huge parking lot is the best one for sure (they didn't have the R8 though). Loaded with navi, red interior, xenon, etc = $58k. I wouldn't mind paying that price a second for that car. Hopefully .. next year ...

I drove by the local dealer this morning and they have a quartz looking color with the "red" interior. I need to stop by this weekend and see if I can get a test drive.
It look very nice as I drove by.
And, it's my B-day today, maybe I can get them to give me that test drive!
[:D]

[raulg_usa]

I drove by the local dealer this morning and they have a quartz looking color with the "red" interior. I need to stop by this weekend and see if I can get a test drive.
It look very nice as I drove by.
And, it's my B-day today, maybe I can get them to give me that test drive!
[:D]

Is it McGrath Audi? On Waukegan rd? Well, the exterior & interior colors match your description. I will go back there next week just to test drive the car, I really wanna see how it goes.

[switchface]

For those that haven't driven both cars, your opinions should be taken with a (slight) grain of salt. I am considering both, so I drove both. I currently have a b5 s4 and I don't blindly follow 1 brand. I was intrigued by the twin turbo v6 of the 335 coupe...being similar to my engine.

However...and this is the point that many people seem to be missing...everyone's algorithm for what they want in a car is not the same so you cannot compare apples to apples. IMO these cars are not in the same league at all. That is not to say one is better or worse, just I no longer compare the two after driving them.

Please drive both of these cars before mouthing off your opinions as gospel!

If you were to ask me 4-5 years ago, i'd probably spout off stats as to how 1 car is .2 sec faster to 60 or how it gets better slalom numbers. But honestly, thats not really as important now (im still only 26). I could care less about stats, despite the fact they both seem to have comparable performance numbers. For me, the overall package is more important.

Test driving the 335 you can tell the car is put together very well in its suspension, chassis, and steering. It is a definite performer without even mentioning its tune ability. The engine pulls quietly and smooth with linear power. My S4 is a stage 2, so I know adding a proceed (etc..) would turn this car into a monster. [race]

However, other things are more important to me now as I rarely find myself doing stoplight drag races or going to the 155mph governor. The performance of the S5 is plenty for me. Does it compete with the 335? M3? XYZ? Who cares?! It has a nice amount of power, pulls strong and smooth, and the sound made me laugh like a school girl. I would keep it in lower gears on and off just to hear the sound...wow. It might be the perfect blend of low burble, mid rasp, and high end growl. Not sure if you'd wanna go aftermarket, but im curious to see what it would sound like.

Visual appeal is subjective, but still very important. Both cars have great attributes: whenever I see a 335 coupe I gaze at it admiring it. When I saw the S5 in the flesh yesterday, I dropped my pants and started to hump the quad exhausts...im in love. The suspension (finally) sits nicely over the 19's...no more 4X4 look that I have. The rear quarter view reminds me of an Aston Martin and the front quarter reminds me of a 70's muscle car. I have always been crazy for BMWs angel eyes and the Audi LED DRLs are to die for. I almost caused an accident on the test drive as a guy drifted slightly into the middle of an intersection just to get a better view! [eek]

The interior is where these cars separate themselves. Bias warning: I've always liked Audi interiors over BMW, so take this for what you will.

The 335 interior to me seemed purposeful but secondary to the performance of the machine. Those that come from BMWs will probably be fine with it and say theres not much of a difference to the Audi. Ive never liked the amber glow or the little buttons and their markings. I DESPISE iDrive, love BMWs M steering wheels, and cant understand why I cant order a black headliner. [headbang]

I can rave about the interior of the S5 for days, and its after experiencing both do you see how different the cars are. To me its close to perfect. It looked great but somethings seemed off in the photos...sit in it and youll understand. Everything is angled and positioned perfectly. A few notes: black headliner, magma red leather (never liked red interiors...but this is one amazing!), seats are comfortable yet supportive (some might want even more side bolster like Porsche's perfect sport seats), red stiching on the steering wheel and shifter, MMI is super easy and legible, backup camera was helpful, B&O stereo sounds great for only $850 (i personally like it much better than logic 7 btw), sirius radio stock, the carbon fiber and red leather accents...im gonna stop because this is all moot until you sit in the car to take it all in yourself.

Money wise has 2 points. Is the S5 worth the cost? To me, very much so. However...the money factor and residual value are horrible and Audi is not budging. BMW pays their own in house financing division a couple grand up front to inflate the residuals and keep payments costs down. This came from the Audi salesman; i thought he was knocking BMW, but he was giving them praise. I think its smart too...we both wished Audi did the same. He said its hard to move S4s and S5s because the payments are very high...prob too high for me right now. [=(]

Bottom line is they are different cars. The 335 coupe in socal is the car a lot of younger people are driving and modding to be a hot performance sport coupe. The car is EVERYWHERE, and to me that is a major drawback...I like to be a little different. The S5 appears to be a GT cruiser with sexy lines. I feel like I can entertain a client and wow a date at the same time. I got more looks on a short test drive than I have every in my life in a car...it made me feel almost 'invincible' as weird as that sounds. A car should invoke emotions...and this one does it...for me.

