Thermal Race vs. Milltek..the on going battle.

[hotreel]

I cant seem to make up my mind on which exhaust to go with. After searching the threads ive come up with very mixed reviews on both of them. My main concern is sound and performance. Is the thermal exhaust too loud? Does it sound at all ricey? And how does the milltek sound? Anybody have any sound clips of it? And is it worth the extra $$$. I definitely want one of the two and just need to decide. If anyone can give me some input it would be greatlt appreciated? Thanx in advance

[SoCalAgentMSK]

The thermal looks REALLY good and the tips don't seem to stick out as far as some people have said they do (Ultra Sports excluded). The Thermal Race would probably be more HP gain but in my opinion it is a very noticable increase in sound. I just rode in someones 03' today who has the Thermal Race and there is some droning under load in between 2500 - 3200RPM and a noticable increase in cabin noise. Not as loud as I thought it would be from seeing posts about it, but still a little too loud for my tastes. Keep in mind this is coming fomr someone whose previous car was a 97 Camaro with Flowmaster exhaust so I want my Audi quiet.

I have not had a chance to hear the Miltek in person however it seems the common concensus was that the Thermal lokos awesome and has impressive increase in HP while the Miltek is very clsoe to stock sound with smaller HP gains. Hope this helps.

[astris]

When is Thermal going to come out with the FWD turbo back? Last I checked, it was supposed to already be out. Does Miltek make a turbo back for FWD? What are the gains for Miltek? Anyone else make a FWD turbo back?

[DELUX]

im also looking into either milltek or supersprint. ive already ruled out thermal as too loud. im curious on how milltek sounds though.

[A4 - Oh Snap]

FYI the MTM should fit perfectly on the USP models. It's pricey, but if you consider Milltek + cost to bend everything right, you might as well get the MTM and avoid the hassle. That is what I am considering.


Originally posted by dELuX-A4
im also looking into either milltek or supersprint. ive already ruled out thermal as too loud. im curious on how milltek sounds though.

[Crazy Quattro]

Originally posted by A4 - Oh Snap
FYI the MTM should fit perfectly on the USP models. It's pricey, but if you consider Milltek + cost to bend everything right, you might as well get the MTM and avoid the hassle. That is what I am considering.


Why would you need to bend the miltek? They offer one for your car. Should fit fine.

I have version one of miltek exhaust, i can take a sound clip of it if you guys want.

[A4 - Oh Snap]

Hey Crazy,

I have read on AW that fitment and craftsmanship was a problem with the Milltek. Same with the Neuspeed exhaust (craftsmanship-wise).

Did you have any problems with yours initially?


Originally posted by Crazy Quattro
Why would you need to bend the miltek? They offer one for your car. Should fit fine.

I have version one of miltek exhaust, i can take a sound clip of it if you guys want.

[Crazy Quattro]

I bought mine used and the welds and everything looked great. Everything looks high quality to me.

I did have fitment issues but that was because I bought a miltek exhaust that was made for a FWD A4. After some cutting it fits fine. Im really happy with this exhaust but i only can compare it to the APR, which hardly has any sound. Also make sure you been reading the posts about the version 2 miltek, which i hear has better fitment.

Plus the guys at Stratmosphere will go out of their way if you ever run into any problems. That right there is worth it to me. [:)]

[astris]

Originally posted by Crazy Quattro
Why would you need to bend the miltek? They offer one for your car. Should fit fine.

I have version one of miltek exhaust, i can take a sound clip of it if you guys want.

Some sound clips would be great!

[Crazy Quattro]

Originally posted by astris
Some sound clips would be great!


Ill try to take some on Friday. [:)]

[bugzy]

I got milltek ... and i can tell you the sound quality is by far the best (excluding MTM) ..

the sound is similar to stock, but do not mistake it as stock

it is very deep ... ive had people who first thought my exhaust was stock, but when they listen again .. fall in love with the tone

i had some initial fitment issues around the driveshaft area ... but any muffler shop can bend some hangers to make it work

so, fitment to me wasnt a big deal as long as the muffler shop knows what to look for

i think thermal probably has better power gains in race version

but as for sound quality, you cant beat the milltek

[astris]

Originally posted by Crazy Quattro
Ill try to take some on Friday. [:)]

Thanks! Milltek clips are hard to find. Only heard clips from a B5.

[astris]

Hey Bugzy,

You still selling your exhaust? Will it fit FWD? What are you getting next?

[Jeff]

I think the Milltek is one of the best sounding exhaust I have heard. Stock-like in sound level, with a slight rumble. However, with all the Millteks I have installed (including on VW's), their quality and fitment is pretty horrible. Only thing "Stainless" and shiny is from the muffler and up, everything else is standard "steel" pipes, with welding spots. Fitment wise, you always have to either have the pipes rebent, or have something cut or tweek. Personally, I do not like the "rolled tip" look, but some like it.

As far as the Thermal is concerned, it is absolutely one of the most beautiful exhaust systems I've seen. From the DP gasket, all the way to the muffler tip, it is SHINY and polished to the last detail. Their tips do stick out a bit, but it is ok for me. Soundwise, it is one of the DEEPEST and LOUDEST exhausts I've heard (from the 3" DP). I have the Street version of the exhaust (which has silencer cones on the muffler that lower it about 4-5dB), but the car still drones and resonates. Awesome sound, just not for everyday commutes. Turning up the radio with the windows down often cure that. :)

-Jeff

[Matt Devo]

the fit of the milltek on my '02 A4 1.8T FWD was fine, sound is much better than the thermal race IMO (lower in tone, not quite as loud, no droning)

[lawong]

Thermal hands down has the best craftsmanship. Also, installing the thermal has much more room for tweaking. The Milltek is much more difficult to fit perfectly.

Not saying that it is impossible, but all exhaust systems will have variance in production. The best thing for any alignment and fitment issues is to get it installed by a qualified/reputible exhaust shop.

[/\G]

Thermal - Better looking, better fitment, better performance, lower price.

Based on that, why would you get Milltek?

I would go Thermal Street

[A4 - Oh Snap]

Sound issues maybe? I don't know. Lots of good feedback though. Keep it up!


Originally posted by /\G
Thermal - Better looking, better fitment, better performance, lower price.

Based on that, why would you get Milltek?

I would go Thermal Street

[Villains]

Originally posted by A4 - Oh Snap
Hey Crazy,

I have read on AW that fitment and craftsmanship was a problem with the Milltek. Same with the Neuspeed exhaust (craftsmanship-wise).

Did you have any problems with yours initially?

That was the old Milltek exhaust. They have since changed the exhaust to version 2 with new tips and correct fit. I didn't have to change anything to mine. It bolted up beautifully. It really comes down to this: are you will to put up with a lot more noise for a few more ponies? If so, go with the Thermal. If you want your car to stay quiet and still gain some performance go with Milltek. The looks thing is personal preference, plus with version 2 and the new tips, the Milltek looks great IMO.

[piaadoll]

derrick said it all for me..as we bought our millteks the same time....the installers told me the fitment was perfect and they had no problems....i didn't need any custom brackets or what not..

i've been meaning to put a sound clip for days!!! i really love the deep subwoofer like tone...it doesn't sound stock at all - but relatively close. had i done it over again, i still would chose a milltek..

(i had a clunking noise that we thought was the exhaust, but it turned out to be my suspension - that's a long story in itself)

but i have to hand it to the thermal though - the packaging is great, the piping and tips looks so pretty...but a little too droney for me taste.

[Crazy Quattro]

Originally posted by Jeff
I think the Milltek is one of the best sounding exhaust I have heard. Stock-like in sound level, with a slight rumble. However, with all the Millteks I have installed (including on VW's), their quality and fitment is pretty horrible. Only thing "Stainless" and shiny is from the muffler and up, everything else is standard "steel" pipes, with welding spots. Fitment wise, you always have to either have the pipes rebent, or have something cut or tweek. Personally, I do not like the "rolled tip" look, but some like it.

As far as the Thermal is concerned, it is absolutely one of the most beautiful exhaust systems I've seen. From the DP gasket, all the way to the muffler tip, it is SHINY and polished to the last detail. Their tips do stick out a bit, but it is ok for me. Soundwise, it is one of the DEEPEST and LOUDEST exhausts I've heard (from the 3" DP). I have the Street version of the exhaust (which has silencer cones on the muffler that lower it about 4-5dB), but the car still drones and resonates. Awesome sound, just not for everyday commutes. Turning up the radio with the windows down often cure that. :)

-Jeff


Miltek is full stainless steel, who cares if the whole thing isnt highly polished. Only thing people see or care about is the muffler and tips, which miltek are highly polished.

IMO

[Matt Devo]

I disagree on the thermal looking better, because 99% of the time all you see are the tips, and the rolled Milltek ones look much nicer than the thin-walled thermal from the rear of the car. Plus the Milltek tips are adjustable so you can have them stick out as little or much as you want.

[piaadoll]

Originally posted by Crazy Quattro
Miltek is full stainless steel, who cares if the whole thing isnt highly polished. Only thing people see or care about is the muffler and tips, which miltek are highly polished.

IMO

i agree!!! when neoprufrok rich had his thermal installed (i had my milltek installed right before him) i couldn't help but be jealous of how pretty his entire piping was...everything was polished...

then i realized, how often do i look under my car anyway?? [:D]

[MSAR]

I got my Milltek Front Track two weeks ago. The fitment was perfect, and the sound is awesome. Definitely the best choice for those who don't want a loud, droning exhaust.