This isnt an Audi vs BMW war to me...just different cars for different people. Lets not bash one or the other; both fantastic cars...but please DRIVE both before making your opinions and forcing them on others.

[Greeney]

Switchface, what an amazing write up! I agree with everything you said!!! Really well written!

[-Audi_tuning-]

For those that haven't driven both cars, your opinions should be taken with a (slight) grain of salt. I am considering both, so I drove both. I currently have a b5 s4 and I don't blindly follow 1 brand. I was intrigued by the twin turbo v6 of the 335 coupe...being similar to my engine.

However...and this is the point that many people seem to be missing...everyone's algorithm for what they want in a car is not the same so you cannot compare apples to apples. IMO these cars are not in the same league at all. That is not to say one is better or worse, just I no longer compare the two after driving them.

Please drive both of these cars before mouthing off your opinions as gospel!

If you were to ask me 4-5 years ago, i'd probably spout off stats as to how 1 car is .2 sec faster to 60 or how it gets better slalom numbers. But honestly, thats not really as important now (im still only 26). I could care less about stats, despite the fact they both seem to have comparable performance numbers. For me, the overall package is more important.

Test driving the 335 you can tell the car is put together very well in its suspension, chassis, and steering. It is a definite performer without even mentioning its tune ability. The engine pulls quietly and smooth with linear power. My S4 is a stage 2, so I know adding a proceed (etc..) would turn this car into a monster. [race]

However, other things are more important to me now as I rarely find myself doing stoplight drag races or going to the 155mph governor. The performance of the S5 is plenty for me. Does it compete with the 335? M3? XYZ? Who cares?! It has a nice amount of power, pulls strong and smooth, and the sound made me laugh like a school girl. I would keep it in lower gears on and off just to hear the sound...wow. It might be the perfect blend of low burble, mid rasp, and high end growl. Not sure if you'd wanna go aftermarket, but im curious to see what it would sound like.

Visual appeal is subjective, but still very important. Both cars have great attributes: whenever I see a 335 coupe I gaze at it admiring it. When I saw the S5 in the flesh yesterday, I dropped my pants and started to hump the quad exhausts...im in love. The suspension (finally) sits nicely over the 19's...no more 4X4 look that I have. The rear quarter view reminds me of an Aston Martin and the front quarter reminds me of a 70's muscle car. I have always been crazy for BMWs angel eyes and the Audi LED DRLs are to die for. I almost caused an accident on the test drive as a guy drifted slightly into the middle of an intersection just to get a better view! [eek]

The interior is where these cars separate themselves. Bias warning: I've always liked Audi interiors over BMW, so take this for what you will.

The 335 interior to me seemed purposeful but secondary to the performance of the machine. Those that come from BMWs will probably be fine with it and say theres not much of a difference to the Audi. Ive never liked the amber glow or the little buttons and their markings. I DESPISE iDrive, love BMWs M steering wheels, and cant understand why I cant order a black headliner. [headbang]

I can rave about the interior of the S5 for days, and its after experiencing both do you see how different the cars are. To me its close to perfect. It looked great but somethings seemed off in the photos...sit in it and youll understand. Everything is angled and positioned perfectly. A few notes: black headliner, magma red leather (never liked red interiors...but this is one amazing!), seats are comfortable yet supportive (some might want even more side bolster like Porsche's perfect sport seats), red stiching on the steering wheel and shifter, MMI is super easy and legible, backup camera was helpful, B&O stereo sounds great for only $850 (i personally like it much better than logic 7 btw), sirius radio stock, the carbon fiber and red leather accents...im gonna stop because this is all moot until you sit in the car to take it all in yourself.

Money wise has 2 points. Is the S5 worth the cost? To me, very much so. However...the money factor and residual value are horrible and Audi is not budging. BMW pays their own in house financing division a couple grand up front to inflate the residuals and keep payments costs down. This came from the Audi salesman; i thought he was knocking BMW, but he was giving them praise. I think its smart too...we both wished Audi did the same. He said its hard to move S4s and S5s because the payments are very high...prob too high for me right now. [=(]

Bottom line is they are different cars. The 335 coupe in socal is the car a lot of younger people are driving and modding to be a hot performance sport coupe. The car is EVERYWHERE, and to me that is a major drawback...I like to be a little different. The S5 appears to be a GT cruiser with sexy lines. I feel like I can entertain a client and wow a date at the same time. I got more looks on a short test drive than I have every in my life in a car...it made me feel almost 'invincible' as weird as that sounds. A car should invoke emotions...and this one does it...for me.

This isnt an Audi vs BMW war to me...just different cars for different people. Lets not bash one or the other; both fantastic cars...but please DRIVE both before making your opinions and forcing them on others.

give this guy a hand right here...(clap), that was an amazing write up and i give it to you, that is the perfect summary of em both... this guy gets it [:D]

[raulg_usa]

give this guy a hand right here...(clap), that was an amazing write up and i give it to you, that is the perfect summary of em both... this guy gets it [:D]

x2 [up][up][up]

[4-tified]

Bottom line is they are different cars.