[astris]

Thanks for all the input. I definitely don't want any droning. I like the quite sound of my A4 (I used to drive a truck and a car, both with Flowmasters). Looks like I will be going Milltek. I would like to hear some clips of both the Thermal street and the Milltek though...

[piaadoll]

random thought: your curb rash is exactly like mine. [:D] we should start a secret society. [:D]

[G_A4]

i have milltek and very happy with it... [:D]

[astris]

Originally posted by piaadoll
random thought: your curb rash is exactly like mine. [:D] we should start a secret society. [:D]

Ha Ha! If we can have a secret handshake I'm down!

[A4 - Oh Snap]

You guys can rub rims. :P

[A4NCAR]

Originally posted by hotreel
I cant seem to make up my mind on which exhaust to go with. After searching the threads ive come up with very mixed reviews on both of them. My main concern is sound and performance. Is the thermal exhaust too loud? Does it sound at all ricey? And how does the milltek sound? Anybody have any sound clips of it? And is it worth the extra $$$. I definitely want one of the two and just need to decide. If anyone can give me some input it would be greatlt appreciated? Thanx in advance

I'm no exhaust guru. But I have had three of them on my A4 and have heard/seen others too.


First; those two exhausts are at opposite ends of the exhaust spectrum with regards to sound/noise, interior drone, pipe size/flow, performance, as well as design/build.

Second; sound and looks are VERY subjective.

Third; there are good experiences and bad experiences within the same brand of exhaust.

Fourth; what is "good sounding" and what is "too loud" to you?


That said, my choice is MTM of course, because I think it is the best of all worlds; performance, tolerable sound levels inside/out, build quality and looks. But that's mucho denaro. So if you want to keep your cost down, but get the best of both worlds (i.e; sound and performance), then the two you picked are not very comparable for that since they are quite different. The Thermal Race has bigger pipes and thus better flow most likely, but also much more noise/sound. It's pretty loud from what I have heard mentioned by owners. But again, sound is very subjective. Some want the noise level to be loud, while others prefer less (especially with regards to interior noise/drone). The Milltek has smaller pipes and isn't as loud sounding. Two very different exhaust systems.
There have been many documented fitment issues with Milltek exhausts on A4/S4 B5/B6. I recall one where the customer had numerous issues with fitment and even ended up sending it to Milltek in the UK, and yet it still had problems even after they returned it. And then some others say theirs fit perfectly. Same with APR. I had one and it was horrible in everyway. It fit poorly and even grinded against the driveshaft. I heard from someone else who had it as well and they also had similar issues. Yet some others with it said it was fine. I also had the GHL and that had fitment and quality control issues, as well as intolerable drone, so I returned that one as well. I didn't care for either of them and my view of aftermarket exhausts was looking grim. Then I decided on MTM's exhaust. Couldn't be happier. It offered everything I wanted in an exhaust; tolerable sound levels (especially inside), performance/flow (full 70mm [2.756"] pipes, OEM like fitment, heavy-duty build quality and polished rolled tips. Even w/o a DP, it still felt like the flow was as good, or better, then the full 2.5" GHL w/ DP. APR was a 2.5"/2.25" system and was noticeably reduced in power/torque when compared to the GHL. So consider that the Thermal Race is a mix of 3"/2.5" & 2.25" I think. And the Milltek is a mix of 50mm/60mm. That's not very big (Neuspeed is a full 60mm system). So as I said before, the Thermal and Milltek are at opposite ends with sound and performance, so it doesn't make it easy to choose/compare as they are very different exhaust systems.
I have heard from some Thermal Race owners that it is pretty loud. One person wanted to get something else because it was just too "drony".

One sure way to help you decide is to find somone local to you with either one and go check it out in person.

[astris]

Originally posted by A4NCAR
One sure way to help you decide is to find somone local to you with either one and go check it out in person.

This is exactly what I plan on doing before I make the purchase (which is a while from now). I like everything about the Thermal, but from the clips I have heard it is too loud and drony for me. I have had MUCH louder exhausts, but I like the quietness of my A4. I have not heard the Milltek, but people say it sounds great. The problem is I want the size and performance of the Thermal, but the sound quality of the Thermal. Also, MTM is way too expensive for me.

Still looking for sound clips of the Thermal street and Milltek. Anyone have some?

[bugzy]

Originally posted by astris
Hey Bugzy,

You still selling your exhaust? Will it fit FWD? What are you getting next?

depending on how i like my new custom exhaust ... haha .. if its not tolerable, might just keep the milltek and mod it for the S4 rear bumper

otherwise im selling the milltek

but no, it does not fit the FWD

[piaadoll]

dayam, too bad you're in miami cuz we norcalers have all of them on a b6..neuspeed, apr, milltek, thermal, and custom...except for an MTM and we're all about hmmmm within 20 or so miles from each other.