This isnt an Audi vs BMW war to me...just different cars for different people. Lets not bash one or the other; both fantastic cars...but please DRIVE both before making your opinions and forcing them on others.

I would completely disagree with you. And, nearly all the motor press and pro's would disagree that the cars in question are that different. Fact is, they are very comparable and have thus created much comparison.
It's not like we're comparing a base 4 door Toyota Camry to an S5 coupe.
The 3 series coupe and the A5 are very comparable cars built with the same buyer in mind.

You may not blindly follow one brand, but by your own bias admission your conclusion was based on your preference for one brands execution of comparable cars. This issue is very much Audi vs. BMW vs. any other maker wishing to compete in sporty, near luxury coupes, for example; Infiniti G37, and to a lesser extent the 350Z (the lower cost, less luxury version).

Yes, they are different because 2 different auto makers took slightly different approaches to accomplish the same goal to attract the same buyer.
So, it's obvious that the cars are "different" in appearance and style and materials. However, the goal and market are the same, and that is what makes them very comparable and very much NOT different.

Your position on other opinions as being "forced" is odd.
Most people were comparing what they had already seen and/or experienced. Driving both cars is what most will do once they get a chance. Until then everyone has a right to their position and opinion.
You've driven both cars now, so? Does your opinion supercede everyone's, or make your opinion more valid? By your own admissions, in your post, you place more value in areas that I do not.

I'll agree that anyone wanting either car should physically test both for themselves. And, by the very fact that you did compare both shows that the cars are only different in execution not in intent. Your post seems to attempt to make it seems as if the 2 cars are vastly different and somehow incomparable. I don't agree.

[switchface]

I would completely disagree with you. And, nearly all the motor press and pro's would disagree that the cars in question are that different. Fact is, they are very comparable and have thus created much comparison.
It's not like we're comparing a base 4 door Toyota Camry to an S5 coupe.
The 3 series coupe and the A5 are very comparable cars built with the same buyer in mind.

You completely disagree? Hmmm. Then im going to ASSume you have driven both? Do you disagree with my impressions or just my overall conclusion?


You may not blindly follow one brand, but by your own bias admission your conclusion was based on your preference for one brands execution of comparable cars. This issue is very much Audi vs. BMW vs. any other maker wishing to compete in sporty, near luxury coupes, for example; Infiniti G37, and to a lesser extent the 350Z (the lower cost, less luxury version).

My preference being based on one car's execution vs another? Isn't that exactly what constitutes my preference? [rolleyes]


Yes, they are different because 2 different auto makers took slightly different approaches to accomplish the same goal to attract the same buyer.
So, it's obvious that the cars are "different" in appearance and style and materials. However, the goal and market are the same, and that is what makes them very comparable and very much NOT different.

Slightly different approaches? Different appearance, style, materials, V8 vs 6 cyl twin turbo and AWD vs RWD are a little more than slight differences wouldn't you say? Is the goal really the same? I mean when I'm hungry I eat food...does that mean I can compare a Ruth's Chris steak to Sushi because they both fill me up? Maybe my analogy is a little much and I'm all about pitting foes head to head, but my point was that after driving and experiencing the two I don't feel the two to be very similar.


Your position on other opinions as being "forced" is odd.
Most people were comparing what they had already seen and/or experienced. Driving both cars is what most will do once they get a chance. Until then everyone has a right to their position and opinion.
You've driven both cars now, so? Does your opinion supercede everyone's, or make your opinion more valid? By your own admissions, in your post, you place more value in areas that I do not.

I never meant what I said to mean that people are not entitled to their opinion. What I meant by my comment was that people seem to state their opinion without any real life experience to back it up. And to be honest, thats ok too...ive never driven a Ferrari 430, but I still know I want one terribly. But I wouldn't argue absolutes on a certain aspect, as it seems some people do based on secondary information.

And whoever said my opinion was more important than others? C'mon man...everyone can have their own opinion...you know thats not my point. Its like this: what if I were to tell you that North Jersey pizza is hands down better than Chicago deep dish? Im entitled to my opinion, but would you really hold my opinion in high regard if I told you I formed it without ever having Chicago pizza? BTW, ive had both...Jersey mos def takes it!! [:D]


I'll agree that anyone wanting either car should physically test both for themselves. And, by the very fact that you did compare both shows that the cars are only different in execution not in intent. Your post seems to attempt to make it seems as if the 2 cars are vastly different and somehow incomparable. I don't agree.

Again, not to say you flat out cant compare the two...after all, thats exactly what we are doing right now. But, to me, after driving both, they seem to be in different leagues and thus I formed an opinion. And what if their intent is the same...isnt the execution the part that really matters in the end? I mean, take football for example: both teams playing have intent on winning the game, but the team that executes better is the team that usually wins. To me...my winner is clear. [cool]

[jonmiles]

God that chick was annoying.... give me Clarkson...

Amen

[jonmiles]

Better motor? I don't think so. If you are talking about the cost vs. tuning ability sure. It is cheap to buy a chip and exhaust for the 335 but then you run into problems getting the power to the ground since the 335 doesn't even have a LSD. One wheel burnouts aren't for me, I'll take Quattro. It will cost more to supercharge the FSI V8 but in stock form it has greater torque and sounds great. This is my plan for the FSI V8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVIIWJPpc2A It won't exactly have the power output of the RS4 but 500bhp should be realistic, and no way that 335 will sound this mean...


Agreed. And I don't care what the magazine's say, the turbo lag in that car (335) is a pain in the balls to manage through corners- expecially after being used to the Audi's infinite torque that is available all the time.

The feel of these two cars is completely different, the bmw keeping with its traditional sports car feel, while the Audi just has balls... and balls and more balls. Also, there is no comparison between these two cars for the fun factor (not just comfort) in daily driving conditions, which for just about everyone is going to be 99% of the time spent in this car.

[D0lphinGrey]

You may not blindly follow one brand, but by your own bias admission your conclusion was based on your preference for one brands execution of comparable cars. This issue is very much Audi vs. BMW vs. any other maker wishing to compete in sporty, near luxury coupes, for example; Infiniti G37, and to a lesser extent the 350Z (the lower cost, less luxury version).


LOL the 350Z is NOT "the lower cost less luxury version" of Infiniti G37. As much as they have shared engine/driveline structure and suspension components. They are, as you like to called it "different in intent". G37 is a luxury coupe (or at least its trying to be) but the 350Z is more of a track focused sports car. Completely different market of buyers. Just like what a Z4 coupe is to a 3 series coupe.


Your post seems to attempt to make it seems as if the 2 cars are vastly different and somehow incomparable. I don't agree

As you like to phrase it: "I would completely disagree with you". I think you have misunderstood switchface's post. No he did not state the 2 cars are incomparable. What he posted was some well informed or educated opinions on both cars that he actually has seen and driven, and most of us tend to agree with his views. The fact that you started your post with such a provocative statement "I would completely disagree with you" sounds to me like a typical key board warrior trying to be the center of attention in a forum thread. Then again, its just my opinion.

[QuaTTrings]

Props man - great way to put it!


For those that haven't driven both cars, your opinions should be taken with a (slight) grain of salt. I am considering both, so I drove both. I currently have a b5 s4 and I don't blindly follow 1 brand. I was intrigued by the twin turbo v6 of the 335 coupe...being similar to my engine.

However...[U]and this is the point that many people seem to be missing...everyone's algorithm for what they want in a car is not the same so you cannot compare apples to apples. IMO these cars are not in the same league at all. That is not to say one is better or worse, just I no longer compare the two after driving them.

Please drive both of these cars before mouthing off your opinions as gospel!

If you were to ask me 4-5 years ago, i'd probably spout off stats as to how 1 car is .2 sec faster to 60 or how it gets better slalom numbers. But honestly, thats not really as important now (im still only 26). I could care less about stats, despite the fact they both seem to have comparable performance numbers. For me, the overall package is more important.

Test driving the 335 you can tell the car is put together very well in its suspension, chassis, and steering. It is a definite performer without even mentioning its tune ability. The engine pulls quietly and smooth with linear power. My S4 is a stage 2, so I know adding a proceed (etc..) would turn this car into a monster. [race]

However, other things are more important to me now as I rarely find myself doing stoplight drag races or going to the 155mph governor. The performance of the S5 is plenty for me. Does it compete with the 335? M3? XYZ? Who cares?! It has a nice amount of power, pulls strong and smooth, and the sound made me laugh like a school girl. I would keep it in lower gears on and off just to hear the sound...wow. It might be the perfect blend of low burble, mid rasp, and high end growl. Not sure if you'd wanna go aftermarket, but im curious to see what it would sound like.

Visual appeal is subjective, but still very important. Both cars have great attributes: whenever I see a 335 coupe I gaze at it admiring it. When I saw the S5 in the flesh yesterday, I dropped my pants and started to hump the quad exhausts...im in love. The suspension (finally) sits nicely over the 19's...no more 4X4 look that I have. The rear quarter view reminds me of an Aston Martin and the front quarter reminds me of a 70's muscle car. I have always been crazy for BMWs angel eyes and the Audi LED DRLs are to die for. I almost caused an accident on the test drive as a guy drifted slightly into the middle of an intersection just to get a better view! [eek]

The interior is where these cars separate themselves. Bias warning: I've always liked Audi interiors over BMW, so take this for what you will.