[A4NCAR]

Originally posted by astris
This is exactly what I plan on doing before I make the purchase (which is a while from now). I like everything about the Thermal, but from the clips I have heard it is too loud and drony for me. I have had MUCH louder exhausts, but I like the quietness of my A4. I have not heard the Milltek, but people say it sounds great. The problem is I want the size and performance of the Thermal, but the sound quality of the Thermal. Also, MTM is way too expensive for me.

Still looking for sound clips of the Thermal street and Milltek. Anyone have some?

I've had my share of loud exhausts. I quickly grew tired and annoyed by them in my A4 though. I wanted to hear the "quietness" of my car, not the drone. I always prefered all polished SS exhaust systems too, but realized I didn't have to have that either. Things change.

Getting an exhaust to have sufficient pipe dia. for performance gains and yet be relatively quiet [inside] is the difficult task faced by exhaust makers. But that is not what most are trying to accomplish. And most would tell you that it is impossible to make an aftermarket exhaust based on performance without becoming louder. But based on my personal experience, MTM has proven otherwise. Once I have their DP/CAT installed, it'll be an even more amazing exhaust sytem.

[292]

I just ordered the Thermal Race yesterday. I will let you guys know what I think when I get it and have it installed. I didn't really think I was gonna get the exhaust until I saw the price at Eurocodetunning.com
Mike

[astris]

Originally posted by A4NCAR

Getting an exhaust to have sufficient pipe dia. for performance gains and yet be relatively quiet [inside] is the difficult task faced by exhaust makers. But that is not what most are trying to accomplish. And most would tell you that it is impossible to make an aftermarket exhaust based on performance without becoming louder. But based on my personal experience, MTM has proven otherwise. Once I have their DP/CAT installed, it'll be an even more amazing exhaust sytem.

Yeah, I love the quietness of my A4. That MTM setup you are going to have sounds awesome. I don't even want to know the total price of everything. Where did you get all your MTM stuff from?

You have to post some sound clips when the exhaust is finished.

[hotreel]

[dayam, too bad you're in miami cuz we norcalers have all of them on a b6..neuspeed, apr, milltek, thermal, and custom...except for an MTM and we're all about hmmmm within 20 or so miles from each other.]


yeah, there is nobody down in my area with anything...that ive heard of. Theres is one in pines which is 1 1/2 hours from me. So it kind of blows. I think im going to go with the milltek but i'm not sure i want to spend that much... but the mod bug has bit me and i need to do something about it [:D]

[piaadoll]

Originally posted by hotreel
I think im going to go with the milltek but i'm not sure i want to spend that much... but the mod bug has bit me and i need to do something about it [:D] [/B]

do it do it!! it's so worth the money! i had a slow wallet when i bought my exhaust, but i'm so glad i went milltek!

[:D]

[Devious27t]

i just drove the labree motorsport test car with their custom downpipes and sebring exhaust, they will producing downpipes for B6 S4s with or without highflow cats... the one that i drove had both center resonators and high flow cats and made 360 to the crank on the dyno on monday i will post the sheet when i can get ahold of it.... and pics of the system. the car stock i believe dynoed in the low 330s. car sounded absolutely incredible.... could feel a noticeable increase over stock

[A4NCAR]

Originally posted by astris
Yeah, I love the quietness of my A4. That MTM setup you are going to have sounds awesome. I don't even want to know the total price of everything. Where did you get all your MTM stuff from?

You have to post some sound clips when the exhaust is finished.

The other good point is that I can be flooring it and the noise outside will be minimal - good for being stealth from you know who.

So, that'll be it for my turboback exhaust system. A full 70mm with a HF 100 cpsi CAT matrix will be plenty for my needs an dfuture turbo upgrade. I have planned it for a while now and very satisfied with my decision. If I didn't have MTM for their exhaust, I wouldn't know what to get.

I still have to see how the HF CAT matrix works (CEL and emmissions). But I think it'll be fine. Yeah, don't ask the total price. It's too scary. [eek]
I have dealt with all of the MTM dealers in NA. I bought MTM products from Anderson Motorsports and Ikon Motorsports, but I'd highly recommend contacting Micheal at Ikon for any MTM needs/questions. Avoid Avalon Motorsports at all costs.

2TouchA4 on AW was supposed to have a sound clip. Not sure if that ever came about though. Maybe Ikon has it. I want a good quality sound recorded though if I'm going to do that. Most recordings don't sound accurate, and then you have the sound HW/speakers of the PC. It's not a good way to base a decision.