The 335 interior to me seemed purposeful but secondary to the performance of the machine. Those that come from BMWs will probably be fine with it and say theres not much of a difference to the Audi. Ive never liked the amber glow or the little buttons and their markings. I DESPISE iDrive, love BMWs M steering wheels, and cant understand why I cant order a black headliner. [headbang]

I can rave about the interior of the S5 for days, and its after experiencing both do you see how different the cars are. To me its close to perfect. It looked great but somethings seemed off in the photos...sit in it and youll understand. Everything is angled and positioned perfectly. A few notes: black headliner, magma red leather (never liked red interiors...but this is one amazing!), seats are comfortable yet supportive (some might want even more side bolster like Porsche's perfect sport seats), red stiching on the steering wheel and shifter, MMI is super easy and legible, backup camera was helpful, B&O stereo sounds great for only $850 (i personally like it much better than logic 7 btw), sirius radio stock, the carbon fiber and red leather accents...im gonna stop because this is all moot until you sit in the car to take it all in yourself.

Money wise has 2 points. Is the S5 worth the cost? To me, very much so. However...the money factor and residual value are horrible and Audi is not budging. BMW pays their own in house financing division a couple grand up front to inflate the residuals and keep payments costs down. This came from the Audi salesman; i thought he was knocking BMW, but he was giving them praise. I think its smart too...we both wished Audi did the same. He said its hard to move S4s and S5s because the payments are very high...prob too high for me right now. [=(]

Bottom line is they are different cars. The 335 coupe in socal is the car a lot of younger people are driving and modding to be a hot performance sport coupe. The car is EVERYWHERE, and to me that is a major drawback...I like to be a little different. The S5 appears to be a GT cruiser with sexy lines. I feel like I can entertain a client and wow a date at the same time. I got more looks on a short test drive than I have every in my life in a car...it made me feel almost 'invincible' as weird as that sounds. A car should invoke emotions...and this one does it...for me.

This isnt an Audi vs BMW war to me...just different cars for different people. Lets not bash one or the other; both fantastic cars...but please DRIVE both before making your opinions and forcing them on others.

[kolan67]

my blind pride for audi wil not allow me to read anything good about bmws

[boostedg35]

For those that haven't driven both cars, your opinions should be taken with a (slight) grain of salt. I am considering both, so I drove both. I currently have a b5 s4 and I don't blindly follow 1 brand. I was intrigued by the twin turbo v6 of the 335 coupe...being similar to my engine.

However...and this is the point that many people seem to be missing...everyone's algorithm for what they want in a car is not the same so you cannot compare apples to apples. IMO these cars are not in the same league at all. That is not to say one is better or worse, just I no longer compare the two after driving them.

Please drive both of these cars before mouthing off your opinions as gospel!

If you were to ask me 4-5 years ago, i'd probably spout off stats as to how 1 car is .2 sec faster to 60 or how it gets better slalom numbers. But honestly, thats not really as important now (im still only 26). I could care less about stats, despite the fact they both seem to have comparable performance numbers. For me, the overall package is more important.

Test driving the 335 you can tell the car is put together very well in its suspension, chassis, and steering. It is a definite performer without even mentioning its tune ability. The engine pulls quietly and smooth with linear power. My S4 is a stage 2, so I know adding a proceed (etc..) would turn this car into a monster. [race]

However, other things are more important to me now as I rarely find myself doing stoplight drag races or going to the 155mph governor. The performance of the S5 is plenty for me. Does it compete with the 335? M3? XYZ? Who cares?! It has a nice amount of power, pulls strong and smooth, and the sound made me laugh like a school girl. I would keep it in lower gears on and off just to hear the sound...wow. It might be the perfect blend of low burble, mid rasp, and high end growl. Not sure if you'd wanna go aftermarket, but im curious to see what it would sound like.

Visual appeal is subjective, but still very important. Both cars have great attributes: whenever I see a 335 coupe I gaze at it admiring it. When I saw the S5 in the flesh yesterday, I dropped my pants and started to hump the quad exhausts...im in love. The suspension (finally) sits nicely over the 19's...no more 4X4 look that I have. The rear quarter view reminds me of an Aston Martin and the front quarter reminds me of a 70's muscle car. I have always been crazy for BMWs angel eyes and the Audi LED DRLs are to die for. I almost caused an accident on the test drive as a guy drifted slightly into the middle of an intersection just to get a better view! [eek]

The interior is where these cars separate themselves. Bias warning: I've always liked Audi interiors over BMW, so take this for what you will.

The 335 interior to me seemed purposeful but secondary to the performance of the machine. Those that come from BMWs will probably be fine with it and say theres not much of a difference to the Audi. Ive never liked the amber glow or the little buttons and their markings. I DESPISE iDrive, love BMWs M steering wheels, and cant understand why I cant order a black headliner. [headbang]

I can rave about the interior of the S5 for days, and its after experiencing both do you see how different the cars are. To me its close to perfect. It looked great but somethings seemed off in the photos...sit in it and youll understand. Everything is angled and positioned perfectly. A few notes: black headliner, magma red leather (never liked red interiors...but this is one amazing!), seats are comfortable yet supportive (some might want even more side bolster like Porsche's perfect sport seats), red stiching on the steering wheel and shifter, MMI is super easy and legible, backup camera was helpful, B&O stereo sounds great for only $850 (i personally like it much better than logic 7 btw), sirius radio stock, the carbon fiber and red leather accents...im gonna stop because this is all moot until you sit in the car to take it all in yourself.

Money wise has 2 points. Is the S5 worth the cost? To me, very much so. However...the money factor and residual value are horrible and Audi is not budging. BMW pays their own in house financing division a couple grand up front to inflate the residuals and keep payments costs down. This came from the Audi salesman; i thought he was knocking BMW, but he was giving them praise. I think its smart too...we both wished Audi did the same. He said its hard to move S4s and S5s because the payments are very high...prob too high for me right now. [=(]

Bottom line is they are different cars. The 335 coupe in socal is the car a lot of younger people are driving and modding to be a hot performance sport coupe. The car is EVERYWHERE, and to me that is a major drawback...I like to be a little different. The S5 appears to be a GT cruiser with sexy lines. I feel like I can entertain a client and wow a date at the same time. I got more looks on a short test drive than I have every in my life in a car...it made me feel almost 'invincible' as weird as that sounds. A car should invoke emotions...and this one does it...for me.

This isnt an Audi vs BMW war to me...just different cars for different people. Lets not bash one or the other; both fantastic cars...but please DRIVE both before making your opinions and forcing them on others.
[up] he speaks the truth

[quantoc]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/quantoc/largejpg1.jpg

My buddy and I got together a couple of weekend's ago. Switchface hit the nail on the head. They are both great cars, and you can't go wrong.http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/quantoc/largejpg2.jpg

another pichttp://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/quantoc/large.jpg

one more
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/quantoc/largejpg3.jpg

[pizdetsauduxa]

^^ill take one, please

[switchface]

Wow, great side by side of the two. Damn you! Heh, I was just thinking that the S5 seems to be out of my price range with its horrible lease rates; thinking I was going to be *forced* toward the 335. But after seeing the two side by side, the s5 has so much more character in my eyes.

Ugh, I can afford an A5, but will I be miserable yearning for the S?

[BG624]

Ummmm. The S5 has a new Modular Longitudinal Platform that places the engine and transmission further back behind the axle and helps stretch the wheelbase without lengthening the car's exterior dimensions. The engine mounting position over the front axle, in favor of the powertrain being located behind the front axle - in an effort to achieve a more even weight distribution (55/45) between the front and rear wheels.

So no its not like traditional Audis. Audi claims that all new models will favor this geometry

And in all the reviews i've read and videos i've seen, i have yet to see the 335 or any other car 'beat' it.


I love Audi's but even the "new" platform has the entire engine forward of the front axle. I checked an S5 as soon as my dealer had one and was surprised that although further back than previous Audi's the entire motor was forward of the axle.
There is no way the Audi with a bit more power will beat a much better weight balanced car on the track.

[YelloJello]

Kind of off topic: How would a RWD S5 perform if there ever was one?

[switchface]

Nice garage BG624!

I know if I am fortunate enough to afford an S5, it's track performance is the last thing on my mind. Funny how I used to be obsessed over .1 sec here or there, but honestly, how many of us are taking our s5's to the track. Cant speak for all, but I know I wouldnt.

[BG624]

Nice garage BG624!

I know if I am fortunate enough to afford an S5, it's track performance is the last thing on my mind. Funny how I used to be obsessed over .1 sec here or there, but honestly, how many of us are taking our s5's to the track. Cant speak for all, but I know I wouldnt.

Thanks,

I agree completely about how obsessed we can be over a .01 second track difference when a different car would give us more pleasure on the road.

Regarding how a rear drive S5 would compare to the 335i I would say if the motor was moved back so the weight distribution was similar it would be very close with the nod probably going to the lighter car.

[Alpinevelo]

I agree with the statement above, and also keep in mind that if that test was repeated 3 times you would get 3 different results. A different driver would have possibly had a different result as well. We are talking about milliseconds, its not like the BMW lapped the Audi... As much as it is fun to watch Top gear they are not the bible in regards to car performance. We need a big bottle of chill pills here. For me an S5 would be the car to drive. The 335i to be honest is nothing to look at. I was at a restaurant this past weekend and an S5 pulled up to the valet parking area and the valets were fighting each other to see who would get to park the car. I've never seen anyone do that for a 335i, however they are both great cars indeed... [up]

[dotcomloser]

I saw this video about 2 months before I bought my S5. But there was no way one comparison test even with negative results was going to sway my decision. The S5 is absolutely STUNNING to look at. Think about it. When was the last time a car that is within your financial ability, made your heart flutter as much as the S5 does when you look at it?

I'm new here, so hello all!

[Elberoth]

I would love to see how AWD 3-series competes with S5.

[4-tified]

LOL the 350Z is NOT "the lower cost less luxury version" of Infiniti G37. As much as they have shared engine/driveline structure and suspension components. They are, as you like to called it "different in intent". G37 is a luxury coupe (or at least its trying to be) but the 350Z is more of a track focused sports car. Completely different market of buyers. Just like what a Z4 coupe is to a 3 series coupe.



As you like to phrase it: "I would completely disagree with you". I think you have misunderstood switchface's post. No he did not state the 2 cars are incomparable. What he posted was some well informed or educated opinions on both cars that he actually has seen and driven, and most of us tend to agree with his views. The fact that you started your post with such a provocative statement "I would completely disagree with you" sounds to me like a typical key board warrior trying to be the center of attention in a forum thread. Then again, its just my opinion.

I said, "in execution, NOT in intent."
BIG, difference in understanding the point.
[:)] The Z4 is to the 3 coupe what the Z car is the G35/37?
Yes, that would be an opinion, but not a statement that is based on reality.
The Z4 is nothing like a 3 coupe, whereas the Z is very similar to the G35/37. The G is a Z dressed up, and that's all it is.
When I was in the market I did shop both of them directly because of their similarities.

Yes, I "completely disagree", just like you disagree with me. We are allowed that in this country. [;)]
So, does that make you a provocative key board warrior looking for attention as well?

Also, I NEVER said that his comments were not informed or not educated, so why bring that in here.
I just simply state that I do not agree with his conclusions.

I understood what he wrote and my response is direct to his comments.
You're attack on me looks, to me, as if you don't understand what I wrote, yet you still made a negative conclusion.

It would be better if you actually pointed out what and why, about my comments, you find disagreeable.
Please don't use the G/Z thing, cause you're way off there. [:)]

[4-tified]

I would love to see how AWD 3-series competes with S5.

The better 3 series performer is the RWD, NOT the AWD.
The AWD is there for people who may need it in bad weather, but it doesn't improve the vehicle like quattro does in an Audi.

An AWD 3 series is actually worse in all around performance compared to a quattro A4 than a RWD 3 series.

[ToMMyRsK04]

I honestly dont think she put the S5 AWD system to its limits .. and the S5 could prob. do close to the same time in the rain .. good luck 335i

[Andrew A4]

Is the 335i a better value? It's priced around 39k to start...the S5 at 52k.


The S5 I drove today was fully loaded and the sticker was $58k. It was an amazingly beautiful car and the N/A V8 has gobs of power which is ready to go at any moment. I've also driven 335i's and wouldn't think twice before dropping the cash for a loaded S5 than a loaded 335i. The S5 is simply gorgeous inside and out with amazing seats, dashboard, and the way the S5 steers and adapts to various road conditions is far beyond the BMW.

Yes.... i know you're all going to say.... "chip the 335i and it's a whole nother story...."

Raw power is NOT everything in a car. My track car, an Evolution IX was a MONSTER and would eat any chipped 335i on the track. But the Evo IX had a horrible interior (minus the recaro seats) and while it is an incredibly nimble and POWERFUL car (356awhp) with a chip and 3" turbo back.... like the BMW... It lacks the refinement and beautiful interior design that I find incredibly important when picking a fast car.

btw.... sold the Evo last month. Fun car while it lasted. The thing ate caymans, 911's (non turbos), non-Z06 vettes, and countless other "fast" cars on the track on a daily basis. But in the end.... I prefer to drive cars that are as beautiful as they are powerful. Which is why I'm considering an S5 towards the end of this year.

[B7...kyle...A4]

5th gears a shit program anyway!!! its top gear you wanna watch!!! quality

[switchface]

Top Gear is great...gotta love Clarkson.

[ngng]

now make the track wet and the 335 will wet it's pants trying to keep up

funny, because in other tests the RWD M3 killed hte S4...in the wet

[JunkStory]

funny, because in other tests the RWD M3 killed hte S4...in the wet

The S4 isn't even in the same league as the M3. S4 vs. 335i in the wet, then it might be a different story [confused]

[myaudibaby]

don't even compare a M3 to a 335. 335 is just an ordinary 3 series! the M is... well.... they didn't put a M badge for no reason. maybe only true M enthusiast will know what i'm talking about. [:)]

[Matth13]

don't even compare a M3 to a 335. 335 is just an ordinary 3 series! the M is... well.... they didn't put a M badge for no reason. maybe only true M enthusiast will know what i'm talking about. [:)]

why not a 335 is such a better car then that peice of shit sounding M3 revving it sounds like a girl is crying.. i hate SMG trans m3 sound .. i ear Vw's that sound more appealing IMO.. anyways 335 is faster and has much easier tune up mods.. i think Vishnu stage 2 gives the 335 400+hp making in a 4.3 second car or quicker according to their sight.. the 335 replaced the m3 and is better.. the new M3 is in a different class this time competing with the Rs4... and again IMO any s4 in the rain will make lunch meat of a rwd m3 so wheoevr posted that.. ive been in a s4 with a friend in the rain next to an m3- he had noooo traction on the start-- and the only reason the m3 will pull is power to weight ratio.. s4 v8 is meanier and much better sounding..

Personally when i see the 05 prior m3's now i look at them like any other Bmw.. they dont no longer impress me.. id much rather choose a fully loaded 335(four door) i looove four doors.. over any brand new 02+ m3

[Matth13]

For the record.. on the way to work today i heard my first 335 pushing the pedal to the metal so to speak... and the sound the 3.0tt makes is Amzing they did a good job with that car - only thing negative about that car is the small fuel pump bmmw puts on it. i think

[myaudibaby]

why not a 335 is such a better car then that peice of shit sounding M3 revving it sounds like a girl is crying.. i hate SMG trans m3 sound .. i ear Vw's that sound more appealing IMO.. anyways 335 is faster and has much easier tune up mods.. i think Vishnu stage 2 gives the 335 400+hp making in a 4.3 second car or quicker according to their sight.. the 335 replaced the m3 and is better.. the new M3 is in a different class this time competing with the Rs4... and again IMO any s4 in the rain will make lunch meat of a rwd m3 so wheoevr posted that.. ive been in a s4 with a friend in the rain next to an m3- he had noooo traction on the start-- and the only reason the m3 will pull is power to weight ratio.. s4 v8 is meanier and much better sounding..

Personally when i see the 05 prior m3's now i look at them like any other Bmw.. they dont no longer impress me.. id much rather choose a fully loaded 335(four door) i looove four doors.. over any brand new 02+ m3

E46 M3 still owns a stock 335. the 335 has two turbos, the M3 is n/a. the e46M3 engine is 8 years old! but still can compete with the new cars on the market! FI the M3 and see what it can do with the 335! [rolleyes] M3 > B6 S4 in any aspect. 6 vs 8 cylinder, 333hp vs 340hp. M3 is still the faster car around ANY track!

[Nico]

E46 M3 still owns a stock 335. the 335 has two turbos, the M3 is n/a. the e46M3 engine is 8 years old! but still can compete with the new cars on the market! FI the M3 and see what it can do with the 335! [rolleyes] M3 > B6 S4 in any aspect. 6 vs 8 cylinder, 333hp vs 340hp. M3 is still the faster car around ANY track!

The E46 M3 was by far the best M3 ever. The new M3 is just as quick but in a different way. E46 race car inspired vs E90 luxury cruiser/race car.
The M3 is supposed to compete with RS4 not S4 due to price bracket M3 and Rs4 cost similar amounts.

[BIGGY]

Wow, I'm newer to this forum and initially missed this thread. Strange how folks are shocked that the 335 is better on the track. Have you driven both? The S5 is not the top choice for track car. It's more of a "race to work" street car. By far the handling on the 335 is not even closely superior as is the steering feel. I personally chose the S5 anyway because I drive to work in it 99% of the time as well as the other day to day places. I like the interior much better, the exterior design, the V8 sound, and the comfort of the ride. But if I was to choose a car for the track between the two, the obvious choice without a doubt is the 335.

[myaudibaby]

The E46 M3 was by far the best M3 ever. The new M3 is just as quick but in a different way. E46 race car inspired vs E90 luxury cruiser/race car.
The M3 is supposed to compete with RS4 not S4 due to price bracket M3 and Rs4 cost similar amounts.

all i can say is M POWER!!![up] 335[down]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbm5JqdJ0Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVCL0M4e0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teq2ZYm2fvs&feature=related

anyway back to topic, i would pick the S5 not the 335. S5 is sexy, has enough power and not everybody drives it.

[S|Quattro|4]

E46 M3 still owns a stock 335. the 335 has two turbos, the M3 is n/a. the e46M3 engine is 8 years old! but still can compete with the new cars on the market! FI the M3 and see what it can do with the 335! [rolleyes] M3 > B6 S4 in any aspect. 6 vs 8 cylinder, 333hp vs 340hp. M3 is still the faster car around ANY track!

Um, the 335i is WAY under tuned from factory. I dont care what you say, if you chip a 335i (which makes the car properly tuned...), it will annihilate any stock or moderately modded e46 M3 out there.

[S|Quattro|4]

The S4 isn't even in the same league as the M3. S4 vs. 335i in the wet, then it might be a different story [confused]

I think it would be pretty close if it was the XI version of the 335... It may have a couple less HP than the S4, but it is way lighter. So, it would definitely be a close race.

[S|Quattro|4]

The better 3 series performer is the RWD, NOT the AWD.
The AWD is there for people who may need it in bad weather, but it doesn't improve the vehicle like quattro does in an Audi.

An AWD 3 series is actually worse in all around performance compared to a quattro A4 than a RWD 3 series.

LOL, how could you say that? Are there any RWD Audis out there? Im sure that if the S5 came in RWD, it would perform better than the AWD S5. Idk why you guys think that QUATTRO is so special, its pretty much the name... Its a normal AWD system, nothing like the AWD system that is in the Evos and those other tin can racers...

BTW, Quattro=XI